Author Topic: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...  (Read 7017 times)

b2therizzo

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what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« on: August 11, 2007, 11:52:43 pm »
so how about it?  lets have a laundry list of cons ... i'm considering a fan project that may take the input from a community like this into account.

Sora

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2007, 01:25:33 pm »
i really hate chrono cross as a remake of radical dreamers.
i hate serge being a silent protagionest.
i think  their could be more forest levels.
the censorship (its heaven, not lightening!)

justin3009

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2007, 03:20:24 pm »
I found Chrono Cross way to easy.  The only difficult boss that I had in that game was Time Devourer (The Dragon God one, Not Lavos).  I really don't know anything wrong with CT ._.

ZeaLitY

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2007, 03:35:09 pm »
I found the Black Omen dull and unsatisfying. Other than that, the plot holes get me down.

Romana

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2007, 03:38:34 pm »
I found the Black Omen dull and unsatisfying.

I just see the Black Omen as a grinding stage. It is dull, probably because nothing happens there until the end.

Anyway, I could complain that CT's max stats are reached too easily (I'd prefer having 9999 total for HP, to be honest), and CC... Well, I'd like a balanced party with way less characters. I can't think of much else.

b2therizzo

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2007, 07:14:57 pm »
okay here's my list ...

i didn't like cc at all (compared to ct).  cc seemed to me to be some elaborate plot that would've been good as a final fantasy, but because square was already releasing one of those around the same time they decided to add some names and dates from chrono trigger and call it a sequel.  the only thing that was chrono-ish was the multiple dimensions.  you would've never seen that in an ff.

my big thing with cc was how can lavos come back when you killed his shell and his insides (twice!).  there should've been a different villian in cc ... whether it be queen zeal is still alive or what, but i think the party from ct beat the tar out of lavos.

zeality mentioned a more balanced party and less characters for cc ... i very much dislike games with party management (which is pretty much a feature of every game nowadays).  i think it's laziness on the part of the story writer.  i like games like ff2 (as opposed to ff7) where people come and go from your party for various reasons.  i think its harder (and shows more work on the part of the writer) when you don't employ party management.  plus how many people play the game with the same 3 characters and then toward the end of the game decide bring the others out of retirement and now you have to grind to get their levels up.

i loved ct ... would've been nice to have some more/longer levels, but good nonetheless.  see above for my party management rant ... that's it.

Magus

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2007, 03:27:29 am »
I found nothing wrong with CT at all to be honest.

However, CC was horrible in comparison, there were tons of plot holes, endless loops, a million billion boring pointless characters. And even then, some of the stupidest characters played the biggest role ( Like the crack Spongebob Squarepants alien thing helping you get to Terra Tower ) plus the ending was cheesy and terribly done. Ending with " * Well, your memories are gone, we'll meet in another time * " dumb, dumb, dumb. Plus they cut Magus, which makes me hate it even more.

ZeaLitY

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2007, 03:28:29 pm »
there were tons of plot holes

Name one. And not the Compendium's, either.

Kyronea

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2007, 03:36:47 pm »
Zeality is mad now.

Okay, MY LIST TIME!

Chrono Trigger: First off, the story was too short. It did not go into depth on many of the finer issues that needed in-depth going into, like the nature of Lavos, the reason he came to the Chrono Planet, whether he was sentient, and so on and so forth.

Gameplay was too easy, and there were too many exploitable methods for making your party a powerhouse real quick.

Much of the dialog was cheesy and needed serious improvement.

Characters needed better development, and it needed a better translation. (Though that could not be helped given the situation Woolsey had to deal with.)

Chrono Cross:

The plot was done extremely well, but the pacing and exposition was so poor it made my eyes bleed, especially when you take into account how much atmosphere was provided.

The other main problem: the huge number of characters.

