About demi-humans and Mystics

[Oswego del Fuego]

Just curious what everybody thinks.

What is the difference between Mystics and demi-humans?  Personally, I think that the Mystics are just one sect of demi-humans--specifically, the ones who followed Magus and are centered in Medina.  However, the games aren't definitive on this.

What are demi-humans, anyway?  Anything that's as an intelligent as a human, but isn't a human, nu, robot, or reptite/dragonian/dragon?  Can a mermaid demi-human and an insect demi-human interbeed?  If so, what would the result be? A waterbug?

Also, if the Mystics are demi-humans, then what about Flea?  Flea appears to be a full-blooded human wizard, like Magus, even though Mystics hate humans.

I'd really like to hear whatever theories y'all might have.

OdF

[Leebot]

I believe the mystics and demi-humans are completely (or mostly) unrelated. The mystics are a catch-all race of non-sentient non-humans that existed naturally in the world. The demi-humans, however, are of Dragonian descent, and came into existence due to the Time Crash et al.

[GreenGannon]

Some of them (Macha, Korcha, Mel etc.) May have, far back in the line had Humans and Dragonians interbreed. If that's even possible.

[dpodubs]

Now at the end of CC don't the dimensions unify into one timeline, unaffected by the Time Devourer? If this is true aren't the demi-humans wiped out and couldn't the same be said for the mystics?? I might be confused or lost....can someone enlighten me on this. Thanks!!

[Oswego del Fuego]

I believe the mystics and demi-humans are completely (or mostly) unrelated. The mystics are a catch-all race of non-sentient non-humans that existed naturally in the world. The demi-humans, however, are of Dragonian descent, and came into existence due to the Time Crash et al.

It is not stated that the demi-humans of Marbule are those driven off of the Zenan mainland by Porre?

Yes, it is.  I found the quote.  It's from the mantis-like fellow near the entrance of Another's Guldove:

"The demi-humans in this village get along with humans.  But many others of our kind still hold a grudge against humans.  Those that were driven off the mainland gathered to build the village of Marbule.  It's on the big island way down southeast from here."

That suggests to me that demi-humans are not peculiar to El Nido.  Of course it is possible that demi-humans from El Nido relocated to the mainland at some point, but as wary as they are of humans, this is difficult for me to imagine.  Besides, they say repeatedly that they were content in El Nido prior to the arrival of humans.  There's also FATE to stop them from leaving, just as she stops the Arni poetess from leaving, through subtle manipulation.

Secondly, how can a demi-human like Janice, who is basically a human girl with a rabbit's ears, be either a full-blooded Dragonian descendant, or the result of a Human-Reptite breeding pair?  Perhaps some demi-humans are the descendants of such offspring, but they can't all be, since demi-human types vary from mermaids to insects to felines (and I don't mean Lynx).

I also don't see why you suggest that the Mystics were non-sentient.  I assume you must refer to them as they were pre-Magus.  Even if so, however, I don't see how they could be non-sentient when Ozzie was fully dressed in human-type clothes when Janus was found.  Animals don't make, or wear, sophisticated clothing.  Also, it seemed to me that Ozzie was ordering his Imp followers to attack Janus.  This suggests a higher intelligence--they ability to command, and the ability to understand a command and obey.

I'm not insisting I'm right on this issue, nor do I merely seek to be argumentative, but I don't see how you're arriving at your conclusions based on the data presented in the games themselves.  Perhaps I'm missing something?

To dpodubs:  The Mystics/demi-humans existed long before the dimensions split, so they would still exist after any unification.

OdF

[Leebot]

Oh, that "non-sentient" was a typo. I meant to say "sentient non-humans." What I'd originally meant about demi-humans is that they have some human blood and some Dragonian blood (or maybe mystic, I guess).

[koolkame]

Could the Mystics that live in Medina have their origins in Zeal? On the Mountain of Woe there color-swapped versions of enemies in Magus' Castle, and before that the entrance was guarded by a Mud Imp, the earliest Imp in CT's timeline. He taunted us and sicced his monsters on, showing he had human-like intelligence. The Ocean Palace had monsters similar to ones in 2300 A.D. (ex. the one-eyed fliers) so maybe Zeal experimented with genetic engineering?

On demi-humans, I have a theory that dwarves, fairies, and possible even Mermaids are descendents of humans (unaltered by Lavos) that survived the Reptite attacks. They were brought over during the Time Crash (possibly as servants of the Dragonites) and Mermaids are able to interbreed with humans.

[Dunsparce]

The Demi-humans look nothing like mystics. I believe mystics are sophisticated bi-pedal monsters. They do, after all, look just like monsters seen throughout the game. Demi-humans look more human-like. After all, they are called Demi-HUMANS.

