Author Topic: The $%*! frustration thread  (Read 574350 times)

ZeaLitY

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4305 on: October 21, 2009, 12:53:14 am »
No.

Something that some people go through is recognizing positive elitism. A lot of people are afraid to make the mentally arrogant thought that they are better than others in some ways, let alone better in a general sense. What kind of metric establishes people as better than others? It's usually a blend of qualities, perhaps exemplified in some great fictional character, like Captain Picard. It is easy to compare him to a derelict on earth and objectively say that he is a better human being (in a humanistic sense of intelligence, empathy, curiosity...all the good human qualities).

Allow yourself to be better than those people. Accept that superiority comes from being more considerate, thoughtful, and lucid than they are. Don't let it de-humanize them, but let it allow you to transcend them. You define your destiny and existence; they do not. We are all humans, but we all have different levels of humanity and illuminated qualities. Let yourself disconnect from them. Let them touch you no more in terms of how you evaluate yourself.

Shee

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4306 on: October 21, 2009, 03:12:08 am »
^^^

Indeed.  NEVER be afriad to be the best.  Whether it's at home or elsewhere, there's nothing at all wrong with being the best.  I think it's clear here that superiority does necessarily mean arrogance.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4307 on: October 21, 2009, 04:16:40 am »
I don't have a problem with that, per say. Though I guess it does at times manifest as arrogance, I think it is more, shall we say, knowing my place. You can blame this on all my ancient readings. The Greeks wouldn't have seen anything wrong with someone vaunting their lineage and achievements, so long as they were not setting themselves too high. There's a good reason that in Greek the same word often means both courage and arrogance: they are not polar opposites, but arrogance is simply 'too much', ie. having overstepped who someone is. Knowing who you are, and your place, is one of the cardinal pieces of widsom in the Greek worldview (immortalized on the door at Delphoi with the words gnothi sauton and, also, meden agan.) As such, I do have a streak that many might see as arrogant, though I do not see it as so - I do not have any trouble submitting the authority of someone that I percieve of as having greater knowledge in an area, etc. I think I very much like to see myself in my proper place. In many situations this is, indeed, head and shoulders above most (at least in so far as intellectual pursuits are concerned... though 'most' does not include my brilliant peers, of which there are many.) Of course, this does then have a certain responsibility to attempt to draw all others up to my level, or at least inspire them with my enthusiasm for whatever I may know. I have no fear for being somehow 'usurped' or shown up, and I would that all would know the things I do.

But you are right, ZeaLitY, many are afraid of expressing such a view, in part, I suppose, do to a democratic concept of equality. What you are speaking of hearkens more to the aristocratic mindset of the kalloi kagathoi, which I does, in a way, seem rather attractive to me. This might just be a rebellion against what I perceive as an over-emphasis on the daily and vulgar in many things (by vulgar I mean commonplace, rather than morally reprehensible.) The desire to be normal and that the hoi polloi are somehow the standard of what is good is strange to me. As, indeed, I have less a liking of that son of a vegetable seller, Euripides, and more regard for that warrior-poet whom the long-haired Medes feared, Aeschylus. And as much as it has some theological difficulties to my mind, even the concept of a Superman, I must admit, is not entirely without some appeal to me.

And so it is true, ZeaLitY, and you do say it well. We are all human, and human worth in the moral sense (if you believe in such things), is equal. But it must be admitted that we are not all equal in terms of benefit to the whole, or importance to society at large. As much as people wish to say, for example, that great things cannot be done without the working class, etc., and as much as that is true, one overseer, one planner or designer, one thinker, is more individually important than one worker. This does not mean that that individual's freedom or life or any such aspect is of lesser value, but the individual value to society is not so great.

Of course, I am speaking of a somewhat aristocratic mind here. But unlike in days past where nobility was born, nowadays - moreso if not yet entirely - nobility is something that one can achieve by the implementation of one's gifts and talents. In some ways, more like the old heroic ethos: the king was not the man who sat idly on the throne. Why were the heroes of the old wars regarded so highly? As Glaukos says (or perhaps it is Sarpedon, I forget... it is one of the Lykian commanders at any rate), it is because they stand foremost in the ranks that they are given the honour of the choicest meats and wines, and regarded as gods in their homeland. Kings for what they are... a good concept.

Again, we cannot devalue someone's human worth, but I think we can gauge, by varying scales, one's position relative to others. On the scale of, say, musical aptitude, I have no doubt that I would rank very badly next to most of you, and I will readily admit my inferiority there. Likewise if we were to guage physical strength. But in the matter of academics, in sheer range of learning and studies, I rank amongst the highest. This is not arrogance, this is simply what is, and admitting that is simply having no false modesty. If I want to be truly pious according to my beliefs (though ZeaLitY and others might disagree on this account), I can attribute the cause to God via fate. But it remains that I am the person who I am, both the good and bad elements. A whole knowledge and understanding of one's self, therefore, of who one is, neither setting one's self too high or too low, is ever the best policy.

