Server move complete

[Ramsus]

There, the layout is fixed in IE6.

[ZeaLitY]

How's the main site's text look to everyone now? I think the spaces are a little too large; content seems bloated. I wouldn't totally restore it the way it was, but I might cut the space between lines by a third.

[Glennleo]

How's the main site's text look to everyone now? I think the spaces are a little too large; content seems bloated. I wouldn't totally restore it the way it was, but I might cut the space between lines by a third.

A little tighter with the words would be fine. It does seem a little bloated as you say.

I use FireFox if that matter at all.

[dankun]

I don't know if this is a problem for everyone else, or just for whoever is using IE....
But whenever I open a link in a new window for some reason the site isn't displayed in its center and is alligned to the left side of the screen.

I'm not so sure that this is a real issue with the site's design or not, but it is kind of annoying.

[Ramsus]

I don't know if this is a problem for everyone else, or just for whoever is using IE....
But whenever I open a link in a new window for some reason the site isn't displayed in its center and is alligned to the left side of the screen.

I'm not so sure that this is a real issue with the site's design or not, but it is kind of annoying.

That's just what happens when the site is loaded in a window less than 1000 pixels wide. The solution is to maximize the new window and hit refresh. Later I'll fix it to recenter when you make the window bigger...

[Ramsus]

How's the main site's text look to everyone now? I think the spaces are a little too large; content seems bloated. I wouldn't totally restore it the way it was, but I might cut the space between lines by a third.

A little tighter with the words would be fine. It does seem a little bloated as you say.

I use FireFox if that matter at all.

Right now it's closer to 1.6-1.8 times line spacing at the most, which isn't all that excessive. If the content seems bloated, maybe that's because the content really is bloated.

If you want to really help me, pay less attention to how different it looks and how long everything looks now, and more to how easily you can read over each line, or scan text for specific sentences. That would be the most useful feedback.

[Lord J Esq]

ZeaLitY wanted me to chime in on this. I think it looks fine for short blocks of text, but he's got a point with the longer stuff:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Stories/42/43

Rather than arguing, rein the line spacing in a little bit and we'll all be happier.

Oh, and get rid of those god dammed diagonal lines in the background. Pretty please!

[Ramsus]

ZeaLitY wanted me to chime in on this. I think it looks fine for short blocks of text, but he's got a point with the longer stuff:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Stories/42/43

Rather than arguing, rein the line spacing in a little bit and we'll all be happier.

Oh, and get rid of those god dammed diagonal lines in the background. Pretty please!

I know he has a point. Aesthetically the large blocks of text look prettier with closer lines in this layout (I think so too), but the extra spacing helps you read them, and that's more important.

However, those paragraphs under "Scene #C" seem rather extreme examples:

Paragraph 1: 218 words
Paragraph 2: 276 words
Paragraph 3: 232 words

Most of the paragraphs in novels and books and on the Internet are easily between 70-150 words in length.

What do you think the real problem here is? If I promote longer and longer paragraphs through the styles, while at the same time making those same behemoths of paragraphs less easier to read, then am I really doing the site a service? What do you think the natural tendency will be when writing new content?

Don't trust me? View the page without styles, or view it in a text-only browser. Then tell me what the problem is.

I will not compromise on this point unless you can prove to me that the longer paragraphs are somehow beneficial to making the content more accessible. Besides, I'm still working on readjusting the spacing around the paragraphs, which might be making the line-spacing look worse than it is even with the shorter paragraphs. Also, when I made the edit, it was with the full-page width in mind. I've since edited in more specific styles for the pages with other widths due to having content on the right.

Also, I'll eventually fix the stripes somehow, but first I need some time to sit down and experiment with some alternative ideas. Considering how little time I have to do anything creative or conscientiously work on anything these days, it doesn't help to whine about anything until Saturday morning.

EDIT: Attached that same page converted to a text file rendered to be read on a standard terminal screen, and you can see that the paragraphs mentioned are easily more than an entire screen's length. Many other texts (novels, books, articles, and regular Internet content) look just fine under the same exact conditions.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Glennleo]

How's the main site's text look to everyone now? I think the spaces are a little too large; content seems bloated. I wouldn't totally restore it the way it was, but I might cut the space between lines by a third.

