Crono Foreshadowing

[Thought]

Well, Belthasar is obviously some kind of temporal mechanics/chaos savant capable of improbable computations.

Exactly, and if one is, others could be too. Thus, prophesies in the game may merely be a result of "improbable computations."

Perhaps the Poyozos are more significant...Two of those on Death Peak basically just give clues, but the first actually changes into a tree...>_>

Good point. Really, only one Poyozo is even needed to climb Death Peak and battle Ganon (wait... that's Death Mountain, sorry). Thus, Belthasar seems to have been wrong in saying "THEY have to show you the way."

[V_Translanka]

"Push the shell, climb the shell" was kind of helpful...Odd too that that's the only shell that remains on-screen after the Spawn is defeated...

[Dark Serge]

Apparently some Lavos spawns leave their shell behind when they die, Lavos does the same when you fight him, although he developed a core.

What I found mostly weird is that Lavos is nowhere to be found on Death Peak. I remember Belthasar saying Lavos was reigning high atop Death Peak at some point.

[Thought]

Yeah, Belthasar says alot of things... though, to be fair, I doubt the level was supposed to represent the entirety of Death Peak, so perhaps Lavos was just somewhere else (in the john, perhaps).

It isn't so strange that some Lavos spawn leave their shells behind when they die, it is that only a few do and a few do not. One would normally expect all such things to behave in a similar manner.

But as for "push the shell, climb the shell"... really, that isn't that helpful. Perhaps they had to cut out a fourth poyozo that told the party "keep breathing, oxygen is good."

[V_Translanka]

You say "a few do"...but if I recall it's just that ONE.

[Dark Serge]

That's because Lavos only got to make three of them. If Crono wouldn't have started his journey, many Lavos Spawns would have probably spread around the world, and probably around half of them would leave their shell behind when killed.

[dankun]

"Push the shell, climb the shell" was kind of helpful...Odd too that that's the only shell that remains on-screen after the Spawn is defeated...

I always believed that the reason for that, was probably because it's the only one that had time to start developing a 'core'. It is the last Lavos Spawn that you have to fight, after all.

Yeah, Belthasar says alot of things... though, to be fair, I doubt the level was supposed to represent the entirety of Death Peak, so perhaps Lavos was just somewhere else (in the john, perhaps).

Where's the rest of the level then? Why is it only this location in the game, that the party doesn't get to fully explore?
In stead of venturing wild gueses and speculating, a direct quote from Belthasar would provide a more accurate answer to this dilemma.

It isn't so strange that some Lavos spawn leave their shells behind when they die, it is that only a few do and a few do not. One would normally expect all such things to behave in a similar manner.

I believe that they all do. It's just that not all of them had the time to develop their inner 'core'.

But as for "push the shell, climb the shell"... really, that isn't that helpful. Perhaps they had to cut out a fourth poyozo that told the party "keep breathing, oxygen is good."

Right. That advice isn't any use at all... to you, having already played the game countless times and have pretty much memorized all the key aspects of climbing Death Mountain.

[Thought]

I always believed that the reason for that, was probably because it's the only one that had time to start developing a 'core'. It is the last Lavos Spawn that you have to fight, after all.

I don't suppose you could offer "a direct quote from Belthasar," which "would provide a more accurate answer to this dilemma," instead of "venturing wild guesses and speculating?"

Where's the rest of the level then? Why is it only this location in the game, that the party doesn't get to fully explore?
In stead of venturing wild gueses and speculating, a direct quote from Belthasar would provide a more accurate answer to this dilemma.

Actually, I never assumed any "level" in the game is supposed to represent the entirely of the local. Consider Crono's house; there is only one bedroom, and only one bed, but two people live there. Are we to assume that Crono and his mother sleep in the same bed? Or indeed, as there are fewer beds in the game than there are NPCs, what does everyone do at night time? Are there shifts for who can sleep when? For those who don't get a bed, well it doubly sucks for them since they'll be going to sleep hungry, what with the total lack of farms in the game and all. Even for the ones who get a bed, things still don't look good for their future, as the world of Crono Trigger must suffer horrendously from inbreeding, with the world lacking a sufficient and diverse population.

So Lavos could be on Death Peak, just somewhere that wasn't included in the level, just like Crono's mother could still have her own room, or there could be farms in the world, or how towns might have populations in the triple didgets (rather than 20ish at best).

Right. That advice isn't any use at all... to you, having already played the game countless times and have pretty much memorized all the key aspects of climbing Death Mountain.

Actually, that advice isn't any use at all to anyone. If you'll allow me to be anecdotal for a moment; I volunteer in a nursery, watching over and taking care of kids that are 18-24 months old. One of the reasons children that age need to be watched is that they have a tendency to climb. If they see something they want that is out of reach, they have no problem pushing a toy over to it and climbing up it. If "pushing" and "climbing" are problem solving abilities that 2year old have, I'd expect anyone playing this game (and certainly the Crono Co.) to be able to figure this conundrum out without the help of the creations of the genius behind Project Kid (and really, it calls Belthasar's intelligence into question if he thought this was vital information that the team couldn't do without). As an aside, apes display this same sort of problem solving abilities.

