Author Topic: A Reminder  (Read 8039 times)

Ramsus

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2009, 02:04:24 am »
This time I'll be honest.

1. When it comes to religion/spirituality, what do you believe, if anything?

Nothing. I follow a stoic philosophy in the way I live my life, but I consider that neither spiritual nor religious.

Honestly, I only assume the guise of spiritual and religious belief in order to disarm others and put them at ease; however, my philosophical views on life usually resonate enough with typical "Christian beliefs" for most people to avoid asking me questions about whether or not I believe in God.

2. How did you come to believe it?

I never reasoned my way out of any such beliefs -- rather, I simply never had them to begin with. Spirituality and religion being more the sort of thing you feel rather than reason your way into, I'll probably never have any either.

3. Do your parents (or did they when alive) believe the same?

 No.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 02:19:28 am by Ramsus »

FaustWolf

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2009, 02:28:25 am »
Aww, and here I was with this cool vision of Jesus as a good ol' country boy, complete with fiddle. And walking into a Bob Evans.

I'm really interested in what all the new folks will have to say; I like the way the topic is set up because it lets you treat yourself holistically as opposed to forcing the respondent to frame his or her beliefs within a line of argumentation already in progress. It's sort of a "let's get it all out there" kinda thing.

KebreI

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2009, 02:54:14 am »
1. When it comes to religion/spirituality, what do you believe, if anything?
I would fit in to the agnostic field. I, unlike several people before me, do have faith and belief. I choose to put it in only two things though. Myself and my brother. I choose to think that what I, or my brother feels/does, is right even when I don't have hard evidence. I find faith very dangerous and don't give it to any one else, not parents/ friends/organizations/or religion. The kicker from being an atheist though is the fact that I don't know whats out there and many parts of the universe don't work they way we think so...I don't know and I won't choose.


2. How did you come to believe it?
As long as I can remember, I always thought the idea of the great sky bully was ridiculous. As for my faith, that was something I slowly grew into. I wanted a moral compass something to live by, but I felt that It was unwise to live by some one else's mindset, so I choose my own.

3. Do your parents (or did they when alive) believe the same?
My father is very stern Atheist/Objectiveist, and my mother bounced around from light Christianity, Buddhism, Paganism, and is now just a Spiritual person. I also had a kinda step mother in from the ages of 10-15, key years in ones life, who was a very casual Catholic.



Uboa

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2009, 05:22:13 am »
*shrug*  I put off homework this long, may as well put it off a while longer.

1. When it comes to religion/spirituality, what do you believe, if anything?

I'll have to overview my religious/spiritual history to fully answer this.  I started going to the Baptist church when I was 6 or 7 with some friends from school.  I took to the idea of a god, but I remember that even at my young age I had ideas about god that were contradictory to the church doctrine.  This disturbed me greatly, and I tried to see the god that particular overbearing institution wanted me to see for fear of my eternal soul's damnation (not joking).  I honestly could not, though.  I did believe in Jesus, in that I believed Jesus existed and walked the earth, and was possibly the son of god or something along those lines.  So, I connected with my Baptist friends through the idea of Jesus that I had in my head at the time, as I liked that idea better than the idea of god the church seemed fond of.

When I left the baptist church at the age of 11-ish (or, when my parents pulled me out of the church, rather) I visited a different "religious" establishment with my parents.  My parents were both pretty staunch atheists, and so we attended a mostly atheist congregation.  The focus of the congregation centered around a kind of "academic" and scientific worldview, if that makes sense, although as I grew in the congregation I found it to be far too academic and not very scientific.  Additionally, I still had this idea in my head that there was something else in the world, different from what they were fond of talking about.  Call it god, or a guiding force, or whatever.  This eventually led me to investigate Buddhism, and to try meditation, with which I did have some early success.  I had less success with Buddhist groups, who reminded me too much of the Baptists in terms of how many questions one was supposed to ask at the groups, which was none for whatever reason.  So, I continued with my own insight meditation practice.

I also had quite an appetite for spiritual literature.  My less-than-agreeable attitude towards Baptism and atheism, caused by that suspicion of something else that was not the Baptist god, led me to read a lot of books on Buddhism.  But I still was unable to find answers that jived with me.  This really troubled me!  I eventually gave up on spiritual literature altogether and tried to "logic" my way around the answers I was seeking in my spare time.  This worked to some extent, but really only led me to temporarily suppress my, I guess you could say spiritual, conflict.  Crazy, huh?  I don't hear about people like myself often; people like myself being people who absolutely cannot just move on from spiritual conflict, who can't just let it sit.  I often wondered if I was insane by any number of legal or psychological definitions.  

