Question: Fall of Guardia

[Silencher]

Under 'Overwhelming Force' in the Fall of Guardia page, it says at the end that Magus would have no motivation to be involved with the Fall of Guardia. I haven't played Chrono Cross recently, though I plan to, but I think that statement is at least partially false, and here is why.. keep in mind I haven't played CC for a long time but I've been reading the pages about the plot so if I'm missing something let me know.

Why would Magus want to participate in the fall of Guardia?

-Well, assuming that there was help from outside the flow of time, why could it not have been Magus? If it was part of Belthasar's ultimate plan to separate Schala from the Time Devourer, I think Magus could and would help participate in the destruction of Guardia, he's already started an entire war with the kingdom just to get revenge against Lavos(Chrono Trigger). He certainly wouldn't have any qualms about killing Crono and Marle if it meant getting his sister back, in my opinion. So let's assume Belthasar recruited Magus to help with the destruction of Guardia.. that combined with an overwhelming force would explain how it fell and would help explain how the Porre army could contend with Crono and Marle's might, from a gameplay standpoint. The real question would then be if he did help with the fall of Guardia, where is he now? But that's obviously unanswerable and away from the point of this post.

Thoughts, comments...?

[ZeaLitY]

Well, no doubt he would stop at nothing to get his sister, but the primary issue is the attitude change Magus went through. After Trigger concludes, Magus goes through sort of a rebirth. He readopts a human appearance, charming and mysterious personality, and gentlemanly carriage. This is best shown in Radical Dreamers, which is admittedly not in the main canon. However, this portrayal of Magus certainly is at least in these qualities I've mentioned as shown by the character Guile. This isn't spoiling anything for Cross, but Magus was going to be in the game as Guile as a playable character. However, they dropped him but kept Guile as a new character after they decided it'd be too difficult to represent Magus's story in the game. Guile, nonetheless, is the same as Magil (Magus in Radical Dreamers) -- he is interesting, intelligent, good-natured, eloquent, and prone to having a bit of fun. The characterization is Radical Dreamers is a tad darker, but the base essence is there, as exemplified by this quote:

Even for a guy like me, I'm taken aback by his looks. His hair sways in the
moonlight, as his piercing blue eyes survey the environment below.
His beauty is different than a woman's... there's some sort of a fierce,
intrepid quality about him.
He is truly... a beautiful person.

This is when Serge knocks his mask off in one of the extra scenarios of RD, and one of the crowning points in the post-Trigger history of Magus.

So the chief problem with Magus ruining everybody's stuff in 1005 A.D. is Magus's newfound attitude in life after finally exacting revenge upon Lavos. In the main canon, we still have nothing to go on since Magus does not appear in Cross. However, the Guile husk strongly suggests that they were going to maintain the idea of Magil.

[AuraTwilight]

Plus I doubt Magus would kill the guys who helped him beat Lavos, personality change or not. He has some sense of honor, however twisted.

[Chrono'99]

Plus I doubt Magus would kill the guys who helped him beat Lavos, personality change or not. He has some sense of honor, however twisted.

I partially disagree. I think he does have some sense of honor, but only because of the "personality change." Before the change, he lied to Ozzie when he said he wanted to create a world of Mystics. He used him.


Anyway, Silencher, there are two things (in addition to what Zeality said) that sort of go against your theory. First, the mysterious long-haired guy that we see in the Fall of Guardia cutscene doesn't look like Magus. He's long-haired, but he (well, his shadow...) has a fringe and some peaky hair locks on the forehead, unlike Magus who would have a less peaky and rounder head because of his widow's peak. Also, the hand that steals the Masamune has no glove unlike Magus. Of course, these details don't definitely disprove your theory, but they kind of make it less likely. The second thing which goes against the Magus theory is Lucca's message to Janus in her letter to Kid:

   I'm not the slightest bit
   worried about you, Kid!
   I know that, no matter what
   happens, '"he"' will always be
   there looking out for you!

   Or perhaps he has already
   found you and is there by
   your side as you read this?
   If so, hello, Janus!
   Please take good care of
   my '"little sister"' for me!

If Magus had caused the Fall of Guardia, I don't think Lucca would speak to him in those terms...

It's still remotely possible that Magus did cause it (he could have sneaked, walked in the shadows, teleported, etc. so that Lucca never actually saw him in the battles), but it's rather unlikely.

[Sentenal]

I think the problem your (Silencher) idea has, is that Magus is in contact with Belthasar to help him out with his plan to free Schala from the Time Devourer.  That in itself is next to impossible to prove.

You are assuming someone of Magus' power would have had to be present in the Porrean army to fight with Crono and Marle.  We do know that the Masamune was somewhat involved with the Fall.  Perhaps whoever stole the Masamune was the outside force that caused Guardia's fall.  I doubt Magus would have taken up a Blade that was especially effective against himself, and then killed his friends with it.

From a gameplay point of view, Crono and Marle were powerful.  They aren't invinsible, and I just don't see Crono charging a line of Muskets with a sword and a few bolts of lightning.  He can't fight a war by himself, so assuming Porre required someone, or something, to equal Crono's power in order to defeat Guardia is unfounded.

[Magus_Brokenhart]

Well, if Magus did have a rebirth, it was very basic, because he's still cold at the end of the game.  I also think that he'd sacrifice nearly anything in order to be with his sister again. I think he hand that grabbed the Masamune did have gloves on though...Anyways, i've posted this silly theory before...Magus would be able to touch the Masamune with gloves on. Somehow the Masamune absorbs Magus' evil, purifying him, and contaminating itself. This would clarify his mind, returning him into "Janus", which would result in his repentance. Lucca would know this and forgive him. This is where he could or could not be Guile so that he can hide from Porre so that he does not have to side with them anymore. Anyways, I got a question, does anyone know what year Lucca died in?