A Planet Cannot Recover After a Lavoid Attack

[Kyronea]

I never said that, however, you're wrong about the Day of Lavos causing it. The Mother Brain series is just prone to becoming rogue, as suggested by CC. In CC, Belthasar built FATE off a Mother Brain design. FATE was supposed to protect humanity, yet it later decided that it wanted to become a God, or a new creature, hence it also went rogue. And supposedly, Belthasar had installed a protection method to control FATE from the problem that Mother Brain faced, sadly it still failed (this is from the discrepancy in the game that stated that Belthasar installed the Prometheus Circuit in FATE to stop it from getting the flame, whilst Lucca is also stated to have created a Prometheus Circuit to stop the Mother Brain series from going rogue).
So basically, Mother Brain isn't crazy, but has advanced so much that she does what she wants/knows/analyzes and uses logic with.

Incorrect. FATE was intended to go rogue in the manner that it did. Belthasar planned all of the events of Chrono Cross including everything the FATE computer system would do. Furthermore, not all Mother Brain A.I.'s are presumeably identical...they may have a base core set of programming and systems but each one would be customized to the specific facility needed. A Mother Brain designed to oversee a factory would not work for, say, a hospital.

It's true, they're hungry, but they're still sustained. As for the seed, I always thought that it was Melchior's seed and that according to the game, it has the power to heal the world. So even though it may take time, it's giving the people a hope to live, and in time, it should save the world again.

It's the very fact that it is Melchior's special plant that it grows at all...nothing else would grow. Again, there is nothing to suggest it would continue to survive, and you keep forgetting about the Mother Brain and her intentions...she would wipe them out sooner or later.

True, but Lucca doesn't know and cannot guarantee that the people will be born. People who died in 1999AD may now have kids with people that they never would have, hence the descendants would change.

I fail to see why this matters at all. Those people born after the Day of Lavos are miserable people who never had true lives worth anything, whereas the people born in the new future are happy.

My bad.
However, if the planet is still alive, Mother Brain's plan can still be completed if she exterminates the Lavos Spawn, and then lets the planet recover for her dream.

...her dream is for a new nation of steel--or a country of iron, take your pick--and has nothing to do with the Planet itself or any organic life. The robots can survive on the dead husk of the Planet and thus have no need for its survival. They intend to eliminate all organic life so they have the dead husk to themselves.

Furthermore, she never wanted to do anything with the Lavos Spawn; that was a quirk of the North American translation.

No, a single tree could not save the world. Later generations of trees (they multiply, see...) could, maybe, but I think the situation was already too bad for that.

Exactly. Even taking into account the magical properties of the seedling, there just is not enough genetic diversity for it to survive many generations even if the Mother Brain was not intending to destroy it along with all traces of humanity.

[Zaperking]

Incorrect. FATE was intended to go rogue in the manner that it did. Belthasar planned all of the events of Chrono Cross including everything the FATE computer system would do. Furthermore, not all Mother Brain A.I.'s are presumeably identical...they may have a base core set of programming and systems but each one would be customized to the specific facility needed. A Mother Brain designed to oversee a factory would not work for, say, a hospital.

FATE was intended to go rogue, because they knew it would go rogue. Belthasar planned it because he had some kind of power to foresee everything (that or he used FATE's program that could trace parallel dimensions and calculate how things would turn out).
Secondly, you're wrong. The game already stated that FATE was built directly off the old mother brain circuitry.

 [Ghost]
   FATE is a large-scale
   prototype, completed
   in the year 2300.
  It integrated the old
   Mother Brain computer
   circuitry into a more
   powerful super-computer.

So the game already implies that FATE will go rogue, as it's based off the old Mother Brain series.

I fail to see why this matters at all. Those people born after the Day of Lavos are miserable people who never had true lives worth anything, whereas the people born in the new future are happy.

You don't know that. In 2300 AD, after Crono and co came, the people had hope. They might have been able to restore the world, especially with the seedling.

...her dream is for a new nation of steel--or a country of iron, take your pick--and has nothing to do with the Planet itself or any organic life. The robots can survive on the dead husk of the Planet and thus have no need for its survival. They intend to eliminate all organic life so they have the dead husk to themselves.