In time I came to find out I wasn't alone, because I guess people like myself have a way of finding one another.   I was found by another such individual, two individuals really, who were part of a more vast network of people like us.  The network fell under the heading of a particular group with a positive reputation for being both a refuge and a resource for the spiritually restless.  I jumped right in.  I was aware that I was not going to get another opportunity to figure this stuff out that felt as promising as this group did.  So, I met with some local individuals who all shared our interest on a weekly basis, and eventually traveled farther than I ever thought I would travel by car in order to meet with people from all over the world who were part of this network.

The meeting was far saner than I had expected, far saner than any outsider might be tempted to imagine.  It struck me as so odd while I was there, that nobody was doing voodoo dances around the fire, or something along those lines.  However, the meeting was far from a casual get-together.  I felt a definite pressure to get my ideas in order while I was there, really to get myself in order.  It became a continuous theme in my exchanges with a number of members of this group at and after the meeting.  "Is your house in order?," was what one woman, who was of great help to me, would ask me for the next year or so.

I think that once a person devotes so much energy to trying to make sense of these kinds of things, that person's life experience comes to resemble a path.  Any movement on the path begins to amount to advancement in the direction of trying to make sense of the problems that got the person on the path in the first place.  Deliberate or not, one is always walking on the path.  By the time I visited with the aforementioned group, I was definitely on a path.  I spent a lot of time deliberately on my particular path over the next couple of years after my connections with this group faded.  During this time I tried to make sense of the atheism my parents embraced.  I turned to numerous resources trying to just understand what it meant to be human, the most helpful of which happened to be anthropological documentaries and Native American philosophy.  I came to understand animal psychology to the point where I turned significantly vegan.  (For honesty's sake, I'm still not 100% vegan, but I'm consistently above 90%.)  I mentally toiled quite a bit on all of my experiences up to that particular time in my life, and tried to make sense of them in the light of any number of ideas about spirituality or god -- ideas coming from spiritual teachers and philosophers throughout the ages.

I can't say that I've found answers that would satisfy everyone or even just anyone.  Interestingly, though, I just recently began to see likenesses of my own path in teachings I had long struggled to make sense of.  I've come not to a belief, per say, but to an understanding that I can accept and work with.  

I'm also still on a path, though it doesn't look much like the same path I started out on.  There are many more things I hope to someday understand.

Anyway, it looks like I've managed to combine my answers to all three of these questions pretty well, so:
2. How did you come to believe it?
3. Do your parents (or did they when alive) believe the same?


Thanks for the thread necromancy, Faust.  I like your reasoning behind your decision as well.  Nothing wrong with putting all the cards on the table.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 06:51:30 pm by Uboa »

ZombieBucky

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2009, 11:06:32 am »
alright i guess ill do this.

1. When it comes to religion/spirituality, what do you believe, if anything?
well... ive seen no evidence of any kind of deity. theres books about them but i havent seen any proof that those things happened. a deity might be there but he hasnt shown himself or herself to me yet.
and even if this deity were to suddenly pop up in front of me and say 'Matthew, I am the Goddess Athena, goddess of knowledge and the city of Athens. Now that you know I am real, I expect you to kiss my toes like a good grovelling human.', why would i care? what has athena or any other god or goddess done for me? why should i care that they exist? they dont step into my life every single day. if they did that, i might not even worship them then. for all i know theyre just dudes or dudettes running around in funny clothes.
i guess thats called apathetic agnosticism or atheism or whatever.

