Janus. What happened to him?

[Ralkai]

IN ENGLISH:

Well, everybody knows that Janus was abducted by a Time Gate and sent to the Middle Ages where he became Magus. But this was before Crono intromision in Zeal and before Janus returned Zeal as the Prophet. My question is: What happened to Janus after the "second" disaster? When Magus tried to defeat Lavos (being defeated him and being Crono killed), Was Janus sent again to the middle Ages?


IN SPANISH (if somebody understand this better...)

Bueno, todo el mundo sabe que Janus fue absorvido por un portal temporal y enviado a la Edad Media donde se convierte en Magus. Pero esto fue antes de la intromisión de Crono en Zeal y antes de que Janus volviese a Zeal como el Profeta. Mi pregunta es: ¿Qué le pasó a Janus tras el "segundo" desastre?, Cuando Magus intentó derrotar a Lavos (siendo derrotado él y muriendo Crono), ¿Fue Janus enviado otra vez a la Edad Media?

[Zaperking]

Yeah, it's a vicious cycle.

[Kyronea]

Eh...no. He was actually on the mainland with Melchior, but he was, to quote the Elder of the Last Village, "drawn into a black portal" which has been interpreted by many as Time Bastard in action.

So, it depends on how you see it. If you accept the theory of Time Bastard, then he ended up in the same place anyway and the other self that existed in the new timeline was erased.

If you don't, then he was still sent there, because he would have to have been in order to grow up and become the Mystic figurehead and eventually become Magus.

[Zaperking]

Eh...no. He was actually on the mainland with Melchior, but he was, to quote the Elder of the Last Village, "drawn into a black portal" which has been interpreted by many as Time Bastard in action.

So, it depends on how you see it. If you accept the theory of Time Bastard, then he ended up in the same place anyway and the other self that existed in the new timeline was erased.

If you don't, then he was still sent there, because he would have to have been in order to grow up and become the Mystic figurehead and eventually become Magus.

He wasn't on the mainland with Melchior. They were all in the Ocean Palace after Crono and co left. Janus ran in, began getting sucked by the portal. Melchior tried to save him, but he too was sucked into another portal. Schala couldn't do anything, and after the others were sucked in, she was sucked into one leading to the DBT.

[ZealKnight]

isnt simple logic that if he didnt go to the middle ages to learn magic he would suck. so he had to. besides its not like crono interfeared with janus's conflict with lavos in the ocean palace.

[Kyronea]

He wasn't on the mainland with Melchior. They were all in the Ocean Palace after Crono and co left. Janus ran in, began getting sucked by the portal. Melchior tried to save him, but he too was sucked into another portal. Schala couldn't do anything, and after the others were sucked in, she was sucked into one leading to the DBT.

Yes, he was. How else would the Elder of Last Village be able to tell the two people who awoke in the hut what happened?

You're thinking of the original timeline of events. That was Magus' memory, and would remain so under the theory of Time Bastard regardless of however many new Ocean Palace Incidents occurred.

[Ralkai]

So Janus was sucked by the Time Gate like if Crono wasn't been there? I had asked this because in the "second" disaster he wasn't in the room of the Mammon Machine... Or at least we don't see him.

[Kyronea]

So Janus was sucked by the Time Gate like if Crono wasn't been there? I had asked this because in the "second" disaster he wasn't in the room of the Mammon Machine... Or at least we don't see him.

Err...sort of.

Basically, Time Bastard is the theory that any new altered past self produced as a result of having one's own past changed---while one is a time traveler--will disappear and be replaced by the older self at the time of time travel. (Please note this is extremely simplified and the full theory is present here on the Compendium.)

To put this in perspective, let's take Janus' situation. In the Lavos timeline, he was present during the Ocean Palace Incident and was sent forward through time in to the era of the Middle Ages, where he grew up and became Magus. As Magus he was killed by Lavos when he summoned Lavos to his castle in 600 A.D.

In the new timeline created by Crono and friend's interference, Magus is sent back to 12,000 B.C. anywhere from a few months to a few days before the Ocean Palace incident--I like to think about two weeks is the amount of time--and became the Prophet, using his future knowledge to his advantage to try and defeat Lavos. The Gurus were imprisoned or banished and thus would not have been present. In this timeline, he would have been killed by Lavos during the new Ocean Palace Incident created by this altered timeline.

Now we take the timeline where Crono and friends appeared and interefered even more, the new Ocean Palace Incident as we have come to know it. In this instance, Magus survives through the good graces of Crono and friends, as well as his sister.

In this same timeline, Janus--Magus' younger self--occompanied Schala to the Village of Algetty, because she had heard Melchior had been freed and wanted to ask Crono and friends to stop her mother. (Remember that previously this would not happen as Melchior would remain on Mount Woe through the Ocean Palace Incident in the instance where Magus is the Prophet without Crono interfering.) Because Janus occampanied Schala, he then remained on the mainland with Melchior afterwards, as we know from the Elder of Algetty/Last Village.