If the planet was dead, then how do you expect them to get resources, oils, etc. From all the fumes that they would be producing, sooner or later you'd have too many CO2 emissions, and acid rain, and then the world would be inhospitable to everything.

Exactly. Even taking into account the magical properties of the seedling, there just is not enough genetic diversity for it to survive many generations even if the Mother Brain was not intending to destroy it along with all traces of humanity.

No, a single tree could not save the world. Later generations of trees (they multiply, see...) could, maybe, but I think the situation was already too bad for that.

 [Young Woman]
   But the Queen ordered me to burn this
   sapling I received from the Guru of
   Life.
   
   He said it was a magical sapling, with
   powers to cure the environment.

I don't know why you keep going against the game data. Game DATA > What you say. If the game states that it has the power to heal the environment, then it has the power to heal the environment.
And you're saying that just because it has magical properties, it can't survive? Like WTF? That's exactally the point. Because it has magical properties, it can do what ever because it is magical. Its not an ordinary seed that needs pollination. Heck, it could reproduce asexually or just clone itself.

Wha..? How could Lucca built a Prometheus circuit? She had nothing to do with the creation of the Mother Brain series, as far as we know. And Mother Brain was, quite simply, crazy. Actually, corrupt is a better word to describe her right now.

Lynx:
   Contact with the Flame
   healed your young body.
   But that was not all...
   Once the security card
   system was rebooted, it
   would only grant access
   to you...the '"arbiter."'
   You can't imagine the
   trouble this caused the
   FATE computer system in
   achieving its objective.
   Inside of FATE, there was a
   stand-alone circuit that had
   been kept hidden since the
   old Mother Brain generation.
   That circuit was designed to
   start a malfunction, or more
   precisely, a '"rebellion."'
   
Lynx:
   Who would have thought that
   such a small bug, a '"traitor,"'
   could exist inside of FATE?
   That hidden circuit was based
   on the initial Ashtear model
   circuit board, with extra logic
   added by another scientist.
   FATE itself did not realize
   that this circuit was present
   within the core of its system.
   Or, more correctly...
   ...the circuit was programmed
   so that the moment FATE did
   detect it, it would erase all
   record of its detection.

 If you haven't played CC, or didn't pay attention, you need to read up at least on the script -.-

Lucca, knowing the future and how Mother Brain would go rogue, created the original Mother Brain circuit board, and in it she created a "Prometheus Circuit" that would act as a safety device should the computers AI ever go against it's programming.
Belthasar, in the future got this circuit board, and used it as the model for FATE. Later on, it's lead to believe that Robo existed in the future and Belthasar asked him to become the real Prometheus Lock that would stop FATE from gaining the Frozen Flame as a part of Belthasar's plan.
However, because it went rogue, it just shows again that the whole Mother Brain series is just flawed, regardless of what precautions are used.

[Kyronea]

FATE was intended to go rogue, because they knew it would go rogue. Belthasar planned it because he had some kind of power to foresee everything (that or he used FATE's program that could trace parallel dimensions and calculate how things would turn out).
Secondly, you're wrong. The game already stated that FATE was built directly off the old mother brain circuitry.

 [Ghost]
   FATE is a large-scale
   prototype, completed
   in the year 2300.
  It integrated the old
   Mother Brain computer
   circuitry into a more
   powerful super-computer.

So the game already implies that FATE will go rogue, as it's based off the old Mother Brain series.

No, it doesn't. FATE was built off of the Mother Brain A.I. because the Mother Brain A.I. was already partially sentient and FATE was intended to work for thousands of years...many millennia. You need a sentient computer to be able to keep that up.

FATE never truly went rogue so much as FATE went rogue in the way Belthesar intended it. In otherwords, he programmed FATE so that it would do what he wanted. It never truly went rogue in the way you're talking about. If it had then all of Belthasar's plans would have been for naught.

You don't know that. In 2300 AD, after Crono and co came, the people had hope. They might have been able to restore the world, especially with the seedling.

I don't, eh? So am I supposed to presume the world in 1999 A.D. is some sort of horrible place where no one can be happy? Furthermore, you're missing the point: it is precisely BECAUSE of Crono and friend's actions they had hope to begin with, and later their version of the future was erased. They couldn't have hope without Crono, and Crono would never have stopped half-way in defeating Lavos, so your point is completely and totally moot.