2. How did you come to believe it?
i guess it started when my dad sat me down and started reading the bible. both my parents are christian, but different sects (mom is catholic i think, dad is protestant). both of them wanted me to read the bible, so i read it. one day i asked my dad if a miracle would ever happen to me, like it happened in the bible to other people. would i be able to part the ocean and lead my people to the other side? would i be able to see a burning bush? would i be greeted into heaven with a chorus of angels? dad said that if i was faithful to the book and to God's word, i would be able to see those things.
so i was.
for five years i was a model christian. i attended both churches each week. i joined the choir and was somewhat decent (that is until i hit puberty, then they made me leave). i was an alterboy for a while. i even got to read scripture in front of the church. i lived by the word of God and Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior, and i thought i would die by it. i wanted to be one of the chosen few.
and then my parents started fighting.
night after night, day after day, when i said my morning and evening prayers i asked God to make them stop and get back together again. instead of it getting better it got worse. mom would take her anger out on me and yell for no good reason. dad started drinking more. my siblings were out of control. finally, dad asked me who i wanted to live with until i was all grown up.
God said that love was eternal and that a man and woman should be together forever. that marriage was eternal, till death do they part. why was it ending? if what God said was true, he wouldve ended the fighting and kept them together. dad told me that God worked strangely and that mere mortals like ourselves could never comprehend him. my faith was shaken.
until i started liking guys.
man shall not love man! man must love woman! so why did i like guys? its against God's will!
thats when i figured... God has no will... because there is no God, that i can see. thats when it happened.
(wow that was long)

3. Do your parents (or did they when alive) believe the same?
hahaha. my dad and sister are protestant and my mother and brother are catholic. yeah i totally fall into one of those fields. :?
theyve tried to convert me though. it didnt work out well.
im pretty sure one time when they tried to 'purge me of the atheist demon within me' i took the bible they were holding, started reciting random verses, and tossed it in the fireplace. when they were like 'OH GOD MATT WHAT ARE YOU DOING' i was like 'its a book, theres more of it.' and walked away.
that was the best thing ever.

Truthordeal

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2009, 02:55:00 pm »
1. When it comes to religion/spirituality, what do you believe, if anything?

I believe in the Christian God, and that his son Jesus is the messiah. I don't believe that God wants to control every aspect of our humanity, so He gave us free will. We have the choice to do good or evil, or to just live our lives. I don't believe He hates gays, blacks or atheists. I don't believe He approved of slavery(since His chosen people were often taken as slaves). I don't believe He cares how you worship him, as long as you don't use His name to commit evil.

Suffering and death are the result of free will.

I don't believe religion is something to be taken lightly, but it's certainly not exempt from the lampooning or criticisms of the modern world. In fact, you'll hear me joke about the FCA tons of times, I'm sure, over the next four years.

Basically, if you live a moral life, whether you're a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or Jedi, you go to Heaven. If not, you go to Hell. In other words, Ronald Reagan goes to Heaven, Charles Manson goes to Hell. Simple as that.

2. How did you come to believe it?

My parents systematically brainwashed me from the age of 4.

No, but seriously, I've been a member of our family's church(Methodism) since I was a kid. When I got to middle school, I decided that religion and God were bupkis and weren't cool any more, so I became an atheist until about the tenth grade. Ironically enough, it was the DaVinci Code that got me on the path to being a Christian again. After about a year or so of living and thinking, I became convinced that the Christians did have it right after all.

Of course being an atheist for so long, I grew a bit of resentment for Christianity and a lot of their restrictions. I decided that if I became a Christian again, I wasn't going to worship some deity that hated everyone or wouldn't allow people into Heaven just for "getting it wrong", so I officially joined Methodism. Unitarianism is a bit too...enthusiastic for me, and Methodism's emphasis on doing community service really appealed to me.


3. Do your parents (or did they when alive) believe the same?


My father's not really a religious person(the reason we go to a Methodist church is because it was closest. You call it being lazy, I call it Divine Intervention). The Woman That My Father Married™ is some brand of Christian, don't really care. My father's new fiancee belongs to the church of the Nazarene.

My grandparents belong to the Southern Baptist Church, I think. Some form of Baptism. My uncle on my father's side is a Baptist minister, but he's also extremely corrupt so screw him.

My mother is an atheist or at least an agnostic, but she's lived in Oklahoma for three years now, so she didn't have a big influence on my regained faith. She and her side of my family tree, however, did have a huge impact on my tolerance of other religions and cultures.

I actually dated a Muslim girl in high school once. That's about everyone I can think of though.

FaustWolf

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2009, 04:55:59 pm »
Duuude, Truth, what was it like dating someone across stark religious boundaries like that? Were there any weird conflicts with her family or anything, or is it just that they were really liberal and didn't mind in the least?

ZaichikArky

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2009, 06:39:30 pm »
 My parents were both pretty staunch atheists, and so we attended a mostly atheist congregation.  The focus of the congregation centered around a kind of "academic" and scientific worldview, if that makes sense, although as I grew in the congregation I found it to be far too academic and not very scientific.

Ok, I don't really understand this. There is such a thing as "atheist congregations" ? I find this really unusual.

