How Does Serge Cause the Destruction of the Future?

[Loki Fenrisulf]

And that doesn't work out because the moment he went to Another World, it would have been doomed to be destroyed if he was going to live forever and one day turn into Lavos.

No, it would not. It only would if Serge lived there long enough to become Lavos, and he probably would have only went home if not by Lynx switching bodies with him. Body that FATE destroyed after unlocking the Prometeus Lock, transforming in that black machine thing.
The only possible problem would be that the future was still destroyed after Serge was in Lynx's body, but that can be anwered by: Lynx could also become a Lavos, but I doubt FATE would keep Lynx's body too if it was of no use anymore, just like it didn't keep Serge's, so probably Lynx would also die latter in the future of Another World, so neither would be able to create Lavos.

[Azala]

No, that's not how that sort of thing works, and I daresay they did have electricity, given that the Ocean Palace and all of Zeal bears a striking resemblance to a technological society, the only difference being that they use magic as their primary source of energy.

Furthermore, as I've repeatedly told Zaper, magic cannot just do anything you want it to do, or else it'd have been easy for Lavos to be magicked away without a need for Chrono and the gang. Magic has its own rules, its own limitations and capabilities...it's powerful, yes, but it is not something that can just violate everything and do absolutely anything it wants, at least not in the Chronoverse, since we've had no demonstration of magic's capability of doing that sort of thing.

Of course it has its limits1 I'm saying that perhaps the epoch runs off of MAGIC, not electricity. And as you know, you don't need wires and conductors for Magic. So if the Epoch is indeed magic-based, then there wuld be no difference if the ship were made out of another substance such as rock; all that would be needed would be a sufficient supply of Magic.

[Kyronea]

Sure there would be a difference, especially if the magic is just a power source and does not contribute in any other way, such as, say, holding the ship together when it does its thing to go through time, whatever that may be. (Though the effect seen suggest some sort of warping of space-time by the vehicle, possibly producing a temporary Gate for itself that extinguishes the moment the vehicle exists at its destination.) You need to construct such a vehicle out of particular materials...if the magic does not hold it together or do anything besides provide a power source, then the ship cannot just be built from anything.

In the Chronoverse, magic is not some sort of separate entity...it is simply the manipulation of an existing type of energy, Elemental energy, which is represented in four different ways, Sky, Water, Fire, and Darkness. (Or Lightning, Fire, Water, and Shadow...whatever you want to call them.) And because it is simply another form of energy, it does have to deal with all of the rules that all other energy has to deal with.

Of course, since energy and matter are the same thing, that brings to mind the question of the idea of Elemental matter...is it possible for something to be formed of Elemental matter? Or is that what everything is, as suggested by Spekkio?

[Zaperking]

And that doesn't work out because the moment he went to Another World, it would have been doomed to be destroyed if he was going to live forever and one day turn into Lavos.

No, it would not. It only would if Serge lived there long enough to become Lavos, and he probably would have only went home if not by Lynx switching bodies with him. Body that FATE destroyed after unlocking the Prometeus Lock, transforming in that black machine thing.
The only possible problem would be that the future was still destroyed after Serge was in Lynx's body, but that can be anwered by: Lynx could also become a Lavos, but I doubt FATE would keep Lynx's body too if it was of no use anymore, just like it didn't keep Serge's, so probably Lynx would also die latter in the future of Another World, so neither would be able to create Lavos.

If what you're saying is right, then tell me why Home World's Sea of Eden became the Dead Sea? The reason was simply put that there was potential for Serge to cause the destruction of the future. So by going on that logic, Serge going to another world should have had the same results.
And no, Lynx could not become Lavos. Nobody could become Lavos. Only Schala and Lavos could merge one day.

[Loki Fenrisulf]

We don't know if it had the same results in the Another World, because we can't enter the Sea of Eden there until after the Dead Sea become sea on the Home World - meaning Serge already changed his role in the future.
I don't get your point as to "only Schala and Lavos can merge". Both Lynx and Serge are exposed to the Frozen Flame, so it could have made them able to merge with Lavos latter.
You need to ask yourself also why can Schala and Lavos merge, after all. In my theory the reason is that Serge and Lynx touched the Frozen Flame. If the merging of Schala and Lavos was caused by Lavos itself, I see no reason why the Frozen Flame, a piece of Lavos, could not make others able to merge with him too.

