Lavos' shell is a spaceship?

[Sora]

What if Lavos' shell is some kind of living spaceship, and the core of Lavos is the pilot? When we think of Lavos I think of a big porcupine, but maybe we should just think of this as a tool. As for the second form, I believe that is just the Lavos equivalent to a Gundam, and that the core is what Lavos truly is; However, I am perplexed as to weather the humanoid in the center is the true Lavos, or the bit on the right. since the right bit is the strongest, and can revive the core it would make since for the right bit to be Lavos.

[Thought]

What, exactly, is Lavos? Is he the core, the bits, the 2nd form, or the shell? I would propose that that is a false dichotomy. Why should we assume that Lavos' shell/2nd form is any less Lavos than the Lavos Core and Bits (I do hope I am not the only one to recognize the really bad double entendre)? They are Lavos and the only thing that ever implies otherwise are a few battles. Given that the Time Devourer resembles the outer shell more than the inner bits, I am inclined to think that any part of Lavos can be a legitimate representation for Lavos as a whole.

Lavos is an alien, after all, should we not expect him (she, they, it, yous, we, whatever) to have an alien biology that is fundamentally unlike anything on Earth? We are familiar with multi-cellular organisms; might Lavos then just be a multi-organism organism, particularly if we take it as the opposite of the Earth itself (as per the Gaia Hypothesis)?

To use a cellular analogy, the shell seems to be the cell wall/membrane, the 2nd form could be seen as the nucleus (or Lysosomes/Peroxisomes), the Lavos Core as its "DNA," and the bits as its RNA. As a whole they form a functioning cell.

Such an analogy seems to be particularly pleasing when one considers the virus-like nature of Lavos. It infects a healthy entity (the earth), feeds off it until that entity dies, altering the host's DNA and its own genetic code, and in the death of both the host organism and original virus it releases new spores to go off infecting more entities.

Just a,

Thought

[Radox Redux]

I prefer to think of Lavos as an entity which includes the shell, 2nd form and teh bits. It's true that you can think of Lavos' Shall as a spaceship and the being inside as the 'true' Lavos. But you can also think of the 2nd form as being merely a brain. At the end of the day, I think the shell is as much Lavos as the 2nd form is.

[Chrono'99]

The Lavos Spawns sort of make the spaceship theory unlikely.

[justin3009]

Lavos's shell is just a protective barrier...As you said, kinda like a porcupine.  The innards I...I really don't quite get.  I don't think he'd have 2 bodies of himself inside himself...seems really weird.  I guess you could say one was his "control center" where he manipulated the shell to do w/e and the final form is his brain.  Lavos is annoying ;/

[Sora]

Lavos is annoying ;/

We have reached the pinical of the discussion. with this truth let all others be laid to rest!

[Geiger]

I am of the opinion that this is a subject that was stated, but poorly explained.  It might be best to think of Lavos as a being not dissimilar to Galatea of Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040.  Lavos is capable of altering his own DNA, and thus evolving at will.

The early battles where Lavos imitates other beings from throughout history lend credence to this theory, as well as several statements about Lavos absorbing and altering the DNA of the planet's creatures.  Each time a form is defeated, Lavos evolves into something stronger.  Lavos finally decides that all of these other forms are inferior to his native form and evolves back to his original state.

This "shell" is the "real" Lavos until he is defeated by the PCs.  At this point, Lavos knows he's in trouble, so he speeds up his evolution and starts to change to more closely resemble the planet's dominate lifeform (humans).  He is in the middle of this evolution when the PCs climb through his innards in an attempt to end his threat once and for all.  After being unsuccessful again, he speeds his evolution up still more to produce the final form (with the "bits").

Now I can only speculate on this part, but I think Lavos can tap into the pure energy of the Tesseract, which is why his power is nearly limitless and so destructive.  In a final attempt to defeat the PCs, he draws himself and them into the Tesseract so he can tap into that power more directly.  I think this was his fatal flaw, because I am not convinced that the PCs could have permanently destroyed him on the physical plane (how do you kill something that can evolve at will?).  After the PCs defeat him again, here in the Tesseract, he becomes inert and only exists outside timespace as we know it.

Then he bumps into Schala, who had been sucked into the Tesseract herself thanks to the destruction of the Ocean Palace, and we run into the plot of Chrono Cross.

[MagilsugaM]

If Lavos is an alien why he can;t have a mather becoause he is only a spawn of some older creature from another planet .In the death pick Lucca says that Lavos espread the spawns to infects others planets so perhaps there are more Lavos.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

my thinking is more in line with THOUGHT...

[Thought]

Just two quick thoughts about the changes in Lavos' nature;

Assuming that there are other Lavoids out there, do we have any reason to expect them to look similar to earth's Lavos?

When we see Lavos flying through space, he appears as a spiky ball/sphere, yet when we see him on earth he is always an odd porcupine thing. Is the other half of his "sphere" just buried underground still, is this just a change in graphics for no apparent reason, or might this indicate how Lavos has changed (including his exterior shell) during his time on Earth (as in, after studying earth life, it changed its shell away from a sphere, seeing it as beneficial to have a definite anterior and posterior)?

[Anacalius]

I don't like the "living spaceship" theory too much. Lavos is clearly a organism that can reproduce (Lavos Spawns on Death Peak).