If the planet was dead, then how do you expect them to get resources, oils, etc. From all the fumes that they would be producing, sooner or later you'd have too many CO2 emissions, and acid rain, and then the world would be inhospitable to everything.

The robots don't require an atmosphere...given the technological capabilities of the robots they probably would have modified what was left to be whatever they needed it to be. As for how they gain resources, that I don't know. I do, again, point out that the Mother Brain is insane, and it's possible she did not fully think it through, given her insanity.

Of course, it's also possible that they could have mined asteroids and other bodies in the Chrono solar system. We know the people of 1999 A.D. had space travel, or else the images of Lavos could not have been captured: it was through a satallite.

 [Young Woman]
   But the Queen ordered me to burn this
   sapling I received from the Guru of
   Life.
   
   He said it was a magical sapling, with
   powers to cure the environment.

I don't know why you keep going against the game data. Game DATA > What you say. If the game states that it has the power to heal the environment, then it has the power to heal the environment.
And you're saying that just because it has magical properties, it can't survive? Like WTF? That's exactally the point. Because it has magical properties, it can do what ever because it is magical. Its not an ordinary seed that needs pollination. Heck, it could reproduce asexually or just clone itself.

Ah yes, because it's magical it can do anything.

No. The environment cannot live if the Planet itself is dying. What atmosphere there is that remains breathable is most probably due to the Planet itself because there is no vegetation anywhere in the world capable of maintaining the oxygen required. When the Planet dies, there is no longer an environment to cure or restore. And it is but one seedling...regardless of how it would reproduce it just does NOT HAVE THE GENETIC DIVERSITY. Genetic diversity is not just about numbers, it's about different DNA and sets of DNA existing. Cloning would especially result in a complete breakdown because you'd be making a copy of a copy of a copy...eventually degredation would lead to destruction.

I also find it amusing that you're arguing about game data when THAT SAME GAME DATA TELLS YOU THAT THE PLANET IS DYING AND CANNOT RECOVER. I'm capitalizing my words here in the hope you'll actually be able to understand them.

However, because it went rogue, it just shows again that the whole Mother Brain series is just flawed, regardless of what precautions are used.

It's actually quite possible the base system of the Mother Brain is flawed, but then we only have two examples of this:

1. A computer that goes insane and corrupted after the destruction of the world.
2. A computer that has existed for over ten thousand years, was merely based on the basic A.I. of the Mother Brain, and was intended to do exactly what it did in the first place, and unlike the previous example had no intentions of destroying all organic life, merely creating its own species instead.

Zaper, tell me something: what created the Gates? Why would the Planet create the Gates and use Crono and friends if not to save itself? What point is there in the entire journey if it will recover? I am asking you to please answer this because it is extremely relevant.

[Magus_Brokenhart]

Personally, I believe the planet would recover after millions of years. In real life, life is very resilient. Earth has been bombarded by meteors many times, about five of them close to the size of the comet that destroyed the dinosaurs. Life has been 95 percent extinct before (No, not because of the meteor. There was a case of world volcanism.), and it always recovers. Heck, there have been bacteria found in long dead ocean salts, and brought back to life after millions of years...So yeah, life, the planet, would be very resilient. Besides, it is unclear what the entity truly is. Some people say the planet, others say Schala, and others claim it is the player, since it was a side quest, and other Square games have done something similar. If it is the planet, I don't think it would want the balance of nature disturbed by Lavos. New life will eventually turn up, but it won't be the same.

[Kyronea]

Personally, I believe the planet would recover after millions of years. In real life, life is very resilient. Earth has been bombarded by meteors many times, about five of them close to the size of the comet that destroyed the dinosaurs. Life has been 95 percent extinct before (No, not because of the meteor. There was a case of world volcanism.), and it always recovers. Heck, there have been bacteria found in long dead ocean salts, and brought back to life after millions of years...So yeah, life, the planet, would be very resilient.

Completely irrelevant. We are speaking of the Chronoverse, not our own reality. Use the information in Chrono games. The Planet is alive, as a spiritual and biological life form. Lavos has been sucking away that life for over 65,000,000 years, and the Day of Lavos attack is essentially the fatal blow. While it takes some time for the Planet to die completely, the Planet will die.