Again, gnothi sauton kai meden agan!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 04:24:32 am by Daniel Krispin »

Lord J Esq

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4308 on: October 21, 2009, 04:53:52 am »
Since others have addressed the one side, I want to address the other: You need to move out, Zephira. You really do. You need to start living on your own, for yourself. It's time for that.

Set out on your own, and you will know what kind of a person you are going to be, because the problems that are your own will come with you, and the problems that are not your own will vanish.

Ramsus

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4309 on: October 21, 2009, 07:52:40 am »
There's a bunch of cats outside right now... and they won't shut up.

Thought

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4310 on: October 21, 2009, 12:08:47 pm »
Last night I had the lovely experience of discovering that my credit card number had been stolen.

My wife and I were looking over our charges and noticed a random one that neither of us could identify. Looking over the last few months, we discovered several other charges for a similar amount to the same company. None of them were large charges (though they were starting to add up), but it was to a company that neither of us had ever had any dealings with. Ever.

This isn't the worst crime ever, which is why this is here instead of in the hate thread, but it is still rather annoying.

Sajainta

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4311 on: October 21, 2009, 12:16:58 pm »
Zephira--you have the ability to choose who you will become, the people around you will only influence that potential person if you let them.

I'm so sorry you're stuck in such a terrible situation.  It sounds toxic, and I agree with J--you should make plans to get out of there.  It doesn't sound like a home anymore.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 12:18:36 pm by Sajainta »

Uboa

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4312 on: October 21, 2009, 01:38:19 pm »
Am I going to end up like this, too?

I am hesitant to make the point I am about to make for fear that this really is not the best occasion, but I feel that it is pertinent because it is something that I've had to deal with on many occasions since moving out of my parents' home.  It is my understanding that for those who share both genes and a living space with less-than-ideal relatives, there does exist a propensity to develop malignant behavior patterns which mirror those of said relatives in certain, often difficult situations.  This is not to say that developing these behavior patterns is inevitable, and believe me that is the last thing I want to imply here, because that is absolutely not true.  Rather, my point is that it is often the case that these behavioral tendencies catch us off guard in times when our lives are hectic, and if too much is in disarray we may not catch ourselves contributing more to that disarray until it is too late.  Needless to say, it's good to develop the habit of being on the lookout for things like this.

Also:  In my own experience, when I've hit a wall in some personal situation, or when I've come to the realization that I just cannot handle a situation in the way most people would see fit to handle it, I've started to realize that, quite often, one of my less-than-ideal relatives had a ridiculously hard time dealing with a similar situation.  Perhaps such a situation ended up driving said relative crazy, causing that relative to do something, or many things, that hurt him/her or other people, possibly me.  Perhaps such a situation was the beginning of many of said relative's problems, and in that light perhaps it is what caused me hold a consistently low opinion of "said relative". (Heh, is it becoming obvious that I have "said relative" issues?)  It's never been pleasant to recall such incidents and misgivings, but its been in part by making such a connection with unpleasant familial memories that I've been able to come to a better understanding of how to live with my own idiosyncrasies, and how to live in a way which will keep me from hurting myself or other people in the future.  One of the hardest tasks I've had to undertake, and that most people have to undertake in life is that of gleaning, not just valuable, but essential, necessary insight from these negative familial experiences.

Honestly?  No, I do not think that you will end up repeating the mistakes which you see going on around you.  You understand too well the frustration of living with them to allow yourself to fall into their traps.  At least, that is the way I see it.  I agree with J that it would be best for you to get out of there if at all possible, if for nothing else than to relieve yourself of the frustrations of living in that situation.  I hope that is a possibility, or at least that there is some kind of "third place" you are able to go to get away when you need to.  Before any of that, though, I hope that there's some possibility, any possibility, that things will settle down on their own for the time being...

Sajainta

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4313 on: October 21, 2009, 05:30:41 pm »
Someone called me a slut today.  I was walking slower than usual and this guy walks past me and says "Get out of the way, slut!'"  I was so taken aback that I couldn't do anything except stare at him as he walked away.  I guess "slut" is just his automatic word for people who piss him off, or women who piss him off, or whatever.  "Slut" is an incredibly offensive word regardless, but the word itself upsets me on such a personal level that people I know refrain from using it (along with "whore") in my presence.  I was 5 minutes late to my next class because I went into the nearest restroom to cry.  What a jerk...

FaustWolf

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4314 on: October 21, 2009, 08:16:35 pm »
What a fucktard. It is but a taste of the misogyny that quietly permeates "mainstream" American society. If you can stomach the notion, "guy talk" is absolutely riddled with that kind of terminology applied to women. It's bold indeed that he should use it in a truly public situation; it suggests that this is becoming acceptable. And that shouldn't be accepted.

You may do well to check out your university's sexual harassment policy if this happened on campus, and see what options are available to you if this happens again.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 08:24:40 pm by FaustWolf »

Lord J Esq

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4315 on: October 21, 2009, 08:59:12 pm »
Uboa makes an excellent point about picking up the habits of those who are in frequent close proximity to you--especially when you're younger and more formative, and super-especially if those people are family members.