[Hadriel]

The Imps are certainly humanoid, as are Ozzie, Flea, and Slash.  I'm inclined to believe that they're one and the same.

[Oswego del Fuego]

Oh, that "non-sentient" was a typo. I meant to say "sentient non-humans." What I'd originally meant about demi-humans is that they have some human blood and some Dragonian blood (or maybe mystic, I guess).

Never mind then. Though I still disagree with you, I do see where you're coming from.

The Demi-humans look nothing like mystics. I believe mystics are sophisticated bi-pedal monsters. They do, after all, look just like monsters seen throughout the game. Demi-humans look more human-like.

What does a monster look like?  We have imps, blue chickens, blobs, snake girls, mushroom-lizard hybrids, et al.

What does a demi-human look like?  We have mermaids, fairies, dwarves, insects, cat people, fish people, et al.

My only point is that it's not so easy to say THIS looks like a monster, while THIS looks like a demi-human.  I would argue that Joe the Piano Man is both a monster and a demi-human.  Ozzie is a monster, a Mystic, a demi-human.

Flea's the only one I'm not sure about.

After all, they are called Demi-HUMANS.

Yes, DEMI-humans, as in less-than-human or part-human.  Joe the Piano man lives in a human society and seems to be on about the "same level" as his human neighbors.  So, why can't he qualify as a demi-human, too?

(Heh, and that was in Porre to boot!)

The Imps are certainly humanoid, as are Ozzie, Flea, and Slash. I'm inclined to believe that they're one and the same.

Sweet.

OdF

[Symmetry]

Perhaps the difference between Mystics and Demi-humans is not a genetic one but a sociological one?

We see the term Mystics being used for those who gathered to fight Guardia, right? (As well as their descendants) My thinking is that Mystics are a subset of Demi-humans.

(Edit: I misread the original post earlier and now realize that this indeed what was claimed in the original post. My bad.)

[Hadriel]

Sounds sensible -- I don't know what entire race would call themselves Mystics.  That's just weird.

[Oswego del Fuego]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it, too.

Good!  I was starting to think I was the only one who saw it that way.  

OdF

[Chrono'99]

Sounds sensible -- I don't know what entire race would call themselves Mystics.  That's just weird.

Mystics were named "Mazoku" though (I think it means monsters or something like that) in the Japanese CT. That's also a name used in Dragon ball.

Well, I've just realized what I said doesn't prove anything, but eh...

[koolkame]

Flea's the only one I'm not sure about.

Who is? Actually, official artwork of Flea shows, ahem, him to have pointed ears similar to Slash and Ozzie's, or maybe even Magus'. One could go on with theories about Flea being a magically (and perhaps not just in that area) enhanced human but I won't get into that as I have no evidence to support that, and the one theory I just though up isn't a pretty one.  

Mystics were named "Mazoku" though (I think it means monsters or something like that) in the Japanese CT. That's also a name used in Dragon ball.

Don't know about the Japanese name, but I do remember Joe the piano man. "Monster" is a generic term in RPGs, as we all know, though one could read into the statement as a term describing a demographic like non-human sentients. "Demon" or "youkai" in the anime Inuyasha actually translates closer to nature spirits than the more negative connotations used in the English dub, as I've heard fans point out.

Monster makes demi-human sound better by far, but maybe Joe is an exception and other Kilwalas are anti-social and violent towards humans. We don't know. I'm not sure what year Joe was found in ( 1,000 A.D. I think, correct me if I'm wrong) or the appearances of the wild Kilwala in the game besides 65, 000, 000 B.C. There the little fuzzballs could be found dancing around a rock in a sort of ritual, so the species was apparently intelligent enough to recognize repetition of an action.

So Kilwalas, or at least the Family of Kilwalas, has been around since the times of the Reptites and early humanity. Whether they were sentient then or evolved to be we don't know, but the fact remains an intelligent species that has been around since the dinosaurs is (probably) lumped together in standard conversation with the Mystics that followed Magus, at least racially. There may not share genetic ancestry at all, but they do have one thing in common; they aren't human, the dominant race on the planet. No Kilwalas fought you in Medina in 1,000 A.D., and did anyone see the Kilwala Brigade stationed in Magus' Castle?
They were pretty tough. (Just kidding.)

I don't recall the term monster being used to describe demi-humans in CC, but I vaguely remember that the villagers in Arni may have called Serge (Lynx), Harle, and Sprigg that after his change (and even with Radius in the party! The chief may have whacked his buddy, but he was not intolerant.)

In short (too late for that, I guess) I submit that "monster" is probably a generic though not politically correct term for non-human, sentient creatures. "Demi-human" is similar, though more PC in its use. As for Mystics, I'm thinking of another example in gaming: the Covenant in the Halo games, a religious order of various alien races that also has a hatred of humanity.

Halo 2 rocks, BTW.