Besides, it is unclear what the entity truly is. Some people say the planet, others say Schala, and others claim it is the player, since it was a side quest, and other Square games have done something similar. If it is the planet, I don't think it would want the balance of nature disturbed by Lavos. New life will eventually turn up, but it won't be the same.

It is the Planet. The bevy of evidence--including the retranslated original Japanese script, which is much closer than our own censored version--points to it being the Planet over any other explanation, especially taking Chrono Cross information into account. The game states that the Planet is dying, and even if you do not witness the Fiona's Forest cutscene a shorter but essentially identical cutscene takes place in the main ending. If the Planet recovers, it invalidates the whole point of the game.

Will a shell be left behind? Sure, but it'll be a lifeless hunk of rock, and given that the Planet itself is what gives life to all other beings, without its spiritual energy nothing else organic can live upon it. As such, if the Planet dies, everything dies. End of story.

[Zaperking]

Will a shell be left behind? Sure, but it'll be a lifeless hunk of rock, and given that the Planet itself is what gives life to all other beings, without its spiritual energy nothing else organic can live upon it. As such, if the Planet dies, everything dies. End of story.

COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

The game never states that the Planet is spiritual.
We just know that it is conscious and would do anything to survive (and also has a lot of power like to drag in a whole city from another dimension).

Oh and btw, the CT world was based on our world (especially with Lavos mirroring the KT meteor). Because Lavos created an ice age, whilst almost destroying all life, it just shows that even if a bunch of things get destroyed, life flourishes again (after the ice age).

[Kyronea]

COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

Wrong, sir, wrong! Irrelevancy is determined by the information at hand! If I take information from the game it is not irrelevant, whether you deem it to be or not. I know you have a hard time understand the plot of this game and all, but please, you're not stupid, so don't act like you are.

The game never states that the Planet is spiritual.
We just know that it is conscious and would do anything to survive (and also has a lot of power like to drag in a whole city from another dimension).

I beg to differ. The game makes it quite clear in numerous occasions that spirituality is a fact of the Chronoverse...every living entity possesses a spirit and thus so does the Planet, unless you're trying to argue that somehow the basis of life on the Chronoverse Planet is somehow bereft of the spirit that everything it birthed has.

Oh and btw, the CT world was based on our world (especially with Lavos mirroring the KT meteor). Because Lavos created an ice age, whilst almost destroying all life, it just shows that even if a bunch of things get destroyed, life flourishes again (after the ice age).

Now see, this is irrelevant information, because whether it was based on our world or not--and I do agree it was--it does not change the theme of the game, nor does it change the stated facts. The Planet was dying and would not be able to recover, thus it saved itself via the Heroes of Time. End of story! Why else would it create the Gates?! You still haven't given me a plausible explanation. It makes no sense and contradicts the entire point of the game.

[Zaperking]

I beg to differ. The game makes it quite clear in numerous occasions that spirituality is a fact of the Chronoverse...every living entity possesses a spirit and thus so does the Planet, unless you're trying to argue that somehow the basis of life on the Chronoverse Planet is somehow bereft of the spirit that everything it birthed has.

Yet again, give evidence for it. What you just said came unbacked by any in game evidence. We have apparitions of Crono, Marle and Lucca in CC, but that doesn't mean that everything is born with a spirit, not that is the basis of life. You, my friend, seem to be mixing CT with FF7, where the planet does actually have spiritual energy that keeps the world in balance. CT does not have that stated anywhere. We know for certain that the planet is physical, and that there is an entity which is the planets consciousness. Anything about spirituality doesn't exist, except the Zealian belief in dreams and Zurvan, that when you die, you return back to the sea of dreaming, and Zurvan might aswell be the entity.

Now see, this is irrelevant information, because whether it was based on our world or not--and I do agree it was--it does not change the theme of the game, nor does it change the stated facts. The Planet was dying and would not be able to recover, thus it saved itself via the Heroes of Time. End of story! Why else would it create the Gates?! You still haven't given me a plausible explanation. It makes no sense and contradicts the entire point of the game.