[Loki Fenrisulf]

A little thing that completelly destroys the Armaggedon-Branch theory that I noticed while playing CC from the starte again...

When I was in Termina for the first time and spoke with the fortuneteller she spoke more than the little text people usually claim she said... In this extra bit, she clearly says that Serge was directly responsible for the destruction of the future, with emphasys on "directly", since she actually used such word, and this is alone the whole destruction of the Armaggedon-Branch theory, since it is based on the fact of if beign caused by him indirectly (the exact opposite).

[Chrono'99]

A little thing that completelly destroys the Armaggedon-Branch theory that I noticed while playing CC from the starte again...

When I was in Termina for the first time and spoke with the fortuneteller she spoke more than the little text people usually claim she said... In this extra bit, she clearly says that Serge was directly responsible for the destruction of the future, with emphasys on "directly", since she actually used such word, and this is alone the whole destruction of the Armaggedon-Branch theory, since it is based on the fact of if beign caused by him indirectly (the exact opposite).

Semantics for the dramatical effect.

[Radox Redux]

To me, the reason that Serge causes a bad future has always seemed incredibly obvious. Think about it:

1. FATE stops the denizens of El Nido from accessing mainland Zenan with the Records of Fate. Presumably to maintain it's own existance.

2. Then Serge comes along and touches the Frozen Flame. The Prometheus Circuit means that he loses control of the Records of Fate in Home World.

3. Now in this timeline who can say what part El Nido will play on the Day of Lavos? It seems simple to suggest that El Nido somehow intervenes and prevents Chrono and his gang from destroying Lavos.

Possible Refutations to this theory:

1. The Sea of Eden would have to change to become the Dead Sea as soon as Serge touches the Frozen Flame. However it was in that instance that Wazuki becomes corrupted, so it's not beyond possibility that his orders to kill Serge were obtained in that instance.

2. This theory assumes that Chrono and gang defeat Lavos in 1999 AD. However it is indicated that perhaps they did in the Dark Ages aboard the Black Omen, however this is incredibly vague evidence. Also, some people may say that because of it's reliance on 1999AD that the 'Armegeddon-Branch' theory is somehow more suitable. However that theory is IMHO ridiculous. Home as a past as well. It's simply a past that identicle to Another. The Chrono in that Home World's past would merely come out in Home World's Day of Lavos.

[TimeTraveller]

I agree with you. I like this simple theory much more than the Armageddon-Branch. In Chrono Cross we can see that 10 years caused a lot of small changes in the course of things in the two dimensions mainly because of the lack of the influence of Records of Fate. Who can say what other changes would happen in 900 years or more? Apparently, some of these changes were capable of causing the ruinned future.

I also agree that the Home Dimension must have its own past. If someone from the future of Home Dimension travels to the past, he must arrive on Home Dimension's own past. If it did not exist, this person would arrive in Another's past despite having departed from Home's future? I don't see how this would make any sense, so I really think that each dimension must have its own past, although identical ones.

Another point: some people may say that the ruinned future has a problem with the free will of Serge, since he can see that he will do something that will destroy the future. I don't think this is right. Looking at things with this theory in mind, we can conclude that propably it wasn't Serge himself that made any actions that would cause the ruin. The creation of a dimension where FATE was not able to control the Records of Fate was the real problem. Hence, anyone in Home Dimension was able to take some course of actions that would cause the destruction, not necessarily Serge himself. When Serge goes to the dead sea, he is actually travelling to the future, so he is seeing the results of the actions that other people along the history of the dimension had already done, not actions that they are going to do.

[Tiammat]

No offense, but... The theory about Serge being Lavos makes no sense to me...

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Since Dalton put wings to the Epoch, i believe that it is a machine like any other and not a magical device. It looks like a machine too.