A little tighter with the words would be fine. It does seem a little bloated as you say.

I use FireFox if that matter at all.

Right now it's closer to 1.6-1.8 times line spacing at the most, which isn't all that excessive. If the content seems bloated, maybe that's because the content really is bloated.

If you want to really help me, pay less attention to how different it looks and how long everything looks now, and more to how easily you can read over each line, or scan text for specific sentences. That would be the most useful feedback.

I was just answering Zeality's question. It is a little too wide, not by very much. That's all I was saying.

[Ramsus]

I was just answering Zeality's question. It is a little too wide, not by very much. That's all I was saying.

I was just addressing both of you.

[Lord J Esq]

Long paragraphs are bad for the site? Why, because they reduce readership? It sounds to me like you've declared the Compendium an official Lowest Common Denominator fan club.

Be that as it may, I don't actually care enough about your spacing scheme to press the argument. Z asked for my opinion here, and there you have it.

What I really care about is those friggin' diagonal lines. The sooner they're gone, the sooner I can go back up to Defcon 3.

[dankun]

Right now it's closer to 1.6-1.8 times line spacing at the most, which isn't all that excessive. If the content seems bloated, maybe that's because the content really is bloated.

If you want to really help me, pay less attention to how different it looks and how long everything looks now, and more to how easily you can read over each line, or scan text for specific sentences. That would be  the most useful feedback.

Maybe you should make the spacing between paragraphs something between 1.4-1.6 times the normal one.
Just a suggestion, seeing as how everyone seems to agree that the spacing is a little too much as it is right now.
I think that should probably look just about right with either long or short paragraphs.

Anyway, I was wandering what happened with the main server site. I get a message that there is an Internal Server Error everytime I try to access the news/updates page.

[Ramsus]

Right now it's closer to 1.6-1.8 times line spacing at the most, which isn't all that excessive. If the content seems bloated, maybe that's because the content really is bloated.

If you want to really help me, pay less attention to how different it looks and how long everything looks now, and more to how easily you can read over each line, or scan text for specific sentences. That would be  the most useful feedback.

Maybe you should make the spacing between paragraphs something between 1.4-1.6 times the normal one.
Just a suggestion, seeing as how everyone seems to agree that the spacing is a little too much as it is right now.
I think that should probably look just about right with either long or short paragraphs.

Anyway, I was wandering what happened with the main server site. I get a message that there is an Internal Server Error everytime I try to access the news/updates page.

I shouldn't even throw numbers out there... The numbers I wrote are the ratios of the line height to the font size, not the normal line height. Normal line height/spacing is already at least 1.2 times, and the current line spacing is only 120% bigger than the normal line spacing in most areas of the site. Considering Verdana has really large x-height at small sizes (the lower-case letters aren't much shorter than the upper-case ones), it needs slightly more than normal line height -- even more so as the text becomes wider.

Besides, what would make that look "just about right"? You personal taste? That some other people brought up something about the line spacing that's since been changed before you even posted?

You should always double-guess your own impressions about these things. Looking at blocks of text to judge their aesthetic value is one thing, but try actually reading the text for long periods of time.

And I don't design by committee. Never ever suggest anything because it seems like everyone agrees. Bring your own evidence.

Also, I was working on something and it just screwed up some permissions. Things are fine now.

Long paragraphs are bad for the site? Why, because they reduce readership? It sounds to me like you've declared the Compendium an official Lowest Common Denominator fan club.

Be that as it may, I don't actually care enough about your spacing scheme to press the argument. Z asked for my opinion here, and there you have it.

What I really care about is those friggin' diagonal lines. The sooner they're gone, the sooner I can go back up to Defcon 3.

If you're writing huge paragraphs, it means you're talking at too concrete a level and need to build even higher abstractions, or you're really just cramming together two or even three separate paragraphs. I don't see how forcing more concise, abstract language makes us "lowest common denominator."

[Lord J Esq]

Not everything can be pithy, and not everything that can be pithy should be. You're making a design specification based on a value judgment. As the site designer, you should stick to functionality and usability issues, and steer clear of deciding for others whether to use two words or two pages. You're so hands-off most of the time, and that has always been to the Compendium's benefit. It makes no sense to single out this one issue, especially when you're not even right.

[ZeaLitY]

I think the text has changed considerably now.