In game, it was already stated what was going on, if you're so into the Fiona's Forest scene.
Supposedly the planets' consciousness was dying and was looking back in time to events where it wish it could change something, but couldn't, and this probably created some sort of rift in time and space, creating the gates. In the original timeline, nobody time travelled. The second time around, Crono and co did and saved the world. From the point Lavos is defeated, he isn't in the Earth anymore, so this time, if we went back to 1000AD at the beginning of the game, there probably would be no gate, otherwise there'd be a constant loop, and then Chronopolis couldn't appear without not existing in the future (because Crono and co have to go back to 2300AD to see the ruined time line to save the future).
Also, if the planet was dying, it'd already be dead from the start as it's being continues till the very end of time.

[Kyronea]

Yet again, give evidence for it. What you just said came unbacked by any in game evidence. We have apparitions of Crono, Marle and Lucca in CC, but that doesn't mean that everything is born with a spirit, not that is the basis of life. You, my friend, seem to be mixing CT with FF7, where the planet does actually have spiritual energy that keeps the world in balance. CT does not have that stated anywhere. We know for certain that the planet is physical, and that there is an entity which is the planets consciousness. Anything about spirituality doesn't exist, except the Zealian belief in dreams and Zurvan, that when you die, you return back to the sea of dreaming, and Zurvan might aswell be the entity.

Oh? How about Robo's comment about the Epoch focusing all of human spirituality? Or the number of comments about the Masamune possessing spiritual energy? Or the ghost of Cyrus? There is a definite spiritual aspect to life in the Chronoverse, whether you choose to see it or not.

In game, it was already stated what was going on, if you're so into the Fiona's Forest scene.
Supposedly the planets' consciousness was dying and was looking back in time to events where it wish it could change something, but couldn't, and this probably created some sort of rift in time and space, creating the gates. In the original timeline, nobody time travelled. The second time around, Crono and co did and saved the world. From the point Lavos is defeated, he isn't in the Earth anymore, so this time, if we went back to 1000AD at the beginning of the game, there probably would be no gate, otherwise there'd be a constant loop, and then Chronopolis couldn't appear without not existing in the future (because Crono and co have to go back to 2300AD to see the ruined time line to save the future).

I'm sorry, could you please rephrase this to actually mean something? All you seem to be doing here is stating game facts and what we've theorized when it comes to Chrono Compendium theorums.

Also, if the planet was dying, it'd already be dead from the start as it's being continues till the very end of time.

Where do you get this idea that it is alive at the End of Time? You've said this more than once but it means absolutely nothing. The Planet was dying as of 2300 A.D. and would likely die soon after that year. What little was left was being fed upon by the Lavos Spawn, as we can determine because there is no other food source available for them. Now, if you're saying it was alive at the End of Time because the Planet created the Gates, then you seem to be bouncing back and forth between theories. Half the time you state the Planet isn't the Entity but when it agrees with your ridiculous perception of the Chrono series you immediately seize hold of it and use it however you wish...not unlike so many other irrational debaters who know their argument is bull and is grasping at straws just to convince other people. (And if you're wondering how I know this, I've been reading up a lot of the debates here on the Compendium and I've noticed how often you tend to be this stubbornly thickheaded.)

In any case, your point is not a point. The Planet would presumeably be dead by the End of Time, since nothing exists there except for Gaspar, Spekkio, and the Gate links. It might not truly be the End of Time...after all, the retranslation states it to be the "Farthest Reaches of Time" which while it can mean the End of all Time, it might also mean something outside of time, somewhat like the DBT.

Once again, I question why the Planet would create the Gates if it would recover. Provide a plausible explanation please. You keep ignoring this question and you will prove your argument is baseless and nothing but a flawed perception of Chrono Trigger.

[Infinitus]

Maybe this specific planet would recover, but it wants to kill Lavos to prevent the Lavos Spawn from destroying other planets, which, for some unknown reason, wouldn't be not able to recover? The planet is protecting other planets?

[Kyronea]

Maybe this specific planet would recover, but it wants to kill Lavos to prevent the Lavos Spawn from destroying other planets, which, for some unknown reason, wouldn't be not able to recover? The planet is protecting other planets?

While I like the idea since I'm all for cooporation by all sentient life, I don't think that's what's going on here, mainly because nothing is ever stated that would suggest this other than the one-off badly translated line by the Mother Brain in the North American translation.

[Zaperking]

Oh? How about Robo's comment about the Epoch focusing all of human spirituality? Or the number of comments about the Masamune possessing spiritual energy? Or the ghost of Cyrus? There is a definite spiritual aspect to life in the Chronoverse, whether you choose to see it or not.

