what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...

[Kyronea]

Entire CC. I felt almost betrayed. You know what. I did.

Why?

[Blackcaped_imp]

Betrayed?

[V_Translanka]

Apparently SOMEONE put a little too much emotional weight into the RPG series...>_>

[knuck]

Trigger:

1) The translation.
2) I hate Crono being a silent protagionest.
3) I found the Black Omen dull and unsatisfying.
4) Max stats are reached too easily.
5) The story was too short. Nothing was really explained, you just did things.
6) Too much humour. The game should have been a lot more serious. It's a tragic story, after all.
7) It destroyed physics.

Cross:

1) I really hate chrono cross as a remake of radical dreamers.
2) I hate Serge being a silent protagionest.
3) Underdeveloped characters
4) Retarded characters (I don't want to save the world with a cook on my side and a pink dog on the other)
5) Retarded leveling system. More like, you couldn't level.
6) Mitsuda's style went downhill. (it's not bad, just 200% less good than in Trigger)
7) It destroyed physics even more.

i didn't like cc at all (compared to ct).  cc seemed to me to be some elaborate plot that would've been good as a final fantasy, but because square was already releasing one of those around the same time they decided to add some names and dates from chrono trigger and call it a sequel.  the only thing that was chrono-ish was the multiple dimensions.  you would've never seen that in an ff.

The bolded part is the most beautiful (and sad) truth.

And now, even though you didn't ask, I'll tell you what's bad about RD:

1) Too short.
2) Maybe it could have been a real rpg. Not that being text-only makes it any bad.

Apparently SOMEONE put a little too much emotional weight into the RPG series...>_>

God forbid someone uses hyperbole on the internet.

[ZeaLitY]

Names and dates, but not characters, themes, and motifs?

Did someone not play the game all the way through or something?

[knuck]

Names and dates, but not characters, themes, and motifs?

It's there, but it isn't obvious, making it have much less impact, thusly making it feel like it's just final fantasy with some Chrono names, dates and locations.

Did someone not play the game all the way through or something?

A lot of people haven't. Probably for the reasons stated above. I have tried several times, but I always get bored. The best part of the game for me was Viper Manor, if only because of the rehashed RD themes.

[V_Translanka]

Trigger:

1) The translation.

Besides not being entirely accurate, what's wrong with CT's translation? It's a good script regardless of the Woosley-Factor.

2) I hate Crono being a silent protagonist.

Yeah, that one's kinda hit-or-miss...but the game was the coming together of Square & Enix, the Japanese probably would have been disappointed if he wasn't like that. lol

5) The story was too short. Nothing was really explained, you just did things.

What do you mean nothing is really explained. Everything you do has a reason...Most of 'em are to ultimately get rid of Lavos...

7) It destroyed physics.

I didn't know the physics of time travel were so clearly defined...

1) I really hate chrono cross as a remake of radical dreamers.

I really hate that that's how people see it. They just made the main storyline of RD into a sub-plot of CC...it was more of a homage than a "remake"...

4) Retarded characters (I don't want to save the world with a cook on my side and a pink dog on the other)

The main thing that irks me when I bring up the fact that there are so many underdeveloped characters and the like is that they're mostly all optional...The main irk is that it's true! >_>

5) Retarded leveling system. More like, you couldn't level.

Then how can you hold that against it? It's like saying the cheese on the cake was lame but there wasn't cheese on the cake. You can say you don't like the fact that there isn't cheese on the cake, but then you're just crazy because who puts cheese on a cake, eh?

7) It destroyed physics even more.

I'm not even sure there ARE dimensional travel physics...

And now, even though you didn't ask, I'll tell you what's bad about RD:

1) Too short.

It's was just a little text-based game that you could download from your phone-line (fancy, huh?)...I don't have a lot of experience with them, but I don't think that they're supposed to be that long...and I know I probably wouldn't have liked it very much if it WAS really long...

God forbid someone uses hyperbole on the internet.

Finally, someone agrees with me! God should forbid a lot of things that people use on the internet, to be honest...

[knuck]

Besides not being entirely accurate, what's wrong with CT's translation? It's a good script regardless of the Woosley-Factor.

I want an accurate translation.

Yeah, that one's kinda hit-or-miss...but the game was the coming together of Square & Enix, the Japanese probably would have been disappointed if he wasn't like that. lol

I'm pretty sure every Final Fantasy protagonist speaks.

What do you mean nothing is really explained. Everything you do has a reason...Most of 'em are to ultimately get rid of Lavos...

Then why the hell does this Compendium tries to explain a lot of things that lack canon explanation? I'm sure you'll agree there's a lack of info on the Chrono universe. We don't know the history of Guardia, or any part of the world. We know the history of Lavos and Crono & Co. Is asking for background information is too much?

I didn't know the physics of time travel were so clearly defined...

They aren't clearly defined, but there are some things that are defined. Eg grandfather paradox can't happen.