Otherwise, the responses in this thread have been very interesting. I'm just going to leave it at that for now...


1. When it comes to religion/spirituality, what do you believe, if anything?

I dunno, really... I guess I'm an atheist/agnostic. I believe in some form of spirituality, but I am interested in the religions that are self-improving and are more into nature and that part of the spiritual realm. Wicca is something that I could possibly be into. Also, some aspects of Hinduism and Buddhism. I guess I don't want to exclude the monotheistic god that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism share, but I'm very turned off by those three religions and most sects associated with them. Especially the Orthodox and other strict sects.

2. How did you come to believe it?

I never had a religious upbringing. My dad never believed in god, and I'm not sure if my mom believes in god. Maybe not. I developed the beliefs myself.While my dad doesn't believe in god, his side of the family is Jewish and I am most familiar with Judaism when it comes to the 3 major religions. I am hesitant to call myself a jew, even though dad says I am, because first of all, my dad's side is Jewish and in the strict sense, it goes by the dad's side. Secondly, I do not practice any of the religious things associated with Judaism. I don't keep Kosher or do any of that. What is interesting about Judaism, and unlike Christianity, is that people are also considered jews by race. So in that sense, maybe I am a Jew because half of my blood is Jewish.

Also, and important note is that my family is from the USSR (We immigrated in 1990) and the USSR was a pretty atheist country...

When I was  young, I went to Jewish day care camp because my parents both worked and needed a place to send me in the summer. I  apparently became "religious" and learned the Torah prayers and did them myself. My mom said she found it creepy that I was so into that since I was raised non-religiously.


3. Do your parents (or did they when alive) believe the same?

I think I already answered 3... I'm not really sure of what they believe in, if anything. We don't really talk about it. I'm pretty sure that dad doesn't believe in god and I'm not sure about mom. When I was little, I guess I got very sick and my mom took me to get baptized. My dad's side of the family was pretty pissed off, but mom was scared that I'd die or something, I guess XD; I think mom's mom may believe in god, not sure about mom. Religion is never a thing we talk about in my family.

Truthordeal

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2009, 07:10:44 pm »
FaustWolf, we didn't delve too much into it. We didn't try to proselytize each other, and we always respected each others ways of living. I understood that Friday nights were a big no-no, and while Sunday wasn't a big deal for me personally, she tried to work around it whenever possible.

I suppose they were fairly liberally Muslim, in that the women didn't wear burqas and the men didn't wear thawbs(I believe that's how you pronounce it). The parents accepted me, so they couldn't have been too fundamentalist.

The Woman That My Father Married™ was pretty skittish about me having anything to do with anybody outside of her white suburban circle, but she probably eventually got over it, maybe, but if not I couldn't care less.

Zaichik: Trust me, Wicca is nothing you want to get involved in. I'd rather be a Scientologist.  I'm tolerant of most spiritual matters, but I have absolutely nothing for these people. If you think that Fundamental Christianity is bad because it restricts behavior on the basis of morality, then wait until you see what kind of sick shit these people are into.

ZaichikArky

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2009, 07:47:11 pm »

Zaichik: Trust me, Wicca is nothing you want to get involved in. I'd rather be a Scientologist.  I'm tolerant of most spiritual matters, but I have absolutely nothing for these people. If you think that Fundamental Christianity is bad because it restricts behavior on the basis of morality, then wait until you see what kind of sick shit these people are into.

That is kind of judgmental. I don't know about what kind of "sick shit" they're into, but I've never heard of Wiccans doing anything sick. Everything is relative. A significant number of Christians do pretty sick things too "in the name of the lord". You very well know that.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I don't agree with saying Ronald Reagan will go to heaven. I really don't like him. I'm not sure why you chose him over other more noble Christian presidents. I was hesitant on starting another political argument, so I refrained on saying this before, but your Wicca comment was offensive.

I think I am interested in those "Coexist" bumper stickers a lot of people have around here. Comments like "Wiccans do really sick shit" are an example of why religious tolerance is one of the most important things we can do for this planet...

ZeaLitY

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2009, 08:13:28 pm »
I think I am interested in those "Coexist" bumper stickers a lot of people have around here. Comments like "Wiccans do really sick shit" are an example of why religious tolerance is one of the most important things we can do for this planet...

I laugh when I see those. Most religions represented by those symbols think the others are going to hell or condemned to suffer because they don't share the correct belief. Co-exist, indeed.