Robo's comment was different in the Japanese version. I brought that up about a year ago, and found out that his Japanese comment

Robo: Unbelievable energy!      ロボ「見たこともないエネルギー！      Robo: Energy such as I have never seen!
   As if the sum total of all the human      　　　まるで人間の精神力を、おそろしく         Just as though it has amplified the power of the
   spiritual power that has ever existed      　　　ぞうふくしたような……！！[END]         human spirit to a terrifying extent......!!
   were somehow being amplified...            

Human spirit (will) and spirituality is different.
Besides, we all know Epoch was built on a proton drive system as Belthasar stated in CC.
And then again, we can always argue that Epoch has a mind of it's own.

Where do you get this idea that it is alive at the End of Time? You've said this more than once but it means absolutely nothing. The Planet was dying as of 2300 A.D. and would likely die soon after that year. What little was left was being fed upon by the Lavos Spawn, as we can determine because there is no other food source available for them. Now, if you're saying it was alive at the End of Time because the Planet created the Gates, then you seem to be bouncing back and forth between theories. Half the time you state the Planet isn't the Entity but when it agrees with your ridiculous perception of the Chrono series you immediately seize hold of it and use it however you wish...not unlike so many other irrational debaters who know their argument is bull and is grasping at straws just to convince other people. (And if you're wondering how I know this, I've been reading up a lot of the debates here on the Compendium and I've noticed how often you tend to be this stubbornly thickheaded.)

I know that the entity is the planet, so I don't know what you're talking about.
What you don't understand is that the planet, like Lavos, transcends time. The moment Lavos is dead, he's dead forever unless there will be a continuous loop that would negate the effects of CC. Like wise with the planet, because it transcends time, it it was going to die, it'd already be dead from a future perspective, and wouldn't be able to create the gates.
If anything, the gates were created to make sure that the human race doesn't end, or that maybe the planet will barely survive, but it will have no organisms on it, who knows.
We know from CC that the planet wept for all the fighting and loss of life, so the planet may have created the time gates to make sure the humans continue on (as they created it's most happiest memories).

Once again, I question why the Planet would create the Gates if it would recover. Provide a plausible explanation please. You keep ignoring this question and you will prove your argument is baseless and nothing but a flawed perception of Chrono Trigger.

I <3 your hypocrisies.

[Kyronea]

Robo's comment was different in the Japanese version. I brought that up about a year ago, and found out that his Japanese comment

Robo: Unbelievable energy!      ロボ「見たこともないエネルギー！      Robo: Energy such as I have never seen!
   As if the sum total of all the human      　　　まるで人間の精神力を、おそろしく         Just as though it has amplified the power of the
   spiritual power that has ever existed      　　　ぞうふくしたような……！！[END]         human spirit to a terrifying extent......!!
   were somehow being amplified...            

Human spirit (will) and spirituality is different.
Besides, we all know Epoch was built on a proton drive system as Belthasar stated in CC.
And then again, we can always argue that Epoch has a mind of it's own.

Fine, so Robo's comment is invalidated in that particular instance. it still does not invalidate the other examples of spirituality in the Chronoverse. Why are you so insistant on denying spirituality in the Chronoverse? Might it be that that you find such a thing distasteful? I don't see why. I'm an atheist and I love seeing spirituality in fiction...it helps enrich things.

I know that the entity is the planet, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Good for you. Stick to it then.

What you don't understand is that the planet, like Lavos, transcends time.

Not exactly. They can affect time, but they do not trasncend it. Lavos is a special case because he lives in his own Pocket Dimension, and as such experiences a different flow of time from the Planet. The Planet, on the other hand, lives inside the normal timeline.

The moment Lavos is dead, he's dead forever unless there will be a continuous loop that would negate the effects of CC. Like wise with the planet, because it transcends time, it it was going to die, it'd already be dead from a future perspective, and wouldn't be able to create the gates.

No. The Planet does not transcend time so your point is invalidated.  The Planet created the Gates in as it lay dying--whenever that period might have been, though most probably 2300--and died afterwards, from that point in time. Prior to that the Planet is still alive. Now, if the Planet DID transcend time, you'd be right, but unfortunately it would also disrupt the entire timeline...without the Planet living everything else would die off, and as such there would be no game. Thus the very fact this does not happen proves the Planet does not transcend time, unless you're trying to argue for a paradox.

