Author Topic: The technological rise of Porre  (Read 10679 times)

jono

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The technological rise of Porre
« on: September 25, 2007, 11:26:31 pm »
Well this is s theory I was thinking about the other day, just wondering what people think before building on it to create a real scenario that could have occoured. If people poke holes through this idea then I wont worry about it :)

Reasoning behind my Theory

Recently I had a thought about the rise of Porre as a major military force and the consequent fall of the kingdom of Gardia. In the compendium's encyclopedia I stumbled on the following statement which is in regards to Porre's sudden technological advancement.

Quote
These technological wonders might have been introduced from the future by an intervening force, which would satisfy the requirement that the help originated from outside the flow of history.{1}

First, this illustrates the point that the 'influence from outside of the normal flow of time' does not necessarily have to be an individual or group of people, but could be an item, technology or other powerful knowledge (magic?).

However the statement makes the point that because the influence is from outside the normal flow of time, it may involve time travel from the future (because time travel was technologically not possible before 1000AD).

This is where my thought differed, my idea is that perhaps Porre comes into some ancient past knowledge that allows it to become a major military force. This ancient knowledge would have remained hidden if not for others who had accidentally changed history which satisfies the help from outside the normal flow of time.

Kato: "Porre had some kind of intervention or help originating outside of the original flow of history." {1}

This statement seems to me deliberately worded to exclude a major independent event occouring specifically to enhance Porre's power. The words "original flow of history" to me refer to the history before Crono and party went on their quest. With this in mind the statement could then mean that the 'intervention from outside' may have been a side effect of Crono's adventure that affected 'the original flow of history'.

So what I am getting at is that perhaps the cause of the fall of Gardia was a side effect of the actions of Crono and his party in a past era.

My theory

As explained above, my theory is based on the idea that Crono and party (or Magus) may have accidentally taken actions that effected history so that something of great importance survived and helped Porre to become a military power.

The obvious place to start is a place in the past where more powerful technology and knowledge (than in 1000AD) existed, my choice being Zeal. It can be seen that the inhabitants of Zeal placed great importance on writing and recording information, all the cities have many book shelves full of articles. There are also libraries and what seem like scholars reading and cataloging within these libraries (this point is reliant on my memory but I'm sure that there is at least one library in Zeal).

I believe that either Magus or Crono's party in some way caused some of the inhabitants of Zeal to hide/protect/store their treasured knowledge in such a way that this ancient library/archive of information could survive that Fall of Zeal and the 13,000 years afterwards.

As some parts of Zeal are seen in 1000AD (forest ruins/sealed pyramid), I believe that the place or containers that the ancient technology/information is stored in may also have survived and may be accessible to the people of Porre. This is pure speculation but perhaps the building on the inaccessible isle in the lower right of the Zeal islands could have been a library which may have fallen in the area of 1000AD Porre, if protected in some way some of the books may have survived.

I am unsure of what of exactly what the technology could be, where/how Porre may have stumbled on it, what Crono or Magus did to cause the survival of the information. But maybe there is some grain of information in the Chrono Trigger universe that could be interpreted to allow more details to be explored.

Final Words

Well unfortunately I'm not going to get time to go through and find instances that could help back up this theory so I'm just putting it forward as is, maybe someone will notice some detail that may credit it or completely discount it.

I haven't really presented this as well as I'd hoped. Please note that I'm not putting forward something that I believe should be taken as the absolute truth. This is a theory, maybe possible but really just speculation.

Thanks for reading, criticism and comments welcome :).

Sources.

1. Article- The rise of Porre: http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/The_Rise_of_Porre.html

alpha

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2007, 12:52:43 am »
two words
 red rock.

we had actually yhtough about this.. and we used choras.. instead of porre in a chron ostyle online game..((forum based)) guardia did not fall.. but if the porre found a stash of the red rock used in zeal and a few scripts about it.. there is much they could do with it

FaustWolf

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2007, 10:56:08 pm »
Sounds plausible to me, Jono. I figure that the Fall of Guardia could occur slightly differently in various dimensions.

You might also try looking not into the past for the cause, but the future. As Lucca says in her letter to Kid:

"...I worry that someone might seek revenge on us for what we did. I have had a constant dread in my heart that someone in our new future will travel back in time, just like we did, and try and kill or capture my friends and me."

I've always interpreted that quote as indicating Chrono Brake would feature some uber bad dude/lady from the non-Lavos dimension wrecking the time line, perhaps even leading Porre him-or-herself to serve some ingeniously evil end. However, it might refer to Lynx, the Time Devourer, or even FATE for all I know.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 06:42:23 pm by FaustWolf »

jono

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2007, 10:23:49 pm »
Quote
"...I worry that someone might seek revenge on us for what we did. I have had a constant dread in my heart that someone in our new future will travel back in time, just like we did, and try and kill or capture my friends and me."