Truthordeal

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2009, 08:30:13 pm »
Ok, Zachik, you know me to not be a judgmental person. I don't pass judgment on something unless there is something seriously wrong with it. Rather than raise my ire, here are a few resources about it.

Wiccans believe that children should lose their virginity in a public ceremony...at the age of 13. By their mothers or doctors.

In fact, this rite can be done as early as ten years old.
   
Or if these are too blogged down for you, read the damn Wiccan Bible(1972) where they very openly advocate child molestation, human and animal sacrifices. Wiccan priestesses are little more than prostitutes.

I'm an extremely tolerant person, but something I do not, and will not tolerate is child molestation. If they want to kill each other, fine, less of them on the street.

And don't even try to compare this to Christianity. No where in the Christian Bible does it advocate prostitution or molestation in God's name.

Quote
On a somewhat unrelated note, I don't agree with saying Ronald Reagan will go to heaven. I really don't like him.

Fine, Barack Obama then. On another unrelated note "I don't like him" is a rather bullshit reason for condemning someone to Hell. Y'know who I don't like? Ulysses S. Grant for being a horrible general and an equally horrible president. That doesn't mean I think he should go to Hell.


     

ZaichikArky

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2009, 08:57:26 pm »

I laugh when I see those. Most religions represented by those symbols think the others are going to hell or condemned to suffer because they don't share the correct belief. Co-exist, indeed.

Yeah, I recall your opinion about those stickers and it pisses me off, but whatever.

Quote
Ok, Zachik, you know me to not be a judgmental person. I don't pass judgment on something unless there is something seriously wrong with it. Rather than raise my ire, here are a few resources about it.

Wiccans believe that children should lose their virginity in a public ceremony...at the age of 13. By their mothers or doctors.

In fact, this rite can be done as early as ten years old.
   
Or if these are too blogged down for you, read the damn Wiccan Bible(1972) where they very openly advocate child molestation, human and animal sacrifices. Wiccan priestesses are little more than prostitutes.

I'm an extremely tolerant person, but something I do not, and will not tolerate is child molestation. If they want to kill each other, fine, less of them on the street.

And don't even try to compare this to Christianity. No where in the Christian Bible does it advocate prostitution or molestation in God's name.

Actually, my bf taught me what a "straw man argument" was the other day, and you seem to be using one. I read those articles and this is what I gathered from that: some Wiccans advocate molesting their children, and most don't. You cannot judge a religion based on sick practices. Christianity has largely condemned homosexuality. I recall reading about Sodom and Gomorrah from the bible. Some angels got raped by men in one of the two towns, and then God let everyone in the town die except for this guy and his two daughters. Then the daughters decided to fuck their dad because I guess they wanted to proliferate the human race? Or something like that.  So if I were to be *more* judgmental about Christianity, I could say that that story proves this:

1. Homosexuality is strongly condemned in the bible and all homosexuals should die
2. The bible says that incest is ok.

Also, I didn't say you were a judgmental person in general. I said you were being judgmental. I am a very judgmental person in general and it's hard work for me to improve this characteristic...

Also, I did not imply that Reagan should go to hell. He definitely has his following. My dad's a huge Reagan supporter. He says that Reagan's largely responsible for Communism crumbling and us being able to move out of the USSR (dad really didn't like it there). I guess I wished you'd have picked some other Christian who wasn't responsible for spending bazzilions of dollars fighting communism, thereby putting us into a recession,  and allowing Afghanistan to be run by the Taliban because they "were better than the communists". Same thing for other countries which I can't recall, some in South America, I believe.

ZeaLitY

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2009, 09:25:58 pm »

I laugh when I see those. Most religions represented by those symbols think the others are going to hell or condemned to suffer because they don't share the correct belief. Co-exist, indeed.

Yeah, I recall your opinion about those stickers and it pisses me off, but whatever.

"And it pisses me off." Well, aww. I didn't direct that comment to you, even though I quoted your post, but it seems you take it personally.

ZaichikArky

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Re: A Reminder
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2009, 09:34:41 pm »


"And it pisses me off." Well, aww. I didn't direct that comment to you, even though I quoted your post, but it seems you take it personally.

It seems like you directed it to me because you quoted me, AND you have mentioned your hatred against that bumper sticker several times already. Also, you are further provoking me by acting patronizing. BTW, people being patronizing to me or others I like pisses me off more than anything. I hope you note that the next time you're patronizing to me.