Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)

[rushingwind]

I've read several pages here dealing with the differences between Schala and Kid, and how could they be possible if Kid is simply a clone of Schala.  Thanks to a newer branch of genetics, called epigenetics, we might be able to finally explain these differences, as well as Schala's change in appearance between the end of CT and the end of CC.

Epigenetics is a relatively new science that deals with modifications of cellular DNA expression that don't actually change one's original DNA at all.  These epigenetic changes are passed on in cell division, as well as the unaltered, original genetic code. 

Your epigenetic code is a 'second DNA'.  It sits right on top of your original DNA, and unlike the original, it can and will change during your lifetime depending on environmental situations.  In recent studies, identical twins of all ages and walks of life have had their epigenome compared with one another.  The older the twins are, the less epigenetic similarities they have, until they are extremely different in old age.  These changes occur because of environmental factors--smog and pollution, smoking, food, chemicals we are exposed to, even how we behave and act towards one another, ect. 

In fact, a calico cat named Rainbow was cloned.  However, her clone looks nothing like her, despite being a precise genetic copy (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1360161).  Why?  Epigenetics! 

More about epigenetics here:  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html

Shifting back to Schala and Kid, epigenetics would be a huge reason why Kid and Schala look (and perhaps even act) so differently.  When one considers the environmental conditions of Zeal, it was obviously a magical society.  Because Zeal expected its royal family to be well-versed in magic, and Schala performed magic on a regular basis, her epigenome would have expressed exotic, magical traits (like blue hair, especially if magical ability was located on the same gene as blue hair color) and suppressed traits that might be considered non-magical.  Also one should consider that she presumably lived a fairly comfortable life as a princess.

After being taken to the Darkness Beyond Time, she created a genetic clone of herself, Kid, and sent her into the world.  While Kid is genetically the same, she would not possess Schala's epigenome (unless Schala impregnated herself with her own clone, then carried her for nine months and gave birth, and even then Kid would only inherit a few epigenetic traits, not the entire epigenome).  And same as with the cloned cat mentioned above, Kid does not look much like Schala.  Kid's epigemone developed under different conditions.  Having not been raised in such a magically demanding environment, her epigenome would have no reason to express such strong magical traits at the exclusion of all non-magical traits (perhaps accounting for Kid's strength and agility, as well as her blonde hair and blue eyes).

At this point, magical ability appears to be genetic, and not epigenetic.   If it is genetic (as I tend to believe) and therefore present in all modern humans to some degree, then even though Kid has the same magical abilities of Schala, her environmental conditions have caused her epigenome to suppress most of these powers (since she is not even the strongest magic user in CC).  If magical ability is epigenetic (which seems unlikely, since magical ability is passed on to the next generation, at least in the case of the Zeal royal family), Kid wouldn't have Schala's powers at all, since her epigenome developed in complete independence from Schala's.

Another point worth discussing is Schala's change in appearance from CT to the end of CC.  We know that Lavos can absorb and change DNA.  Perhaps he did not change Schala's genome when he combined with her (a move that could potentially kill her), but rather edited her epigenome to make her more compatible to the combination process.  The change in her hair from blue to blonde, and her eyes from green to blue, is completely possible with the changing of the epigenome (since both hair color and eye color are genetic traits).

[ZeaLitY]

I've no knowledge to make a reply with, but I will say that I'll add this to the Kid / Schala common questions article in the theory section and announce it.

[Syao]

I was thinking about the difference in their personality, and I believe it to be merely a sign of upbringing.  While Schala was quiet and reserved, Kid was loud and boisterous, possibly to cover up the pain that she has had to deal with her whole life.  As is clearly illustrated, she has not had the easiest life.  I think that Kid's recklessness is supported by the explination that when she comes into peril that she is transported back to a safer place in time.  I don't remember who offered that explination, whether it was one of the Trigger kids on Opassa in the last segment or something else, but I do believe it's in there. 

Personally I don't know how much I support personality being dictated by genetics, and perhaps that explains my slant on this, but I do think that Kid's attitude and actions are quiet in keeping with her past, and in the same way I think that Schala's are in keeping with a childhood spent being somewhat frightened of her mother, and being raised in a very intellectually oriented society. 

As for appearance, I don't know how different Schala at the end of Chrono Cross looks from Kid.  Schala does look younger, but overall I think that they are relatively similar.  There is of course a massive difference between Akira Toriyama's artwork and Noboteru Yuki's, however I see it merely as artistic license I suppose. 