Look, I know why they did what they did, but this was not a game that you could just stick a character into in any situation. This is a game that focuses on a story surrounding specific characters and thus the game needed to be that way. Many of the characters should not have been in the game either as PCs or NPCs, and most of the PCs should have stayed NPCs where they were. Literally, everyone and their mother joined your party. It was nuts.

Also, a few things weren't done very well, such as the exposition at Chronopolis.

Other than those problems, though, the games were solid.

maggiekarp

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2007, 03:52:02 pm »
Chrono Trigger could have done with some more interpersonal relationships between characters. It had One Piece levels of potential dynamics but it didn't roll with it. I think that's more of a time and game mechanics issue, though, rather than a translation one.

Chrono Cross is the only game in the series that would really benefit from a remake. Less player characters, more development of said characters and story. I started a topic on another forum that dealt specifically with the CC characters and which ones should be kept in such a remake, but I think certain game mechanics should have been changed as well. Also, the ability to transport characters in ANY place, like CT, would be nice.



The pendant is the biggest plot hole I can think of at the moment. If Schala gave it to her freaky daughter-clone, how could Marle have it as well?
[edit]I know there's an article on this already, but I'm not really satisfied by that answer.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 04:00:07 pm by maggiekarp »

ZeaLitY

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2007, 04:00:52 pm »
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Pendant_Paradox_%28Reasons_for%29.html

That takes care of it with TTI and TB, and even uses the Vest / Mails of Chrono Trigger as part of its reasoning.

maggiekarp

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2007, 04:10:45 pm »
I dunno, still stinks of bullshit to me. I realize that the pendant wasn't the thing making them travel through time, but it's still a hell of a plot device to just retcon out. Plus, the phrasing in those theories isn't exactly clear.

[edit] The Time Bastard theory seems to say that even though Marle wouldn't have her pendant in 1000 AD, she'd suddenly have it when she travels back in time? That doesn't make sense even with the wonky time laws of these games.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 04:13:15 pm by maggiekarp »

b2therizzo

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2007, 04:23:58 pm »
i agree with karp ... cc could use a remake (kinda why i started this thread).

i wanted to get some ideas as to plot changes that might sure some things up and make way possibly for a fan made cb (break) to once and for all close the story, since square isn't really making any headway on that.

kyronea, if i were making a remake i would make sure that lavos is non sentient, he's a feeder that goes from planet to planet and eats, that's it.  i mean he knows how to defend himself when attacked but he's not some kind of evil god that knows all and sees all.

i think break should expose the fact that someone created lavos for destruction.  i think the reptites should have come to this planet during prehistory because their world was destroyed by lavos ... as well i think other characters should be sorta refugees on this planet.  i think the three wisemen (melchior, gaspard, belthasar) are members of a group of space police (i know it's cheesy but i'll work on it) that traveled to the planet to stop lavos but got marooned when their spaceship crashed in the snow of the iceage, and were further marooned when they got thrown to various points in time.

now the question is how do you make cc better, and how does that effect cb ???
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 04:26:46 pm by b2therizzo »

ZeaLitY

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2007, 04:28:41 pm »
She keeps the pendant because of Time Traveler's Immunity. Without TTI, the entire series would be nullified by Grandfather paradoxes and other stupidity, like "if they changed the future and didn't see the Day of Lavos video, they wouldn't have changed the future" and stuff like that. Time Bastard just explains why it doesn't disappear like Melchior and Janus do after the Ocean Palace disaster in the new timeline.

Yeah, I always thought of Lavos as some kind of sentient superweapon with a taste for oblivion.

maggiekarp

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Re: what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2007, 04:44:47 pm »
Time Traveler's Immunity only works in the process of time traveling and should only be applied to stuff like memories. Marle didn't have this apply to her when she was a child and got the pendant in the first place. TTI only works for light paradoxes.

Your analysis on the Pendant's personal time acts like the pendant can exist in two radically different timelines at once.




Sentient Lavos is more creepy. Do that instead.