Author Topic: Gate Color Theory.  (Read 7465 times)

BROJ

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2008, 05:01:09 pm »
Was the one on Opassa Beach purple? Or was that the one to the whakky space of Sprigg's house?
I think that one was green.

I dunno...there's a lot there that's hard to explain about that because of game mechanics.
True, but it's fun to speculate.  :)

As for regressing Time Error; it can't be done.

Hence the quotes. As the green gate takes one to a point that should only exist in the Time Error Past, it is taking the player to a point that shouldn't exist at all.
My bad, I misread what you said.

And what happens to a timeline after Time Error progresses beyond the point where it is no longer viable? It is sent to the Darkness Beyond Time (where Time Error Past "exists," in a manner of speaking). Thus I am essentially claiming that the Green Gate actually takes one to the DBT.
Very good...  :) I must say; I like that theory.

Side note, we never see Time or Time Error accelerated [...], do we? People move around it, jump back at forth in it, but Time always progresses at one second per second, as does Time Error. Even Belthasar couldn't do that ;)
I could, however, argue that since, in a blue, green, and red gate, it takes a specified amount of time to get to point A to point B, time is actually accelerated(and it can be decelerated as phenomena such as gravity might affect the gate) or regressed at a given rate of change(4-D gates ONLY) and since change, in 1~3-D can be accelerated to less than c(speed of light--what ever it is in the Chronoverse), I merely, reasonably, proposed that rate of change in that dimension can also be modified.

(and decelerated is just redundant)
That it may be... But, my intention was to try to keep it as "non-Calculus" as I could.

opening/activating the hole in reality.
Just a side note and food for thought(no that was not a pun... :roll:): Dimensions 1-6(if 6 exists) involve the fabric of space-time; nothing really to do with reality(although Sprigg's gate and, if you're right about the green gate, might involve yet "higher" dimensions--those of reality--ones that govern the basic forces, speed of light, etc., ironically allowing regression of time error.), since the differences in the two dimensions(Home/Another) are scenario-wise, and given enough time, they are negligible. Then again there just might be a difference in semantics, but I figured I'd keep this part to bring about discussion.

Thought

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2008, 05:34:54 pm »
Very good...  :) I must say; I like that theory.

Thanks. However, as I noted before, if the Green Gate actually takes one to a timeline that shouldn't exist (I'd claim that the importance is on that the time line shouldn't exist, not that it takes one to the DBT), then the gate that takes the party to the apocalyptic 2300 AD should also be Green (as 2300 AD should exist sans apocalypse at any point after Lavos is defeated, except in the DBT). However, I think every other time period would still have a blue gate under this theory.

Curiously, this really just shifts around what we'd discard as the game mechanic. Either the Green gate is just a way for the programmers to tell us that THAT gate was different, or the Blue Gate to Apocalypse is just because reason wasn't implemented to the game... or something like that
>.>
<.<
<.>

I could, however, argue that since, in a blue, green, and red gate, it takes a specified amount of time to get to point A to point B, time is actually accelerated(and it can be decelerated as phenomena such as gravity might affect the gate) or regressed at a given rate of change(4-D gates ONLY) and since change, in 1~3-D can be accelerated to less than c(speed of light--what ever it is in the Chronoverse), I merely, reasonably, proposed that rate of change in that dimension can also be modified.

But would that be true acceleration or just a shift of perspective? I always thought that as one approached the speed of light, time itself remains constant but that our perception of time (or more exactly, time's effect on us) is reduced. Anywho...

Kebrel

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 07:21:14 pm »

Thanks. However, as I noted before, if the Green Gate actually takes one to a timeline that shouldn't exist (I'd claim that the importance is on that the time line shouldn't exist, not that it takes one to the DBT), then the gate that takes the party to the apocalyptic 2300 AD should also be Green (as 2300 AD should exist sans apocalypse at any point after Lavos is defeated, except in the DBT). However, I think every other time period would still have a blue gate under this theory.

To be more specific shouldn't the 2300AD gate be green only AFTER you unlock Newgame+. In the end the gate is still blue but they make not that its not the destroyed 2300AD anymore.

BROJ

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2008, 07:37:51 pm »
But would that be true acceleration or just a shift of perspective?
One could not tell as time travel is an enigma; possible, yet out of our grasps.
Side Note: This is the same controversy that surrounds H.G. Wells The Time Machine, isn't it?

