Crono Foreshadowing

[ZeaLitY]

Belthasar foreshadows that the party will have to climb Death Peak in 2300 A.D. Yet, how does Belthasar know he's going to die at the Ocean Palace?

Normally, I'd consider this some kind of huge oversight, like the fact that Yuji Horii wrote the concept of the Time Egg long before Masato Kato actually made 12000 B.C.

Anyway, the use of the Time Egg servers no other purpose than to revive Crono. It's tenuous as a result to ascribe this to the Entity's planning or Belthasar's awareness of its actions. What do you think?

It's been some time since I made an analysis forum thread. I am going to bring the hammer down on any fluffy, stupid posts. You know those two threads, "Why Crono?" and "Did Crono die when Porre attacked"? Yeah. 20 pages of absolute nothing. Let's try not to emulate that.

[Sora]

Belthasar foreshadows that the party will have to climb Death Peak in 2300 A.D. Yet, how does Belthasar know he's going to die at the Ocean Palace?

Normally, I'd consider this some kind of huge oversight, like the fact that Yuji Horii wrote the concept of the Time Egg long before Masato Kato actually made 12000 B.C.

yea, i havent played in like 6 years, so can we get some citation on these things? having live for line script here would really help.

[dankun]

All right, I might as well take a stab at this....

Belthasar foreshadows that the party will have to climb Death Peak in 2300 A.D. Yet, how does Belthasar know he's going to die at the Ocean Palace?

Well, if you consider that Janus already knew about this beforehand, then therein lies a possible answer. Think about it, it sounds kind of extreme to pretend that a little boy (no older than 4 years old) could predict right then and there that Crono would perish shortly (and I am of the idea that he actually knew for a fact it would be Crono and when he who would die, but refused to tell the party so as no to be discredited by them for the 'ramblings' of a crazy child).

If you are of the idea that Janus' black wind abilities are innate than this could work out for it:
Maybe Janus had already forseen this would happen through the interpretation of the Black Wind beforhand, and told Belthasar all about him and how he was going to die.

Rather maybe he was the one who taught him how to be sensible and be able to percieve and listen to the Black Wind's howls and as such, he already knew he would die as soon as he heard about it (in the Black Wind).
If this is true, perhaps Belthasar's own abilites exceed Janus' and he is able to tell not only when and who is close to death, but how it will happen.

Normally, I'd consider this some kind of huge oversight, like the fact that Yuji Horii wrote the concept of the Time Egg long before Masato Kato actually made 12000 B.C.

Wow, I would really like to know 'exactly' what it was that Kato rewrote into Hori's already made up script. That would clear up SO many things for us. Especially for us fans who regard Chrono Cross as the better game in the series.

Anyway, the use of the Time Egg servers no other purpose than to revive Crono. It's tenuous as a result to ascribe this to the Entity's planning or Belthasar's awareness of its actions. What do you think?

I think this could almost constitute yet another plot hole that could be added to CT's already identified ones. Probably the reason it's not listed there would be because of the fact that it's an incomplete plot hole. It is something that was simply left unexplained due to the fact, as you mention, that it was probably an oversight over the writers' different styles making up the game's plot.

[alpha]

Especially for us fans who regard Chrono Cross as the better game in the series.

  these people exist??? must have played cross first.. or be like my wife and hate most 16 bit characters...

[dankun]

these people exist??? must have played cross first.. or be like my wife and hate most 16 bit characters...

Yes, they exist and there's quite a few of them actually, specially here at the Compendium.
I'm proud to say I'm one of the them and that I actually played through Chrono Trigger first than Chrono Cross.

Actually I'm also kind of proud of the fact that I played through both games, shortly after their release dates. So yeah, I love them both (and Radical Dreamers too), but I like Cross FAR better than Trigger.

[Zaperking]

On the lines of what dankun was saying:

I think that Janus probably sensed Crono's death and told Belthasar. After all, I believe that the Guru's and Schala and Magus had a close connection, like the Guru's watched over them as their mother was always too busy for them.
It's explain why Melchior would try to save Janus from falling into the time gate and why Belthasar would put the world at risk to try and save Schala.

[maggiekarp]

Or, y'know... Belthasar's a crazy old coot. That theory always works.

[dankun]

On the lines of what dankun was saying:

I think that Janus probably sensed Crono's death and told Belthasar. After all, I believe that the Guru's and Schala and Magus had a close connection, like the Guru's watched over them as their mother was always too busy for them.

It's explain why Melchior would try to save Janus from falling into the time gate

Yeah, like I said that works out if you believe that only Janus could ever have that ability. However, if you really think about it, I think that Schala also had the ability, mainly due to the fact of what you're saying about how thay both had a closer connection to the Gurus.

So, if you follow this idea, then someone obviously had to teach them some (if not all) of their abilities. And one of those abilities could be being able to listen the 'Black Wind'. So my other theory could also work out, although it doesn't necessarily has to be Belthasar. As one of the other Gurus could have told Belthasar about it, as well.

and why Belthasar would put the world at risk to try and save Schala.