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The theory already posted that Belthasar could not find necessary resources to do the Epoch don't convinces me. In Original Timeline, Lavos destructed the world, but Belthasar managed to find "parts" to the Epoch even in that bleak era. So, since Belthasar is such a genius (more even than Einstein), i believe that lack of materials was never a drawback to him...

It is indeed a theory that works, we only do not know if it's true... but as i said, i believe it's not...

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For now, i believe that the theory of the Dead Sea Article makes more sense... Since Serge split the timeline into two dimensions, the actions of Crono were all nulled in Home... Crono did those things only in Another... actions that did not got carried to the new dimension (Home) when it was made... Then, that bad future is the same as the future of the Original Timeline.

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EDIT:

Radox Redux, i believe your theory is very good...

1. The Sea of Eden would have to change to become the Dead Sea as soon as Serge touches the Frozen Flame. However it was in that instance that Wazuki becomes corrupted, so it's not beyond possibility that his orders to kill Serge were obtained in that instance.

I think this has an explanation... When Serge touched the Flame, he became its arbiter... Some years later, Wazuki kills Serge, then FATE regained control of the Records of Fate and of the minds of the El Nidians, preventing more aggression to the history and preserving the good future. What i mean is, the records of fate stayed deactivated for less time than it was needed to the El Nindians to influenece history deeply... In Home, FATE never regain control of itself, since Serge survives, then it never regained control of the minds of the El Nidians... hundreds of years then would have passed without El Nidians being manipulated, what would cause a huge distortion of the happennings in the world and somehow preventing Crono from fulfilling its purposes...

What do you think?

Time Traveler statement also makes sense... Home and Another have their own timelines, their own pasts...

[TimeTraveller]

I think this has an explanation... When Serge touched the Flame, he became its arbiter... Some years later, Wazuki kills Serge, then FATE regained control of the Records of Fate and of the minds of the El Nidians, preventing more aggression to the history and preserving the good future. What i mean is, the records of fate stayed deactivated for less time than it was needed to the El Nindians to influenece history deeply... In Home, FATE never regain control of itself, since Serge survives, then it never regained control of the minds of the El Nidians... hundreds of years then would have passed without El Nidians being manipulated, what would cause a huge distortion of the happennings in the world and somehow preventing Crono from fulfilling its purposes...

When I first read your post, it seemed a good theory to me. But then I started thinking...

In Chrono Cross, FATE does not only want to kill Serge. It needs to gain Serge's body to be able to access the Frozen Flame. Then it seems that only killing Serge does not solve FATE's problem, right? If this is true, then why did FATE try to kill Serge in the first place? If this is false and killing Serge solves FATE's problem, why doesn't it just try to kill him in Chrono Cross instead of doing all the body changing? I was unable to find an answer.

Another question is: what really prevents FATE from accessing the Records of Fate in Home? I first thought that it was because it could not access the Frozen Flame as a result of Serge being the Arbiter. But now I am thinking that this does not make sense: Another FATE does not have access to the Frozen Flame, still it's able to control Another's Records of Fate, but not Home's. What is the difference? The merely presence of Serge in Home would prevent access to the Records? I don't think so, if this was true then FATE would loose access to Another's Records when Serge arrived there.

[Tiammat]

Well, i can only think that by killing Serge, Lynx hoped to regain control of FATE... but that wasn't what happened... then, Lynx would have to think another way to regain control of FATE... then Serge appears from Home, giving another opportunity to Lynx...

But this indeed gives birth to a contradiction... If Serge died originally, than this means that FATE never regained control of itself originally, what left the El Nidians free to do whatever they wanted to do... this would change the future, as happened to Home... but as we know, Another future is good... Then, from this point of view, the theory of Radox Redux don't proceed...

About FATE not being able to access the Records of FATE of Home... Well, Home doesn't have a FATE, instead, it has the Dead Sea... The FATE of Another cannot control the Records of Fate of Home... at least i think... And as i stated above, Another's FATE doesn't have control of its own Records of Fate because it is locked...

EDIT: Remembiring that i support this theory above all others:
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Salt_for_the_Dead_Sea.html