[V_Translanka]

You bring up a good point...Belthasar WAS insane after all...maybe one outta three was Crono & Co's good fortune? What if he hadn't made that first one turn into a tree and the team had to duck behind the tiny little doll-thing? Oh man, someone's gotta make that pic for the Oekaki! LOL

[Thought]

Actually, I think we'd have been fairly luck if the poyozo just didn't transform into a tree. I mean really; old man, alone in a post-apocalyptic future, no access to women (or men). That poyozo doll could have easily turned into something far worse... or, as a doll, was it already worse than the tree?

[dankun]

Pushing the Lavos Spawn shell and climbing up it always seemed oddly out of place to me. 

i was scared as hell when the shell stayed in place. i thought that there was a glitch in the game or that i didnt kill him right.
it took me about 20 minutes to figure out its purpose the first time i played through it.

What I found mostly weird is that Lavos is nowhere to be found on Death Peak. I remember Belthasar saying Lavos was reigning high atop Death Peak at some point.

When's Lavos supposed to be gone?

For that, you'd have to ask Mother Brain. Presumably, like any virus, the original copy dies in the production of its spawn (it is a bit curious that 2300 is the only era in which Lavos cannot appear).

I rest my case.

[V_Translanka]

Wait, what points are you addressing? Especially w/that last one which I still don't think is exactly right...Using quotes to accent a post is great...but using quotes to answer quotes can be difficult unless you master the secret arts of the forum ninja/pirate/robots.

[dankun]

Wait, what points are you addressing? Especially w/that last one which I still don't think is exactly right...

My point with that last one was that Lavos doesn't seem to be anywhere in 2300ad. I was just proving that Thought's inherent suggestion that Lavos is still there was completely speculative, specially when his only proof for saying it is an inaccurate observation of how the world in Trigger might function.

As for where the hell could he be... I just don't know. Maybe he took off to other planets, or maybe he did in fact died after spawning the three lavos spawns. Who knows, right? That was my whole point. When it comes to Lavos, most (if not all) of our theories can only reach speculation leval, at best. We barely know anything about him!!

Using quotes to accent a post is great...but using quotes to answer quotes can be difficult unless you master the secret arts of the forum ninja/pirate/robots.

hehehe... who's to say that I haven't? lol

[V_Translanka]

Hmm...but the game states that Lavos is still there. Thus the speculation comes from whether he's NOT there.

[dankun]

Hmm...but the game states that Lavos is still there. Thus the speculation comes from whether he's NOT there.

That's debatable. It all depends on what exactly Belthasar tells the party. Which is why I said a 'direct quotation' was needed to correctly address the problem. And since no one seems willing to provide it....

To those who opened the door...

I am Belthasar, the Guru of Reason.
I once lived in the kingdom of Zeal.

A great disaster in Zeal somehow
threw me into this era.

To my surprise, Lavos exists here, and,
I suspect, in other periods as well.
Aeons ago, Lavos descended from the
heavens.

Burrowing deep into the the world's
core, he began to consume our planet's
energy, and grow stronger.
     
Lavos disappeared briefly when he
was summoned away by a mighty
wizard who lived in Guardia, in the
year 600.

In 1999, Lavos claims this area, and
reigns from high atop Death Peak.

Lavos continues to replicate......
like a giant parasite, he is consuming
our world.


Forced to live here, I continued to
conduct research on Lavos.

To those who opened the door......
I am the Philosopher of Reason, Gasch.
Gasch, of the Magic Kingdom Zeal.
I was flung to this age at the time of Zeal's
great disaster......

To my surprise, Lavos's appearance was not
just in my era......

It fell from the sky in a distant ancient era,
appeared in Zeal, lay dormant deep
underground, and continued to grow while
sucking up this earth's energy......

The time is Kingdom Year 600.
Magus summons it, and it briefly appears.

Kingdom Year 1999
It at last makes the surface its territory too.

And then, just as if laying eggs, it gives
birth to its own offshoots, one after another, [offshoots = 'bunshin', one of those words that doesn't translate
from the place I named Death Mountain.             well. Sort of, but not exactly,'clone'.]
       

Lavos is an enormous parasite that nests in
the planet itself.

I have continued the observation and study of
Lavos here.

Clearly, the matter is up to interpretation. As you can obviously tell from the translation differences. Notice the emphasized words and their counterparts. My interpretation is that he may have still been there, until just a few moments before the party needed to climb Death Peak.

Also notice the remarks he makes about studying Lavos as an organism. As demonstrated by the explanation he gives to the party about everything that Lavos was known to be responsible for, I believe that his research sufficed to enable him to predict when Lavos would decide to leave the planet.

In fact, this could give another meaning or function to what exactly the Poyozo Dolls were designed for. To study and observe Lavos and report to Belthasar about everything he did.