Final Fantasy 12

[Kyronea]

It's disgusting. No one is going to walk around like that all the time, and certainly not an entire race. It's a sexist insult, especially to video gamers because it treats us as nothing more than horny teenagers. It's no wonder there are still so few female gamers...when game companies insult them like this, it's just incredibly disgusting.

[Mystic Frog King]

Ashe and Balthier were the only two real high points to the game. I loved their voices, the quality of the voice acting, and their characters.

Everyone else can take a hike, especially Fran...for some reason she disgusts me. Maybe it's the voice actress...or maybe it's just my own personal distaste for how video games always dress females in as little clothing as possible.

Strange, for me it's the same but with Fran and Ashe swapped round. Ashe's just a meaningless plot device; and her voice acting and personality sucks. Fran's only real good points are the VO and the fact that she's a Viera, though.

I'm not entirely sure what to think about the clothing- often wearing less clothing is seen as being closer to nature. An example is seen in the bible when Adam and Eve symbolically forsake God and the Earth when they eat the fruit of the tree and put clothes on- however, that's the optimist and FF fan in me speaking. The cynical part of me is inclined to agree with you =/

[Kyronea]

I could actually buy that as a plausible explanation...it hadn't occurred to me. Still, if that was their reason, there should have been a line of dialogue somewhere explaining it. As it stands it looks more like Square simply wanted to play to the horny teenagers...they've done it before with Final Fantasy X-2...and don't forget about Tifa's ridiculously excessive bust size in Final Fantasy VII...completely ignores what an athletic bust size actually looks like...

[Mystic Frog King]

I could actually buy that as a plausible explanation...it hadn't occurred to me. Still, if that was their reason, there should have been a line of dialogue somewhere explaining it. As it stands it looks more like Square simply wanted to play to the horny teenagers...they've done it before with Final Fantasy X-2...and don't forget about Tifa's ridiculously excessive bust size in Final Fantasy VII...completely ignores what an athletic bust size actually looks like...

Well, TBH I hadn't actually thought about it until now: but you bringing up the subject of Fran's clothing really made me think about it, I guess.

I haven't actually played X-2 and I don't think I want to- I've seen some of the FMVs and it's a load of rubbish about dancing. Also, the new 'Paine' character is a joke, and they completely destroyed Spira with all this crap about sphere hunters and 'New Yevon'. 'One thing at a time'? WTF? That isn't Yevon at all. Well, anyway...

As for Tifa, I didn't really notice that, mainly because the models in that game are a joke and she's never the focus in the CGs. In Advent Children though... Yes, you are very, very right =[

However, I don't think the characters are the main problem in FFXII, even if most of them are there just as plot devices/filler characters. No, I have two main issues with FFXII: the grinding, and the storyline.

Firstly, the grinding. I'm 20 hours into the game, done 2 lengthy periods of grinding so for, yet I'm about 5 levels behind what I'm supposed to be at. I mean, WTF?! I don't even make a point of avoiding battles, either. In fact, I enjoy them. Or rather, I did, before I fell behind in levels and each battle with a bog-standard field enemy became a chore. It's as if everytime they let you return to Rabanastre they let expect you to do absolutely tons and tons of grinding. That's just stupid. I understand that they have a nice new battle system and all, but they should at least include minigames etc. as part of the main quest too.

FFVII's Midgar section was one of my favorite sequences in gaming, mainly because of the variety of things I had to do, from cross-dressing to minigames to going into the ShinRa building. In FFXII there is, literally, nothing to do except grind and fight. The side quests are a joke, as they merely involve more fighting. Anyway...

The plot, is also rather poor. Now, I like the places and events and the way it all fits together in a political sort of way, but there's no main goal. Let me elaborate: In FFVII, you're chasing Sephiroth. In FFX, you're praying in the temples. That isn't all there is to it, but no matter how much random crap happens, you're still working towards one objective. In FFXII, though, something happens, you go through some dungeons and bosses and then you go back to Rabanastre. The plot goes all over the place, and although they do, in a way, have a focus on defeating the empire, you don't feel like you're working towards that goal at all.

And another thing: Balthier is a sky pirate, not a guardian or a fellow member of AVALANCHE. His motivations in helping you get increasingly worse until he goes to find out about Nethicite with you for no bloody reason at all. Poor, Square-Enix, very poor.

[Kyronea]

Final Fantasy XII plays far too much like an MMO without the interaction between players. I played EverQuest extensively for a few months before I tired of it because that's all it ever is...grinding levels here and there.

