Okay, Chrono Cross Textures

[FaustWolf]

I agree with the observation that PSicture isn't ripping everything there is to rip. The missing stuff might be in a different format than the stuff we've got (which would necessitate a new plugin for PSicture, and the person who coded the program has vanished from the Internet as far as I know).

On an interesting side note, PSicture can only see 8385 files on Disc 1 when it's ripped the "wrong" way and 9743 files on Disc 1 when it's ripped the "right" way. I'm not sure what's causing this phenomenon, though. This is all before duplication removal, of course.

Zeality, can you remind me real quick how far you have to be in the game to see the signs in Termina? Is it in Home or Another, or both perhaps? I'm going to snatch some gamesaves from GameFAQs and examine a VRAM dump when I can see the signs. There is a very slight chance some textures might show up in a VRAM dump. Usually I only do this for sprite ripping and the like.

I wonder if 3D images are also stored in VRAM, simply waiting for a program capable of viewing them. Is anyone around here familiar enough with VRAM to know?

If the .iso could somehow be decompressed, we'd be able to get at everything - models, textures, animations, and all. Only problem is figuring out what compression routine Square used on this game. Bah, I should have majored in Computer Science after all.

[ZeaLitY]

Shouldn't be that far in. IIRC, somewhere on Gamefaqs is a save on Opassa Beach at the end of the game.

[FaustWolf]

Maybe I won't have to try the VRAM out after all -- check out the .BIK file thread Zeality.

Though PSicture wasn't able to rip quite as many files from the disc 1 .BIKs as from the entire disc 1 iso taken as a whole.

[Chrono'99]

Woah, interesting stuff. The unknown character seems to wear different cloths than Toma XIV; he wears an armor and is missing the hat. He looks kind of like an older version of Tata though; could it be him? How dramatic for us that the face is undrawn (not that it would help us identify him but...).

[FaustWolf]

BREAKING NEWS

Click on the first image's URL to view. Didn't want to make 56k users suffer. Here's what I found in a VRAM dump taken during time spent in Termina...


http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1940/example1zv5.jpg
First up, looks like we should be able to access the prerendered backgrounds, though they're choppy in VRAM. If we can get an army of VRAM explorers going, the Compendium could have "Rebuild Termina! Week" and "Rebuild Opassa Beach! Week," etc., and possibly use the building materials available to expand on these locales without having to take screenshot after screenshot. But maybe my idea of fun isn't compatible with everyone else's.


I wanted to post this dragon emblem thingy because I thought it looked cool. Don't worry about the color; I couldn't take the time to find the right scheme in the VRAM's color lookup table.


OMG! Do you see Glenn's boot in that image? Do you see Glenn's boot!? Zeality, did PSicture grab that already, or is this slightly new? Perhaps we can get all of everyone's textures after all.


Stuff PSicture already pulled, but in a nice sepia color because I didn't find the right position in the color lookup table (CLUT) quickly.


Some random stuff. Just wanted to make sure we've already got all this through PSicture.

If anyone's interested in pursuing the fine art of ePSXe VRAM exploration and doesn't mind working with THE MOST USER-UNFRIENDLY PROGRAM EVER, then take a look at this thread at DragonTear.net for the tutorial from which I learned:
http://www.dragon-tear.net/forum/showpost.php?p=188751&postcount=23

And if I may insert a shameless plug, will everybody please, please oh please look at the .BIK file thread who hasn't done so already? I'm still on the fence as to whether it represents a Chrono Cross breakthrough or not, but it has proven quite tantalizing so far.

[ZeaLitY]

Craaap, another curse that I can't look at this until late tonight! I'm going to be thinking about it constantly for several hours.

Getting those prerendered backgrounds is a major coup. I guess this means that the blue / green picture in Lucca's house can't be magnified like the others, and will forever remain a low-resolution memory.