If Lavos is an alien why he can;t have a mather becoause he is only a spawn of some older creature from another planet .In the death pick Lucca says that Lavos espread the spawns to infects others planets so perhaps there are more Lavos.

First of all, by "mather" I assume you mean "Mother", in which case of course he does, though I don't think Lavos organisms are gender specific. Lavos came by itself and managed to bear children on Death Peak, so this shows that it is an asexual being. Of course, it has a "parent", if you will, which must have given birth to it the same fashion that Lavos gives birth to the spawns on Death Peak. And I absolutely think that there are more Lavos in the Chrono Universe, how many planets could be falling victim to these beings? =P

When we see Lavos flying through space, he appears as a spiky ball/sphere, yet when we see him on earth he is always an odd porcupine thing. Is the other half of his "sphere" just buried underground still, is this just a change in graphics for no apparent reason, or might this indicate how Lavos has changed (including his exterior shell) during his time on Earth (as in, after studying earth life, it changed its shell away from a sphere, seeing it as beneficial to have a definite anterior and posterior)?

I think that's just a lack of graphics work by Square, or as you put it, a change in graphics for no apparent reason. I'm sure it was intended for you to view that "Spiky Ball" as the porcupine thingie we normally see. That's not the first part of CT that was messed up due to laziness or W/E happened with Square (Marle disappears for no reason in 600 A.D.), so I say don't elaborate too much on the fact that Lavos looks different in space than on Earth.

What, exactly, is Lavos? Is he the core, the bits, the 2nd form, or the shell? I would propose that that is a false dichotomy. Why should we assume that Lavos' shell/2nd form is any less Lavos than the Lavos Core and Bits (I do hope I am not the only one to recognize the really bad double entendre)? They are Lavos and the only thing that ever implies otherwise are a few battles. Given that the Time Devourer resembles the outer shell more than the inner bits, I am inclined to think that any part of Lavos can be a legitimate representation for Lavos as a whole.

Lavos is an alien, after all, should we not expect him (she, they, it, yous, we, whatever) to have an alien biology that is fundamentally unlike anything on Earth? We are familiar with multi-cellular organisms; might Lavos then just be a multi-organism organism, particularly if we take it as the opposite of the Earth itself (as per the Gaia Hypothesis)?

To use a cellular analogy, the shell seems to be the cell wall/membrane, the 2nd form could be seen as the nucleus (or Lysosomes/Peroxisomes), the Lavos Core as its "DNA," and the bits as its RNA. As a whole they form a functioning cell.

Such an analogy seems to be particularly pleasing when one considers the virus-like nature of Lavos. It infects a healthy entity (the earth), feeds off it until that entity dies, altering the host's DNA and its own genetic code, and in the death of both the host organism and original virus it releases new spores to go off infecting more entities.

Just a,

Thought

Great post, and I certainly always thought Lavos to be a multi-organism-organism like you are suggesting (Though I never put this much thought into it). It's safe to say that your post here is probably the best way to view Lavos, and quite possibly, the only reasonable one. =P

[Kebrel]

In reply to the image problem, think less porcupines more hedge hog. There is no reason he couldn't curl up, in fact it would be ideal for planet entry.

[Generality]

Every complex organism is a multi-organism. Our bodies are made up of billions of individual living cells functioning together. In a very real way, each of our various organs and supportive systems is its own living thing, though one wholly dependent upon the continued function of its neighbors.

In truth, the term "organism" is a very vague one. In terms of mutual survival cooperation, a nation or city can be considered just as alive as a human being, and exhibits the same basic survival methods.

The point is, the Lavos shell can be considered its own separate entity, but it is also a part of a more complex and integrated system that is the whole of Lavos, and includes the individual cores that control that system. No one part is any more the "true" Lavos than any other.

[BROJ]

I don't like the "living spaceship" theory too much. Lavos is clearly a organism that can reproduce (Lavos Spawns on Death Peak).

I never looked at Lavos as "living", but rather an artificial intelligence(a weapon/research vehicle ala Deus-Xenogears) so it's not much of a stretch to think that 'his' shell could be a space/time vehicle capable of sterilizing an entire planet(seriously do you think an organism can shoot massive amounts of pure energy from 'his' back? ). Take a look at Lavos' original design and cell first form from DBZ(one of Toriyama's other works):

it's zoomed out and has more of a mechanical feel than the later organic adaptation. And notice how he looks like cell's first form ; he could be 'devouring' the entity/entity's energy just like cell did with the other androids in an attempt to evolve.(a possible crossover, hmm..?)

Not to mention, just like Lavos, Cell used 'other' organisms to further his evolution as well. (the similarities are endless...)

[Anacalius]

I never looked at Lavos as "living", but rather an artificial intelligence(a weapon/research vehicle ala Deus-Xenogears) so it's not much of a stretch to think that 'his' shell could be a space/time vehicle capable of sterilizing an entire planet(seriously do you think an organism can shoot massive amounts of pure energy from 'his' back? ). Take a look at Lavos' original design and cell first form from DBZ(one of Toriyama's other works):

it's zoomed out and has more of a mechanical feel than the later organic adaptation. And notice how he looks like cell's first form ; he could be 'devouring' the entity/entity's energy just like cell did with the other androids in an attempt to evolve.(a possible crossover, hmm..?)

Not to mention, just like Lavos, Cell used 'other' organisms to further his evolution as well. (the similarities are endless...)

I see your point, but would such a thing be able to reproduce on it's own?