The inability of the game developers to let players know about special thing inside the game like the Zodiac Spear also bothered me, as well as the fact that the chests are randomized. While it's nice to see reappearing chests, you rarely get anything decent out of them. Also, it's massive. That wouldn't be a bad thing except there's almost nothing to do in these massive areas except wander around fighting enemies.

Overall, it's a single-player MMO, with about as much of a story and plot as your typical MMO: in other words, not much but mindless exusess to romp through various dungeons. It's pointless, stupid, and I'm selling my copy on eBay.

[Rydis]

Final Fantasy XII plays far too much like an MMO without the interaction between players. I played EverQuest extensively for a few months before I tired of it because that's all it ever is...grinding levels here and there.

The inability of the game developers to let players know about special thing inside the game like the Zodiac Spear also bothered me, as well as the fact that the chests are randomized. While it's nice to see reappearing chests, you rarely get anything decent out of them. Also, it's massive. That wouldn't be a bad thing except there's almost nothing to do in these massive areas except wander around fighting enemies.

Overall, it's a single-player MMO, with about as much of a story and plot as your typical MMO: in other words, not much but mindless exusess to romp through various dungeons. It's pointless, stupid, and I'm selling my copy on eBay.

In that sense, all games are pointless. Its a matter of having fun. Alot of people like dungeon crawl grinding games.  All MMO are like this, the ever popular diablo's, Neverwinter Nights, dungeon seiges.  Hell most FPS games fit into this category minus the ability to level up.

[Sentenal]

I don't see game companies making women wearing revealing clothing, or having large busts to be an insult at all.  It's called catering to your target audience.  As in, males.  If there were more female gamers, you would probably either see less of that, or more, I dunno, men with their shirts off?

Regardless, people want to like what they see in their games.  I don't want a fat, no chest zombie as a female lead character.  I would want a female lead who is attractive.

[cupn00dles]

Yeah, you don't care, and that is why you keep responding in rather long posts.

You see, if you'd strictly stick to what is actually written in my posts, you'd likely be able to reply them in a manner that has something to do with them. If one would quite pay attention to this -

Just because your post triggered my reply, it doesn't mean that such reply is about your post. In fact, there is absolutely nothing in it to make someone think so. Really, I find myself unable to see why the hell would you believe I give a batshit about your posting deslikes.

-- One could pretty much notice that what I do not care about are your posts deslikes. Now, what I do care about is when people recreate topics that already exist, what is most literally expressed in my previous posts.

I mean, normally when people DO care, they just blow it off.

That's absolutely true, and is mostly expressed by all of my posts concerning the recreation of topics that already exist.

And not only that, but in both of them, you make yourself look like a complete, condescending ass.

Too bad No kidding, Sherlock.

WAHHH I have to type things more than once!!!  Deal with it.

I do so most times I post in a recreated topic.

Too bad, Sherlock.

Yeah, because you don't care about this at all.  I mean, why else would you dedicate so much thought into two posts.

I don't really know. Actually, I can't even see how those lines are supposed to have anything to do with that "Too bad, Sherlock." quoted above it, if they were ever meant to.

why else would you dedicate so much thought into two posts.

That's incorret. I was just fooling around. And still am.

I don't give a shit about what you think about making other topics.

Too bad, Sherlock.

If I want to make a topic about something, I'll make the damn topic.  You can cry about it all you want.

I guess that's rather implicit, anyways.

[Kyronea]

I don't see game companies making women wearing revealing clothing, or having large busts to be an insult at all.  It's called catering to your target audience.  As in, males.  If there were more female gamers, you would probably either see less of that, or more, I dunno, men with their shirts off?

Regardless, people want to like what they see in their games.  I don't want a fat, no chest zombie as a female lead character.  I would want a female lead who is attractive.

We have so few female gamers precisely BECAUSE the game companies try to reach a target audience like this, and frankly it's been turning me off of their games too. I don't have a problem with attractive female leads, but if you're going to have one, make it realistic! Stop catering to this idiotic media idea of what makes someone beautiful or sexy! It's pissing me off.

[Rydis]

I don't see game companies making women wearing revealing clothing, or having large busts to be an insult at all.  It's called catering to your target audience.  As in, males.  If there were more female gamers, you would probably either see less of that, or more, I dunno, men with their shirts off?

Regardless, people want to like what they see in their games.  I don't want a fat, no chest zombie as a female lead character.  I would want a female lead who is attractive.

We have so few female gamers precisely BECAUSE the game companies try to reach a target audience like this, and frankly it's been turning me off of their games too. I don't have a problem with attractive female leads, but if you're going to have one, make it realistic! Stop catering to this idiotic media idea of what makes someone beautiful or sexy! It's pissing me off.