If anything, the gates were created to make sure that the human race doesn't end

Invalid point. Being the mother from which all life upon it is birthed, the Planet might be able to recreate the human species. Even if it could not, it could create an alternative species.

, or that maybe the planet will barely survive, but it will have no organisms on it, who knows.

Now see, how is that different from the Planet being dead? See, you're starting to get it. With just a bit more we might crack that stubborn shell of yours and get you to admit the truth.

We know from CC that the planet wept for all the fighting and loss of life, so the planet may have created the time gates to make sure the humans continue on (as they created it's most happiest memories).

I find that unlikely at best, given how the Planet also pulled Dinopolis into its own timeline in order to fight against Chronopolis, a city of--you guessed it--humans. Furthermore, while I'm sure the Planet weeps for the loss of life, that does not mean that everyime a species is lost it needs to create a series of Gates and muck with the timeline. Obviously it did not do so for the Reptites, which is mildly confusing since the Reptites would eventually evolve a more symbiotic relationship with the Planet rather than humanity's tendency to rape the environment of its resources wherever humanity travels, so I don't see why it would do so for a species that harms the Planet and is the source of all of that fighting and loss of life it weeps for.

No, it created the Gates to save itself from death, because that is the whole point of the bloody game.

I <3 your hypocrisies.

Oh? I am hypocritical? Care to prove where I'm hypocritical, or are you just tossing out an insult because you know your argument is faulty?

[Zaperking]

Fine, so Robo's comment is invalidated in that particular instance. it still does not invalidate the other examples of spirituality in the Chronoverse. Why are you so insistant on denying spirituality in the Chronoverse? Might it be that that you find such a thing distasteful? I don't see why. I'm an atheist and I love seeing spirituality in fiction...it helps enrich things.

My point was that spiritual energy doesn't exist. It was a bad mistranslation/word usage for the aura being emitted from Lavos/Epoch etc. Gamers believe that the children in the Dead Sea are apparitions, as they look like children, and know what they shouldn't know. Cyrus is a ghost, so he's still in the physical world, like all ghosts. Heck, even Pokemon has ghosts. My point is that CT and CC never bring up an idea of heaven or hell, nor "the other side". So your point is irrelevant since your adapting it to our world. We only know that there is a belief in a place called Zurvan, where everything returns to (so all of CT is just a dream pretty much). I don't mind that whole motif with connected souls and ghosts stuck in the world until they are at rest, but from the games perspective, an afterlife is not ever mentioned.

Now see, how is that different from the Planet being dead? See, you're starting to get it. With just a bit more we might crack that stubborn shell of yours and get you to admit the truth.

It's very different from the planet being dead. Having no organisms doesn't mean the planet is dead. The robots can live on it still, the environment can recover, but humans will be gone, and mystics.
However, Mother Brain said that the planet WILL recover, and that humans could live on, but their hopelessness is stopping them, so Mother Brain will wipe them out for them.

No, it created the Gates to save itself from death, because that is the whole point of the bloody game.

Maybe. But then again, the planet might have survived, but not know it, as you said it doesn't transcend time.
And as the game stated, the gates weren't created to save itself, but it was dying and looking back. So we can assume that it caused a rift in time, and Crono and co took up the challenge to save the planet, we know that for sure.
Other than that, the planet is a bitch that could drag in a whole entire race and the energy of the other planet (hence probably ruining the reptite dimension), yet couldn't save itself with that same power. GG.

Oh? I am hypocritical? Care to prove where I'm hypocritical, or are you just tossing out an insult because you know your argument is faulty?

My argument may have errors, but it's just like yours. Plus, you're the one not accepting in game stated facts. If its stated, it's true. Otherwise I could just say that Crono and co were wrong in saying that Lavos was only absorbing DNA and genes to evolve, or that Marle isnt a princess (even though it's stated that she is).
If it's in game, it's undeniable. Mother Brain is stated to have decided to do what it wants, heck it has a powerful AI.
Because no character in the game said it was lying, or what it was saying was impossible, nor countered it, Mother Brains statement holds true.