As for Kid's accent?  Search me, no idea.

Again, I'm not sure if this is the right place that I should debate this, and if not, please tell me, I'm just a bit confused about what goes where on these boards, there's a lot of sections, eh?

[satchel_dawg]

well also because kid is a clone, her personality from schala may be acting on a certain quality that schala never really showed or may have not even known about in her mind.

[rushingwind]

Personally I don't know how much I support personality being dictated by genetics, and perhaps that explains my slant on this, but I do think that Kid's attitude and actions are quiet in keeping with her past, and in the same way I think that Schala's are in keeping with a childhood spent being somewhat frightened of her mother, and being raised in a very intellectually oriented society. 

Oh yes, I do agree with you.  I think that Kid's personality is dictated by the terrible, harsh time she's had in the past, just as Schala's is dictated by her royal upbringing in Zeal.  I was merely suggesting it because there are some who believe that personality can be dictated by genetics--though I personally don't believe this to be the case.

As for appearance, I don't know how different Schala at the end of Chrono Cross looks from Kid.  Schala does look younger, but overall I think that they are relatively similar.  There is of course a massive difference between Akira Toriyama's artwork and Noboteru Yuki's, however I see it merely as artistic license I suppose. 

Artistic license is probably to blame for Schala's difference in appearance between Trigger and Cross.  But I can make all kinds of excuses because I like the pretty blue hair I'm a big fan of Zeal.   

well also because kid is a clone, her personality from schala may be acting on a certain quality that schala never really showed or may have not even known about in her mind.

Yes, exactly, even though I don't personally support the 'personality-comes-from-genetics' viewpoint.  If you are operating under the assumption that one's genetic code can influence personality, then epigenetic tags that activate/suppress individual genes would have a huge impact on personality.  Then the mental and magical differences between Kid and Schala could be completely attributed to the differences in their respective epigenomes. 

In other words, Schala always had the genes that would have caused her personality to be like Kid's, they were just never activated for one reason or another because of her environment in Zeal.  The same is true of Kid--because she grew up in a very different environment, different genes were activated by her (also different) epigenetic tags, and she turned out to be quite different than Schala.

But that's if you believe personality is dictated by genetics. 

I've no knowledge to make a reply with, but I will say that I'll add this to the Kid / Schala common questions article in the theory section and announce it.

Awesome!     Thanks! 

[alpha]

Dont forget ladies and gents that we are dealing with a magical clone and not a scientific one.. that changes the rules a bit

[Kyronea]

Dont forget ladies and gents that we are dealing with a magical clone and not a scientific one.. that changes the rules a bit

No it doesn't. There is no evidence that "magical" cloning would somehow be different than "scientific" cloning. And unless some comes up pointing to that, we should not assume that this holds true. That's a Zaperking fallacy.

[alpha]

ok if you deal with the fact that magic can bypass bend and in some instances break all normal physical laws... first off the clone was immediate. no cloning time in other words poof baby. Id say thats a significant change.

[Radical_Dreamer]

ok if you deal with the fact that magic can bypass bend and in some instances break all normal physical laws... first off the clone was immediate. no cloning time in other words poof baby. Id say thats a significant change.

It's a change in means, not ends. If I drive a car somewhere I get there faster than if I take the bus, but either way, I still get there.

[rushingwind]

ok if you deal with the fact that magic can bypass bend and in some instances break all normal physical laws... first off the clone was immediate. no cloning time in other words poof baby. Id say thats a significant change.

Yes, but also remember that Lavos has an intimate knowledge of the workings of DNA (and it's manipulation).  If Schala didn't already know how to create a clone, after being fused with Lavos she may have just 'borrowed' the knowledge (and knowledge doesn't always mean "using magic"--we honestly don't know how she created Kid, but just that she did).  And also, a clone is a clone, no matter how you slice it.  Kid possesses the same basic genetic code that Schala does.  If her DNA were any different (even a little bit), she wouldn't be a clone.  Simple as that. 

However, Kid's epigenome might possibly be changed by a magical creation.  The human epigenetic code changes naturally in our lifetimes, so it isn't inconceivable to think that a highly specific magic spell could edit/change/do whatever to it.  But even if this were the case, it would make Kid no less a clone of Schala than before--their base genetic code is still the same, and that's what counts when one is defining her as a clone.