I hardly see how ashe was unrealistic when comparied to other games. There are just as many unrealistic males as there are females, so I dont see how that is a issue at all.

[Kyronea]

Aye, there are, and that certainlyu is a problem, but my main focus is the latent sexism inherent in these depictions of women in video games. It's like saying "Hey, guess what, women? You're nothing more than sex objects to gamers!" It's no wonder that despite being somewhat mainstream video gaming is still looked down upon...this is one reason why.

It's an insult in the face of female gamers, AND many male gamers like me who would like to see female leads and female characters that aren't half nude everywhere. It'd also help if there were some stronger overall female characters. Too often we see them turn helpless in many situations where they should be able to escape and/or otherwise defeat the situation easily. It's sad.

I want realistic depiction of women. Men too, but women first, because it's much more offensive.

[Rydis]

Aye, there are, and that certainlyu is a problem, but my main focus is the latent sexism inherent in these depictions of women in video games. It's like saying "Hey, guess what, women? You're nothing more than sex objects to gamers!" It's no wonder that despite being somewhat mainstream video gaming is still looked down upon...this is one reason why.

It's an insult in the face of female gamers, AND many male gamers like me who would like to see female leads and female characters that aren't half nude everywhere. It'd also help if there were some stronger overall female characters. Too often we see them turn helpless in many situations where they should be able to escape and/or otherwise defeat the situation easily. It's sad.

I want realistic depiction of women. Men too, but women first, because it's much more offensive.

But this isn't restricted to games. Many movies (horror types mainly) are the same way. Yet it isn't looked down up on the same way. While I do find unneeded panty shots, large brests, whatever in bad taste, but do welcome it when it is appropriate, I dont think that is as big of a reason as you make it out to be.

Games like DOA Extreme beach volleyball and rumble roses xx are bad, and are bad because of the reason you stated.  But games like...pfft, I honestly can't name a game that is coherently bad with its women. Tifa from FF7 is the worst I can think of.

[Kyronea]

I find movies that shamelessly exploit women like that to be equally offensive. Any form of popularly enjoyable media that turns women into sex objects just to try and target a specific audience disgusts me. I hate it in video games; I hate it in movies, and I just plain hate it. It's stupid, it's wrong, and it shouldn't be done. Where are the mildly attractive women in games or in movies, hmm? Where are they? Because I can't find them anywhere, at least not in anything popular.

Hell, even Chrono Trigger disobeys this...consider how Ayla is shown in all art with barely any real muscle at all despite being far stronger than all of the men. Conversely, Lucca in Chrono Trigger is something I want to see more...a realistic depiction of a woman rather than an artificial one.

I've been talking about games specifically here because that's what we're focusing on: video games. Stop targeting the horny teenagers, video game companies, and give us realistic people, men and women alike. I'd like to see, for once, a hero that actually looks HUMAN.

[Sentenal]

@cupn00dles:  WAHHH I HAVE TO POST THE SAME THING MORE THAN ONCE!!!!!  And your post don't bother me at all so I keep replying to them 

Anyways.

Having more female gamers would be nice, but gaming companies would rather make what makes money.  And really, I'd rather not play a game with a 'realistic' attractive female, because the vast majority of females (and males) wouldn't fit the role of an RPG hero.

Is it sexist?  If I walk around campus here, I see girls in minishirts, tight fitting clothing, revealing clothing, and things like that.  Women, for whatever reason (blame society if you must), want to look attractive.  And some are incredible teases.

But what this comes down to, is that games are fantasy.  Fiction.  People want to watch what they like.  They want attractive characters.  They want characters that can do the impossible.  They don't want an ordinary woman who is mild in appearance.

This applies to men and women.

For example, take this:  I've never played a game where a fat man was the main character.  They are always fit, and most of the time, built very well.  Is this sending a similar message to men?  That they have to be the warriors, that they have to be built guys who run around and shoot eye lasers?  Why can't we get a more realistic male lead.  One who doesn't exericise, who sits on the couch all day and drinks beer?  Maybe he is fat.  Maybe bald.

But do we really want a character like that?

[saridon]

I have two main issues with FFXII: the grinding, and the storyline.

uhh what grind? use the golden amulet until you get the 2x EXP accessory and you should be far ahead in levels. if your grinding in this well thats just sad...

Ashe's just a meaningless plot device; and her voice acting and personality sucks.

her VA is actually pretty decent, she just sounds annoying all the time but considering her character thats not so much a flaw on the VAs side.
Vaan was the biggest meaningless plot device though unless he does something decent towards the very end of the game he doesn't do anything but be a clueless version of tidus.
 
XII was way too short for a FF and the plot development too linear, honestly since FF IX its been going down hill.