My mom and I had an extremely bad relationship for most of my childhood. In fact every dynamic in that house was bad or at least troubled, except for the relationship between me and my dad. When I went to college, so much of that simply evaporated. I had beaten the beast.

But not quite.

My mother is an extremely passive-aggressive person--dysfunctionally so, in fact. As an adult I have noticed my own, smaller tendency toward passive-aggressiveness. I was exposed to it long enough, and I was impressionable enough, that it became a part of my personality. I am always on guard to avoid being passive-aggressive in my behavior to others; usually I succeed because I detest the trait so deeply. But it's the kind of success that requires eternal vigilance. There will probably never be a point where the propensity toward passive-aggressiveness just fades out of my personality. It's a part of who I am, and I have to live with that.

The more time you spend with people who bring out the worst in you (or the best, for that matter, or anything in between), the more those behaviors and frames of mind are reinforced. This, above all else, is why you should get out and live on your own with all deliberate speed.

Truthordeal

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4316 on: October 21, 2009, 10:57:06 pm »
Someone called me a slut today.  I was walking slower than usual and this guy walks past me and says "Get out of the way, slut!'"  I was so taken aback that I couldn't do anything except stare at him as he walked away.  I guess "slut" is just his automatic word for people who piss him off, or women who piss him off, or whatever.  "Slut" is an incredibly offensive word regardless, but the word itself upsets me on such a personal level that people I know refrain from using it (along with "whore") in my presence.  I was 5 minutes late to my next class because I went into the nearest restroom to cry.  What a jerk...

Grrrr....

I effing hate that word! It is so overused that the actual denotation has lost all meaning! Dogdamned stupid voleh!

Do people not understand what they're saying anymore?! Can they not see that "slut," even used in the proper context is probably the most devastating thing you can call a woman, let alone a random stranger on the street?

This is completely ridiculous, and I hope the next person that jerkass does this to kicks him right in the balls!!!

Lord J Esq

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4317 on: October 21, 2009, 11:28:17 pm »
This is completely ridiculous, and I hope the next person that jerkass does this to kicks him right in the balls!!!

Truthordeal, perhaps your sympathies are in the right place in this one, but I have to admit that it frustrates me when brash males propose to counter brash male sexism with brash male solutions. It's all so blissfully oblivious that I could scream.

Calling for someone to be kicked in the balls comes from the same place that calling someone a slut does. If you abhor the one, don't show it by invoking the other, because you totally undermine yourself when you do that. Worse, you do not aid the long-term goals of sexual equality. By suggesting that a male be brought down to size by being kicked in the male genitalia, you are explicitly reaffirming the idea that much of a male's worth comes from his status as a male, and, by affirming that, you are reinforcing all sexism.

Do people not understand what they're saying anymore?! Can they not see that "slut," even used in the proper context is probably the most devastating thing you can call a woman, let alone a random stranger on the street?

I find your comment disturbing, as it clearly affirms your Christian-taught tendency toward the denigration of females by placing their sexuality at the heart of their worth as individuals. The actual most devastating thing you can call a person is whatever happens to be the opposite of what they most want to be--or, more fundamentally, whatever happens to be the opposite of whatever qualities they use to assert their worth as human beings. To some people, "slut" may be the worst possible slur. But to others, no it won't.

Calling someone a "slut" is always potentially offensive, because it implies worthlessness, poor judgment, and flawed character. It is also personally offensive in Sajainta's case because she's been the victim of extraordinary sexual abuses. But is "slut" the single worst thing that a person could say of each and every one of the Earth's nearly 3.5 billion females? No, it isn't.

You have to be careful when you speak on behalf of groups of people, Truthordeal, because there is a high price to pay if you're wrong. In this case, you have objectified all females, making you an ordinary, run-of-the-mill sexist in this instance. Despite all my disagreements with you, I know you're better than that, so please try to put some more thought into what you say.

FaustWolf

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4318 on: October 21, 2009, 11:32:06 pm »
It's interesting to observe how some Third Wave feminists are trying to "reclaim" that word, among others. A high-theory Third Wave feminist woman who experiences what Sajainta just did might respond by saying: "Yes, I'm a sexual being. So what, you mean you aren't?"

In the end, I think it does little good from a male perspective, because men who apply the word are still applying it with the understanding that the word is derogatory. The practice of "Reclamation" builds a communcational disconnect between two disparate subcultures, when the goal should be to eliminate the lack of respect one subculture has for another. It's like catching a bullet and making a bracelet out of it, but not removing the shooter's wish to injure. The offender will just make up new words with which to hurt others.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 11:35:50 pm by FaustWolf »

Zephira

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #4319 on: October 21, 2009, 11:39:57 pm »
Yeah, slut is offensive, but it wouldn't be the most offensive thing for me as the word has no meaning applied to my life. I've never been sexually active, so calling me a slut would be like calling me a glutton or murderer or psychopath. None of them are very desirable and they might make strangers question my reputation, but they have no truth in them.
For me, the most offensive insult would probably be a no talent, shitty artist. And yes, I have received that one, plenty of times.
For an insult to be truly painful, it has to be personal. You say I'm a slut, I say you're an ass and laugh and walk away.