Thus, he was never able to be present at the Ocean Palace Incident, and yet the Elder of Algetty reports that both Melchior and Janus disappeared into a "black portal."

We know the personal histories of Melchior and Magus do not actually change. He still reports the original Ocean Palace Incident in his memories to Crono's friends. Melchior does not disappear from 1000 A.D.

Therefore, what happened with Janus and Melchior? That black portal, as I said before, is taken by some--including myself--as an example of Time Bastard in action. The new versions of Melchior and Janus created through Crono's interference simply disappeared, replaced by the original version of both appearing when they did in the first timeline.

Hopefully this all makes sense. I recommend you read this article if it doesn't however, as it goes far more in depth on everything and should make everything clear:
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Principles_of_Time_and_Dimensional_Travel.html

[Ralkai]

Ok, thanks! I'll read that article (my God... It's enormous!).
I hope that resolves my doubts.

[satchel_dawg]

it's kind of interesting how when history is changed the planet automatically corrects the corresponding events with the new occurances. time is a rather unique thing.

[ZeaLitY]

Conservation energy, matter, time, whatever does.

[Kyronea]

Well it makes sense, Satchel...you change one event, and things happen differently. It's pretty much exactly how life works even with the normal passing of time.

For example, today at King Sooper's, among other items, I bought a chocolate--dark--bar. I could have bought a milk chocolate bar. Further down the line, the choice to buy the dark chocolate might inadvertently be the difference between my dying from a heart attack and surviving a heart attack, due to a minor difference in calories and food content.

So if someone wanted to kill me, they could go back in time and ensure, somehow, that I purchase the milk chocolate bar. Then the new timeline would occur where later I would die.

So it's not really the Planet changing time so much as it is different events occurring due to the different circumstances. It just seems odd because we view time in a linear fashion, as we are linear creatures.

[satchel_dawg]

well it seems so weard that everything that one person does can cause outcomes more powerful than imagined.
time travel indeed is a perplexing thing, it's a good thing no one can actually travel the space time continum. with that power at any persons hand there would be so many more problems in the world.

[Kyronea]

well it seems so weard that everything that one person does can cause outcomes more powerful than imagined.

Of course. Why wouldn't it? Imagine this scenario:

A person--known as X--lives in a time where a serious illness is almost certainly fatal. X catches a serious illness and dies. The bacteria  that infest the dead body eventually end up in the water supply, poisoning his whole village and killing almost everyone. The few survivors move away and never become involved with the village again. The village becomes a ghost town.

Time traveler Y travels to before X dies and gives X some antibiotics. X lives and his body does not infest the water supply. Everyone in the village lives and proceeds to do a vast number of things that alters the original course of events in many different places, potentially saving certain lives or dooming others, and most probably altering the timing of various developments, be it for the better or worse.

Time traveling can affect so many things. The smallest change can ripple into something far greater than one might possibly be able to imagine. Something as simple as stepping on a butterfly in 65,000,000 B.C. in our world could prevent the evolution of humanity.

time travel indeed is a perplexing thing, it's a good thing no one can actually travel the space time continum. with that power at any persons hand there would be so many more problems in the world.

Of course people can time travel. Time travel is not impossible; it just requires certain technologies and knowledge we do not possess, such as how to create and manipulate negative energy. In fact, it is quite possible that time traveling has altered out world. For all I know yesterday I was the son of extremely rich parents, but due to time travel altering something in the past of my parents I live the life I do now. I remember everything as things are now because that's how things worked out in this timeline.

[Zaperking]

[Woman]
   Dalton probably came to this village through the
   Sky Road when Sara-sama opened it.


 [Man]
   Jyaki-sama headed for the Sky Road to save
   Sara-sama.

Elder: At the time of the great disaster,
   something like a black distortion appeared......
   Bosch, trying to save Jyaki-sama, who was
   about to be sucked in, was also.....

Lucca: Black distortion......

   A Gate......

Robo: Black distortion......

   A Gate Lavos produced.

Frog: Black distortion......

   A Gate......?

Ayla: Black distortion?
   Thing Aylas came through?

Firstly, just because the Elder wasn't at the Ocean Palace doesn't mean he saw it. Many Zealians survived, and some escaped the Ocean Palace. For all we know, the Elder was told about it.
Second of all, The skybridge was opened up by Schala and Dalton, and Janus would have used it to get to the Ocean Palace. Regardless of even if it was closed after, Janus is hiding his powers, and to save his sister he would unleash them to get to the Ocean Palace. Melchior obviously followed suit. Gaspar and Belthasar, in the second timeline, we don't know, but they could have easily have gone there too. After all, the only guru that was imprisoned was Melchior, the others left by themselves and could have come back by themselves because they too wanted the Ocean Palace to cease.