I always thought that as one approached the speed of light, time itself remains constant but that our perception of time (or more exactly, time's effect on us) is reduced. Anywho...
Ehh... technically you're still right about the constant part as it's based on Relativity, but light still experiences time. Case in point: Neutrinos should "die" before even reaching our planet, yet somehow they make it into our atmosphere; this is due to Relativity's effects.

To be more specific shouldn't the 2300AD gate be green only AFTER you unlock Newgame+. In the end the gate is still blue but they make not that its not the destroyed 2300AD anymore.
I'm not *entirely* sure on this one, but I think the 'Blue' Gate is a different gate than the 'Green' Gate(Thought brought up an interesting idea. I modify it yet further by proposing that it "modifies" yet higher dimensions--those of reality--allowing time error to be reversed.)--even if they lead to the same place. My reasoning behind this is that there are *two* 'mouths'.(Bucket @ EOT/ Telepod @ 1000 A.D.) I could be wrong, but that's just my interpretation...

Kebrel

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2008, 07:49:39 pm »
Well I was just say that the 2300AD(destroyed) isn't thrown away in the first playthough. there for fits in to the blue category, but after Newgame+ it fits in to thought's post of "should be green". But isn't there a fourth gate the Pillars of light at the end of time. The first guess is thats because there originating from the end of time.

BROJ

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2008, 08:10:29 pm »
I made a visual representation of what I'm talking about:


But isn't there a fourth gate the Pillars of light at the end of time. The first guess is thats because there originating from the end of time.
Yeah, but it isn't a pillar it's an original gate; the bucket. It could possible that it *is* in fact the *same* gate, but the two still function slightly differently.

Edit: Quick question(slightly Off-Topic); at Chronopolis has time(4-D and possibly 5-D/Time-Error) been decelerated(Δ→0) as the area seems immaculate time-wise? If this is so, could it be because of not only time-isolation, but 'anti-annihilation *radiation*' causing time to dilate(as we from the outside would observe it; kind of like a temporal black hole) at 'extreme' proportions?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 08:30:12 pm by BROJ »

Kebrel

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2008, 08:39:04 pm »
Hmm okay I always thought that newgame+ was after the events of the game, not an whole other line. similar to the Chrono Cross dimensions,because then its just dimensional/time travel.




V_Translanka

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2008, 04:29:52 am »
Quote from: Though
V, also doesn't the Tele-porter work across the dimensions? That is, Person X is hanging out at Location Y in Another World. In home world, Serge can use the Tele-porter to switch out the team member Q for said member X. X then appears in Home World without the use of the amulet and without Serge opening/activating the hole in reality.

Well, that's exactly why I bring up the point of game mechanics...Is it just made so that they don't have to have an animation of Serge himself going back & forth to each character just to change the party or w/e...We aren't really given any information on the Tele-Porter at all...just that Kid has it for some reason...I'm guessing either something Lucca made (why?) or perhaps it's just another piece of Project Kid.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2008, 12:31:04 pm »
Whoa whoa whoa!

This is ANALYSIS!  "Game mechanics" is never a valid excuse!  Translanka, YOU'RE the one who taught me that when I first joined up!

THE UNIVERSE IS UNRAVELING!
MY WORLD VIEW IS DESTROYED!
I CAN HEAR THE HOOVES OF THE FOUR HORSEMEN!

Maybe we should start a thread discussing the teleporter...and it's potential origin.

V_Translanka

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2008, 01:53:47 pm »
Yeah, I also say that you need some in-game evidence to back up theories & what-not...When there's no information on something, game mechanics is a very probable excuse.

Thought

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2008, 01:32:02 pm »
Curiosity, but when one takes the Bucket at the End of Time aren't there red sparkles of something that accompany the teleportation? Might this be another instance of the Red Gate effect (as where it drops you out does not correlate to any other gate location)?

Quick question(slightly Off-Topic); at Chronopolis has time been decelerated as the area seems immaculate time-wise?

Actually, time (4-D) has not been "decelerated" as creatures from Chronopolis are able to still interact with Serge & Squad. We might suppose that Serge and the others are immune from the curious time effects of Chronopolis, having entered it, but those who were already there should have been "time decelerated" as well, if the rest of the place was. However, Time Error (5-D) might have been, as the "gate" effect of entering the area does not seem to match the time spent. That is, by Time Error entering Chronopolis should take one 13020 years into the future of when this effect was created (2400, on the exit end). However, it looks mostly like a comparatively short period of time has passed (maybe just a few hundred years?)