I really hate that that's how people see it. They just made the main storyline of RD into a sub-plot of CC...it was more of a homage than a "remake"...

I'm pretty sure Kato himself said it is a remake. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

The main thing that irks me when I bring up the fact that there are so many underdeveloped characters and the like is that they're mostly all optional...The main irk is that it's true! >_>

What?

Then how can you hold that against it? It's like saying the cheese on the cake was lame but there wasn't cheese on the cake. You can say you don't like the fact that there isn't cheese on the cake, but then you're just crazy because who puts cheese on a cake, eh?

Again... what?

I'm not even sure there ARE dimensional travel physics...

We don't know if it's possible. But if it is (and I'm pretty sure it is), I think it works in some way like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

Finally, someone agrees with me! God should forbid a lot of things that people use on the internet, to be honest...

I don't want to sound harsh but... english mfer, do you speak it? or did you misinterpret it just to be witty?

[ZeaLitY]

Kato said they were going to do Radical Dreamers "properly". RD was a story driven by what happened to Schala in Zeal, and so was Cross, despite only using the RD scenario in the beginning of the game.

[knuck]

Kato said they were going to do Radical Dreamers "properly".

Ah, as I thought, it's a remake.

[ZeaLitY]

80% original material isn't what I'd call a remake...they used the central theme, but even then, they changed Schala's fate. It might be a spiritual remake or something.

[V_Translanka]

Yeah, if it was a remake, Magus would actually be in it, eh? lol

I'm pretty sure every Final Fantasy protagonist speaks.

Wrong. Plus, I brought that up because the Japanese RPG fans are more devoted to Enix than Square and pretty much every single Dragon Quest (their flagship series) protagonist is silent.

[knuck]

80% original material isn't what I'd call a remake...they used the central theme, but even then, they changed Schala's fate. It might be a spiritual remake or something.

It is a remake. Remake does not mean "redoit in better gaphrics". It means "to make it again".

Wrong.

Which one doesn't?

[Burning Zeppelin]

I hate it how people always compare Chrono Cross to Chrono Trigger, and always complain about how Chrono Cross isn't much like Trigger (basically, they want a 3D Chrono Trigger). You have to realize that they are two seperate games. And plot holes? The story is so deep, I'm suprised there aren't more.

Well, I guess that's my only beef. Yep, the community. I don't mind the countless number of characters - I think it adds a nice touch to the customization and feel of your party. I guess there could've been more nudity... But that's a trivial matter, at best.

EDIT:
@knuck: Humour is necessary in most tragic stories. If there is too much sadness, people end up getting bored or a bit too depressed. Look at Romeo and Juliet, one of the greatest tragic plays (well, it's ok...). Shakespear adds humour to it, even though it is a tragic story.

And what is the big deal with Crono and Serge being silent protagonists? They are silent so we can create our own image of their personality. If you are too unimaginative to think of what they could be like, then that is your own problem. A persons interaction with any sort of artform is what gives the artform meaning and life. I could go through the entire game believing that Crono is a dickhead, and mould my perception of the story around it. Or, I could imagine that Crono's father committed suicide, and because of that, Crono is silent (but I guess that is taking it too far).

(And about Square silent protagonists, Cloud and Squall are pretty much silent throughout the entire game. I guess Square like their characters to be good silent little boys.)

Also, who cares if it is a remake. Does that make it any worse? It changes a lot of stuff, and it is in 3D, AND it is on PSX, AND I wouldn't of been able to play Radical Dreamers anyway. God bless Square Enix.

@Some other guy: Hah, betrayed. They don't owe you anything. They could've made it into a game where you kiss Kato's arse all day, and that still wouldn't be traitorous. Unless of course, they DO owe you something, or you own shares... But I severely doubt that. And V's right, don't get your knickers in a knot over a RPG.

EDIT 2:
@knuck: You know which one doesn't? Chocobo, from Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales (an excellent game which I reccommend to anyone who owns a DS)

[b2therizzo]

would you guys think rewriting both games in a more psuedo-linear format would be better ... that's how i'd do it and i'd take out party management.  make people come and go from your party when they are no longer necessary ... example: why would ayla travel with you to zeal, she just defeated the reptites (with the help of lavos) and rescued her boyfriend (?) kino.  shouldn't they be getting busy for the sake of the future.  i really think the final party should have been chrono, marle, and frog.

going back to the statement i made about the story i wrote for another game, the final party/motivations were based on decisions you made through the course of the game.  in the first chapter of th trilogy there were 6 final parties including one where the hero goes it alone (the most challenging ending) ... it be nice to think along those lines for story rewrites of ct/cc.

p.s. - i know someone's gonna ask me what psuedo-linear means ... it means you can go anywhere in the time period you are currently in, but once you leave, some of the sidequests may no longer be available.  in other words, when you should be kicking lavos' backside, you're not going around setting cyrus' ghost free (that quest should be something that is done after frog gets the masamune but before you take on magus imo).