I've always took this quote to be a reference to Lynx's actions at the orphanage. But I guess it is also possible that it could point to the cause of Guardia's fall.

Dark Serge

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2007, 05:20:12 pm »
Thats just a little so-so explanation to give the player a better impression of what happened to Lucca. No one really travelled back in time to kill her. Lynx killed her in his present timelime, he didn't travel through time for it.

Also Crono and Marle were killed by the Porre army when they crushed Guardia, and I doubt the Porre army was able to time travel.

jono

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 12:03:42 am »
Actually there is no proof that Crono and Marle did pass away, it is possible, however it is also completely possible that they survived the fall of Gaurdia. Have a look at this article:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Fall_of_Guardia_%28Details_of%29.html

Dark Serge

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 11:24:29 am »
I agree in Chrono Cross the hint is given multiple times that they're still alive. But there's also a hint given that they're dead. Lucca says at Opassa Beach that they no longer exist in this world. That's actually pretty much all the evidence you need to confirm they're all dead.

Why they gave the hint that they might still be alive, beats me. Looks like Square wasn't thinking here.
But it would be very rare would they have survived the attack on Guardia. And with Lucca herself saying they no longer exist, it pretty much means they're dead.

justin3009

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 03:31:57 pm »
Do they appear on both another world and home world?  If not then re-read what you said say "Doesn't exist in THIS world".  It could possibly say that they're not alive in that current world but are in another one.  Then again, I really have no clue how they would project themselves like that.

maggiekarp

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 04:49:15 pm »
If Marle dies, what the hell happens to Doan and her other descendants?

Dark Serge

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2007, 09:37:34 pm »
If Marle dies, what the hell happens to Doan and her other descendants?

What do you think... They would all simply disappear

Chrono'99

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2007, 12:01:57 pm »
Quote
"...I worry that someone might seek revenge on us for what we did. I have had a constant dread in my heart that someone in our new future will travel back in time, just like we did, and try and kill or capture my friends and me."

I've always took this quote to be a reference to Lynx's actions at the orphanage. But I guess it is also possible that it could point to the cause of Guardia's fall.

But when has Lynx ever traveled back in time?

Dark Serge

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2007, 03:28:53 pm »
Do they appear on both another world and home world?  If not then re-read what you said say "Doesn't exist in THIS world".  It could possibly say that they're not alive in that current world but are in another one.  Then again, I really have no clue how they would project themselves like that.

Hmm okay they only appear in Home World. But Lucca says they don't exist in this timeline anymore.
I don't how to interpret that, did they die or did they just disappear from the Home World timeline?
And is Home World even a timeline itself?

A screenshot:


Nickolz

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2007, 01:47:18 am »
Hmm, I'd say the topic has just run away from its original purpose. o.o

So, back to the rise of Porre, I'd like to add something that might be interesting (or not).

Once, I spent some time analysing the maps of CT. When I compared the maps of both 1000AD and 2300AD, I thought the Sun Palace ruins seemed to be located on the same place where Porre would be.

Considering that's a fact, the Sun Palace would probably have been buried right below Porre for ages, since the fall of Zeal. In a new timeline, Porre might have discovered it and developed various researches with the Moon Stone and all the technology found there.

Full map of 1000AD
Full map of 2300AD

maggiekarp

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2007, 02:04:34 am »
Well, I'm not sure if it was referenced in CC, but didn't they say in RD that Viper Manor was built over the ruins of Zeal, and the last fight took place there?

Chrono'99

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Re: The technological rise of Porre
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2007, 05:18:57 am »
Well, I'm not sure if it was referenced in CC, but didn't they say in RD that Viper Manor was built over the ruins of Zeal, and the last fight took place there?

That's only in RD, and Viper Manor is distinct from the Empire of Porre/just Porre in both games anyway. However, Luccia does mention that Grobyc's StrongArm (found in Chronopolis) was excavated near some ruins:

Quote
Luccia:
   I cannot believe dis...!
   It is an ancient super veapon.
   I do recall my brotter
   talking about dis.
   ...About a super veapon that vas
   excavated near an ancient ruin.
   According to him, dere vere not
   enough parts to complete it,
   but dis shows othervise.
   Dis vould have been
   Grobyc's exclusive veapon.
   I must bring Grobyc here.

Grobyc:
   This-cannot-be...
   This-is-the-ancient-super
   weapon-that-was-in
   development-in-Porre.
   But-what-is-it-doing-here?
   It-looks-complete.

Could the StrongArm have been excavated in the Sun Palace, discovered by Porre as Nickolz suggests? This would be kind of ironic; Porre would find there the "past" version of the Sun Stone, while the "future" version that they also found at some point was taken back from them by Crono's party.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 05:21:03 am by Chrono'99 »