To be more specific shouldn't the 2300AD gate be green only AFTER you unlock Newgame+. In the end the gate is still blue but they make not that its not the destroyed 2300AD anymore.

Actually, that is a very good point. The Blue Gate at the end of the Game (through which everyone goes to their respective timelines) is notably blue. Perhaps this is just a link to the End of Time, at this point, from which the various characters then go to their various timelines. However, if not, then it is dumping Robo, Doan, Ayla, Kino, and Magus in 600 AD again.

But this leads to a more interesting thought: the Doan Paradox. Assuming that this singular gate is supposed to exit into the various respective timelines like it is implied it does, then the blueness of the gate indicates that Doan and Robo are traveling to the ideal future (thus, sucks to be Doan because his entire life remains in the ruined future). If they were traveling to the ruined future, then this should be green under the current discussion's theory (as the ruined future should have been discarded as soon as Lavos was defeated).

However, given the Entity's power over both time and dimensions (as displayed from it pulling Dinopolis into the Keystone dimension/timeline), might it be that the Entity was actually preventing the ruined future from being discarded? Indeed, the Entity already seems to be considerate of Chrono and Co as the gates are still active even after Lavos has been defeated (the only reason for the Entity to keep them open at that point if for Magus, Frog, Robo, and Ayla to return to their own time periods, it seems). By allowing the various characters to get to their respective time periods first, might they then be effected by the rewrite of time that would happen once the entity stopped holding those changes back?

This would result in a much less contaminated timeline (like Frog potentially having armor made from metals that shouldn't exist in 600 AD). Of course, by TTI the various individuals would step from the gate in their pre-change form, but if they are in that timeline when the changes happen, wouldn't they still be affected? That is, they'd step from the gate pre-change but immediately be altered to the new timeline.

If so, then that would seemingly resolve a nasty component of the Doan Paradox and explain why that gate is not Green (as this theory would indicate it should be, if it connects to the ruined future).

Then, in New Game + we might consider that the 2300 AD gate is blue specifically because the Green Gate exists; Lavos is connected from the DBT to the real world, and thus his influence might be renewed (and so even though the ruined future should be discarded, as long as the Green Gate exists that ruined future still exists as well).

Anywho, just a lot of somewhat scattered thoughts.

Thought

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2008, 11:06:29 am »
Note: I just confirmed, the dimensional distortion on Opassa Beach is, in fact, Green.

So to summarize the discussion so far:

Blue Gate: Allow travel through time but not space.

Red Gate: Allow travel through time and space.

Green Gate: Might allow travel through "Time Error" (specifically to places that aught not exist).

V_Translanka

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2008, 04:04:20 pm »
Hmmm...Y'know, when you think about it, the Green Lavos Gate isn't like the other Gates in another manner...on-screen it doesn't appear as a Gate, ready to be opened, like the others...but, in fact, is only a tiny sparkle...

Anacalius

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2008, 06:57:44 pm »
This is off topic sorta, but whatever, I want answers!

Upon traveling to 1999A.D. and defeating Lavos, Crono and the gang save the world, and everyone returns to their home time. <~~~~~~This makes no sense. If Crono and the others returned to their home time, which is PRIOR to the time they just defeated Lavos, then Lavos still exists in that time, and it will still cause the apocalypse in 1999 A.D.

It makes no sense to travel to the FUTURE to cause something from happening, because Crono and the gang just diffuse that action by going back to 1000 A.D.

Get what I mean? It just doesn't make sense. The only way to save it would be to defeat lavos in 1000 A.D. or earlier.

V_Translanka

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Re: Gate Color Theory.
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2008, 08:32:23 pm »
I think that the Compendium's basic stance plot-wise in that you face Lavos via the first Black Omen...though I think that you've got to plow the Epoch into his hide, myself...But, anyways, you defeat Lavos in his PD, so then everything it did is undone...or, wait, no...well, whatever, we don't know that he destroys EVERYTHING when you're able to fight Lavos in 1999AD...that was just the start.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 08:45:30 pm by V_Translanka »