BUT FINALLY, LOCATIONS CAN BE ADDED TO THE ENCYCLOPEDIA! We can finally GRAPHICALLY explore and archive Chrono Cross to the point of perfection! Now I'm glad I didn't try and make a sacrificial effort to make a bunch of printscreen shots. We're really deconstructing the game here and it's paying off extreme dividends.

[FaustWolf]

Zeality, if we can't find a way to rip backgrounds straight from the iso soon, I'd happily collect the "tiles" from Chrono Cross' various pre-rendered locations - maybe one location per week. It's really not too much work at all now that I'm practiced in VRAM dumping - a half hour every Saturday morning should be sufficient. We'll need several people willing to invest the time in assembling the locations, however, as that's the meat of the work to be done. Anyone who owns a copy of PaintShop Pro, Adobe Photoshop or another high-end image editing application would be a good candidate; I don't know about using Microsoft Paint, since I find it so unwieldy personally. I can provide reference screenshots for the assemblers of course, since those come with the VRAM dump anyway.

If we get a good system going, we can get all the locations without those pesky NPCs in the way of the scenery. Recruitment drive time?

[ZeaLitY]

I'll definitely take anything you throw at me. I've been putting together Termina as a proof of concept, and it's snapping together nicely. But some of the Termina data was omitted in the example, right? Because like the middle of Lisa's shop door is nowhere to be found...

Yep, that menu stuff and Glenn's model are in there. I'm guessing TIM files = all the dynamic textures. It explains why all the menu stuff, lighting, element effects, and battle textures are in there, yet nothing for the actual locations (except dynamic stuff in itself, like the computer / brain displays in Chronopolis).

Sooo, it looks like the main textures are stored somewhere else, perhaps in a different format. We might be able to extort some information out of Terminus Traduction (or Yazoo, who left them I think). They managed to rip and retranslate the entire script of Chrono Cross, so that means they know something about decompression. In fact, here's the utilities they used:

http://chronofan.com/Black/Other/Chrono_Cross_-_Translation_tools.zip

[Vehek]

Don't know if this helps, but FF7 used MIM files for its field backgrounds, and I think FF8 also uses MIM files.
(MIM is some format Square made; QhimmWiki says it's a truncated TIM file.)

http://wiki.qhimm.com/PSX/TIM_file

[FaustWolf]

Yeah Zeality, the Termina VRAM dump example I posted was just a taste. There's more to be had. I'll get a complete rip of Termina next Saturday morning unless we magically solve the .BIK conundrum before then and find everything in there. If you need it before next Saturday, though, for a site update or anything, I can shift my Hexadecimal exploration schedule to accomodate.

I'll be taking a look at those Chrono Cross tools as well. Thanks for the link.

Vehek, that's extremely helpful to know. You don't happen to have a .MIM on hand, do you? Or is there some way to tell what the hex would look like on a .MIM based on what's in the wiki? The Qhimm wiki gives some generalities about how many bytes to expect in a header, etc., etc., but I'd like to get a concrete example if possible.

[Vehek]

http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7/Field/MIMfile
Don't know if you saw that, but I'm posting it anyway.
I don't own the PSX version of FF7, so the only FF7 MIM files I have are from Q-gears (before they were removed to avoid copyright infringement.)
Hope there isn't too much trouble if I post it here as an attachment. It's compressed with LZSS compression.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[ZeaLitY]

Okay. Well, don't worry about it for now. If push comes to shove, that method is sure proof for mapping the entire game. However...to do it properly, we'd have to solve that room modifier code so we could make sure we've accessed every last room in the game.

Ah, so many new developments.

[FaustWolf]

Thanks Vehek!

[ZeaLitY]

I'm going to try http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,4187.msg72985.html#msg72985 again, and maybe pass it around the hacking community.

[FaustWolf]

I'll get my ePSXe going with a Gameshark-compatible cheat program / plugin to make VRAM dumps of whatever otherwise-inaccessible locations you find, Zeality. And we could probably use the program to make background ripping quicker in general.