[alpha]

that last bit is primarily what I meant

[Zaperking]

Dont forget ladies and gents that we are dealing with a magical clone and not a scientific one.. that changes the rules a bit

No it doesn't. There is no evidence that "magical" cloning would somehow be different than "scientific" cloning. And unless some comes up pointing to that, we should not assume that this holds true. That's a Zaperking fallacy.

If you're going to be picky about how you base your arguments, then you should stick to that fallacy consistently.
Anything but that is what brings junk into the Compendium.

Anyway, as Radical_Dreamer said, the magical cloning and scientific cloning is a change in ends.
However, I'd have to point out that it's stated that Kid is "Schala's daughter/clone". Hence this can imply two things.
Firstly, that Schala actually created Kid as a clone by impregnating herself and creating her via magic.
or
Two, that Kid isn't a fully copy of Schala.

Because it says that Kid is a daughter/clone, we can't assume that Kid is identical to Schala. After all, just because a girl has a mother doesn't mean their genes are exactally the same, half of the 4x chromosomes come from the father. Hence, if Kid is Schala's daughter/clone, then she should have probably something like 95% of Schala's DNA, but then she probably got some from Lavos too, after all Schala and Lavos were merging.

[ZeaLitY]

Firstly, that Schala actually created Kid as a clone by impregnating herself and creating her via magic.
or
Two, that Kid isn't a fully copy of Schala.

Or three, Schala magically created Kid in some other fashion. As you said, not being a full clone would mean Kid gets some of Lavos's DNA.

As nice as that sounds for fan fiction, it's a wonder she doesn't have spikes growing out of her face in that case.

[rushingwind]

However, I'd have to point out that it's stated that Kid is "Schala's daughter/clone". Hence this can imply two things.
Firstly, that Schala actually created Kid as a clone by impregnating herself and creating her via magic.
or
Two, that Kid isn't a fully copy of Schala.

Because it says that Kid is a daughter/clone, we can't assume that Kid is identical to Schala. After all, just because a girl has a mother doesn't mean their genes are exactally the same, half of the 4x chromosomes come from the father. Hence, if Kid is Schala's daughter/clone, then she should have probably something like 95% of Schala's DNA, but then she probably got some from Lavos too, after all Schala and Lavos were merging.

Hmm...  You bring up a very good point here.

If you hold that Kid and Schala remain separate people at the end of Chrono Cross  (as I do), this could be a perfect explanation.  If the term "daughter-clone" literally means a clone that Schala carried and gave birth to, then their DNA wouldn't be completely identical (and it would be different, since conception would have to take place by an alternative means).  Since the Chrono Cross unites and heals things that have been divided, even if Kid is Schala's daughter, she's still not her, and they wouldn't be united.

However, but my only problem with Kid being Schala's actual daughter via pregnancy is that its highly unlikely that Schala would have been able to carry her and give birth under those conditions.  Merging with Lavos would probably be a terrible strain on her system, and she'd probably miscarry.  Not to mention that Lavos would probably have noticed at some point.

Or three, Schala magically created Kid in some other fashion. As you said, not being a full clone would mean Kid gets some of Lavos's DNA.

As nice as that sounds for fan fiction, it's a wonder she doesn't have spikes growing out of her face in that case.

Very possible as well.  And I don't believe that Lavos's DNA was involved in making Kid, because yeah, she'd have spikes or something.

This is a bit of a stretch, but could it be possible that Schala pulled the extra DNA she might need from an outside source to conceive Kid?  Since the DBT is full of deleted timelines, it might have been possible to reach into one and pull out what she needed.  After all, isn't that what Lavos does?  Absorb DNA?  Whether she actually impregnated herself with Kid or not, this could be a possibility. 

However, that seems to be negated by the game's assertion that Kid is a clone--and a clone is a genetic replica.  You can't have a half-clone--either the DNA is identical or it's not.  If Schala pulled extra DNA from elsewhere, then Kid would be a daughter, not a daughter-clone...

Wow, you can really go in circles thinking about this...   

[Zaperking]

Even if Schala took DNA from Lavos, it doesn't mean Kid would look like Lavos. The DNA can be made recessive. 

Also, since Schala supposedly "sent out her good side" in Kid, then we could allude that to infusing Kid with her essence, her soul, who knows.