[Kyronea]

My point was that spiritual energy doesn't exist. It was a bad mistranslation/word usage for the aura being emitted from Lavos/Epoch etc. Gamers believe that the children in the Dead Sea are apparitions, as they look like children, and know what they shouldn't know. Cyrus is a ghost, so he's still in the physical world, like all ghosts. Heck, even Pokemon has ghosts. My point is that CT and CC never bring up an idea of heaven or hell, nor "the other side". So your point is irrelevant since your adapting it to our world. We only know that there is a belief in a place called Zurvan, where everything returns to (so all of CT is just a dream pretty much). I don't mind that whole motif with connected souls and ghosts stuck in the world until they are at rest, but from the games perspective, an afterlife is not ever mentioned.

Where the hell did an afterlife even become mentioned? Spirituality does not have to deal with an afterlife, you know. Furthermore, ghosts are typically spiritual entities, and magic is usually spiritual in nature. Spitiuality is a part of the Chronoverse, again, whether you accept it or not.

It's very different from the planet being dead. Having no organisms doesn't mean the planet is dead. The robots can live on it still, the environment can recover, but humans will be gone, and mystics.
However, Mother Brain said that the planet WILL recover, and that humans could live on, but their hopelessness is stopping them, so Mother Brain will wipe them out for them.

Ah, we return to the Mother Brain...I guess you just couldn't accept that it was a corrupted computer program stating one line which is not backed up anywhere else in the game.

Maybe. But then again, the planet might have survived, but not know it, as you said it doesn't transcend time.

Most of the time, when one is dying, one will know it, especially a being as intelligent and spiritual as a freaking Planet. A Planet, given what it is, is most likely far more sentient than we are, and thus would be able to determine whether or not it is dying.

And as the game stated, the gates weren't created to save itself, but it was dying and looking back.

Yes, looking back and regretting what has happened over the course of 65,000,000 years of its life and thus seeks to change it.

Other than that, the planet is a bitch that could drag in a whole entire race and the energy of the other planet (hence probably ruining the reptite dimension), yet couldn't save itself with that same power. GG.

Retrieving a large city/tower structure and all beings within it, plus a second moon are not equivalent to destroying an entity with as much power and ability to affect time as Lavos. If the Planet could have simply plucked Lavos and tossed Lavos aside, the Planet would have done so, so please don't bring this argument up, because it just makes you look foolish.

My argument may have errors, but it's just like yours.

No, it's not. Your argument is flawed, faulty, and incorrect. My argument may have a minor error or two(and if it does I will seek to correct those errors) but is otherwise based in logic and fact.

Plus, you're the one not accepting in game stated facts.

Bullshit. You're the one denying the fact that the Planet is dying and/or already dead! I'm the one trying to argue from game facts! You are referring, no doubt, to the Mother Brain line, which was the whole basis of this thread to begin with. I again point out that the line is contradicted by other game evidence and was stated by an insane, corrupted computer program. We cannot simply accept every single line if game evidence later says otherwise, because if we did that we'd have loads of contradictory information, not just in this game but in many, many games. Think about how often a party speculates about something early on and later turns out to be wrong. Case in point: the party speculates about Lavos being the source of all Gates at the Tyrano Lair Ruins just before heading to 12,000 B.C. for the first time. Obviously, this was wrong. Similiarly, the Mother Brain is wrong. See my point?

If its stated, it's true.

Not always, as stated above.

Otherwise I could just say that Crono and co were wrong in saying that Lavos was only absorbing DNA and genes to evolve, or that Marle isnt a princess (even though it's stated that she is).

Faulty logic.

If it's in game, it's undeniable.

Then both Lavos and the Planet created Gates. Sephiroth is not a clone and is a clone. Cloud is a Soldier First Class and also a grunt. Ect ect. Faulty logic.

Mother Brain is stated to have decided to do what it wants, heck it has a powerful AI.

So does Robo, and Robo has lived for at least 100 years longer than the Mother Brain, and is not corrupted.

Because no character in the game said it was lying, or what it was saying was impossible, nor countered it, Mother Brains statement holds true.

Ah, I see, because no one questioned what she was saying right at that moment, it must mean it is true, despite later game evidence stating otherwise, not to mention the entire point of the game. Once again: faulty logic.