Or, y'know... Belthasar's a crazy old coot. That theory always works.

lol I really think it's funny how some people make out Belthasar to be some sort of crazy old man or a 'megalomaniac' or whatever, just because they don't fully understand why he would think that Project Kid was the only solution for him to be able to save Schala. In other words, in some cases, they just didn't quite understand Cross' plot or haven't played it enough, or just felt betrayed because in some way contradicts Trigger or something.

[maggiekarp]

CC "betrayed" CT in the sense that all the player characters that weren't killed off were basically ignored. Not to say I didn't love the game to death, I'm just willing to acknowledge the shortcomings of things I enjoy.

Insane!Belthesar is canon, for chrissakes.

[ZeaLitY]

On the lines of what dankun was saying:

I think that Janus probably sensed Crono's death and told Belthasar. After all, I believe that the Guru's and Schala and Magus had a close connection, like the Guru's watched over them as their mother was always too busy for them.
It's explain why Melchior would try to save Janus from falling into the time gate and why Belthasar would put the world at risk to try and save Schala.

How can Janus tell Belthasar before Crono ever visits Zeal?

[V_Translanka]

I think the Time Egg is merely a safeguard that he left in case one of the heroes (he seems to know there will not only BE a hero that opens the doorways, but actually plural) were to kick the bucket against the almighty power that be Lavos. I mean, it DID throw the Gurus through time...Heck, maybe Belthasar thought they could use it to restore HIM from death! lol. Gotta admit, Belthasar's pretty important too, right?

yea, i havent played in like 6 years, so can we get some citation on these things? having live for line script here would really help.

SCRIPTS

[dankun]

CC "betrayed" CT in the sense that all the player characters that weren't killed off were basically ignored. Not to say I didn't love the game to death, I'm just willing to acknowledge the shortcomings of things I enjoy.

Insane!Belthesar is canon, for chrissakes.

Ignored? Think again on that. They weren't ignored, well only two of them were and there were made allusions to them in the form of other characters. Lucca was killed by Lynx. Prometheus (Robo) served a 'great' purpose of stopping FATE from abusing the Frrozen Falme and designating Serge as the Arbiter. Crono and Marle appear as 'ghost' childs in several locations throughout the whole game, a long with Lucca. Hell, even Magus was alluded to in the lettter to Kid from Lucca.

So that leaves us with Frog and Ayla. Glenn and Turnip are a reference to Frog's both forms: Human and a... humanoid something. And Leah clearly is a throwback to Ayla. Even her techs are the same as hers.

So there you go, they weren't ignored.

[maggiekarp]

They weren't ignored, well only two of them were and there were made allusions to them in the form of other characters.

"Basically" ignored.

Lucca was killed by Lynx.

Killed.

Prometheus (Robo) served a 'great' purpose

Killed.

Crono and Marle appear as 'ghost' childs

Killed.

even Magus was alluded to

When the arguably most popular character of a game is only BRIEFLY ALLUDED TO in the sequel, you got problems. He's probably dead as well, frozen in the lands of obscurity.

(Glenn Turnip Leah)So there you go, they weren't ignored.

I don't think vague references or similar character designs really count.


I'm not saying I think CC should have just been another adventure for the 7 originals, but nothing you said really refutes my point. Most of the things people loved most about Trigger were killed (sometimes literally) in Cross and it ended up slightly more related to CT than Secret of Evermore is to FF6. People go ga-ga for a CT remake, but the game that desperately needs it is CC.

But I've said these things before, don't like deja vu feelings.

It's just a theory on why folks didn't like CC as a -direct- sequel to CT. It isn't, but that's what they wanted and hoped for.

[V_Translanka]

The ghost children aren't really Crono, Marle & Lucca...I still don't think that we have enough evidence to say that Crono & Marle are actually dead.

But no, while I might admit that Leah is obviously your basic Ayla-character, neither Glenn nor Turnip is Frog.

CC picks up where CT left off (well, 20 years later), it just doesn't happen to follow the same characters.

And Magus is out there! The DREAM WILL NEVER DIE!!!

[alpha]

you have to play radical dreamers.. the character in the intro Magil? that was magus. but that is a diferent point all together..

I think that Janus probably sensed Crono's death and told Belthasar. After all, I believe that the Guru's and Schala and Magus had a close connection, like the Guru's watched over them as their mother was always too busy for them.
It's explain why Melchior would try to save Janus from falling into the time gate and why Belthasar would put the world at risk to try and save Schala.

Remember that Gaspar and balthazar were both absent when the party reached zeal. and the animation in the game indicates that the three gurus were dragged off to their respective times before chrono and crew arrived to destroy the mammon machine


Chrono cross devietated from the spirit of the game slightly..
They went quantity over qualty on the characters there was not enough background or character development for 2/3ds of them and the other one third if they werent integral important points got minimal character development albiet more than the rest.
They tried to take radical dreamers and tie it into chrono trigger without tying it into chrono trigger at the same time they did a poor job..

Dont get me wrong I love chrono cross.. as a standalone game but it should have been kept as radical dreamers it really does not deserve the chrono name