Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development  (Read 62047 times)

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #420 on: July 31, 2005, 01:40:03 am »
Ok, here's Part Two.  It has everything from the breaking point to Sorin's death, and features a list of what we still need to finish.  So, without further adieu...is that how you spell it?

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The Breaking Point

The Frozen Flame demonstrates its supreme asstardery by flinging the heroes off to different time periods.  There are three groups here.  One is composed of Magus, Schala, and Glenn, and they’ve been sent off to a high technological future on the brink of destruction, and are fated to make a grave choice.  Another contains Lucca, Marle, and Robo, who get to witness the founding of Guardia firsthand, only to find out that the history textbooks lied to them (OMFGLOL!)  Poor Crono is all by his lonesome, and he witnesses the most terrifying thing of all.  And when I say it’s the most terrifying thing of all, I mean that Goatse is positively wonderful compared to that shit.

Crono Nightmare #1

Crono goes first in the breaking point sequence.  He’s ended up in a nightmarish temporal flux that’s even harder to navigate than the editing program, if that’s possible.  He finds himself in the midst of a Porre assault on Truce, much more vicious than the last one.  He sees an alternate version of himself being captured, and rushes after him, fighting VERY DIFFICULT battles.  At the end of the sequence, he finds a version of William Ishito as the Headsman.  Ishito says a bunch of stuff about how he brought this on his country, and how it’s his fault that all those people are going to die.  He comments that Crono is the reason he’s in the state he is, and then gives him the guillotine.  Temporal flux happens, and the scenario shifts to Marle, Lucca, and Robo.

The Founding of Guardia

The aforementioned three land on a frozen tundra, seemingly in the middle of nowhere.  Immediately, Marle begins expressing turmoil over Crono's fate; Lucca is disturbed as well, and reveals that she still sort of likes the guy.  Girl talk ensues, and the party starts wandering, hoping to find some hint of civilization. Eventually they spot a large mass, which turns out to be a primitive army bearing the brunt of the cold. Before they approach, they notice another army riding up the valley behind them; it is flying the Guardian flag, so they venture over there. The army is dumbfounded and nearly kills the travelers due to the weird robot with them (Robo), but Marle's pendant is the same as the leader - Cedric the Executor, later to become King Guardia I. Marle attempts to catch up, but the approaching army - the primitive tribe of Porre - is ready to fight, with spears armed. A massive battle takes place; as it did historically, it turns in Porre's favor, so Cedric the Executor books it out of there with Marle. Lucca and Robo can't rejoin the main forces; to save the wounded Lucca, Robo lets himself go. He is utterly vicious, protecting Lucca at any cost; he kills a lot of Porre warriors.

Back in an encampment and rudimentary shed, Marle converses with Cedric Guardia about the future. He notes that the divine forces were not on his side at the battle today, but that he shall "bring" them to the next encounter. Marle and the player learn that the angel in Manoria Cathedral is Cedric's mother, claimed to be of divine descent. At night, Robo drags Lucca in, and promptly collapses. Lucca is well-awake, and in a fit of rage; she blames herself for not being strong enough to fight on her own, and is starting to split down the middle between rational thought and her emotions; she feels helpless, and reflects that science did not fail her, but rather her implementation of it.  Robo and Lucca have a discussion about the events that just passed; they foist moral responsibility for human actions on humans, even when taking Lavos into account.  They’ve seen the face of the devil…or the face of God, depending on how you look at it.  Eventually, they fall asleep.  In the morning, Lucca and Robo rejoin the main Guardian force and Marle as they ride out to the final battle with Porre.  This time, however, Cedric is pulling no punches; Guardia is carrying an Ark of the Covenant type box with them.  A custom sprite that resembles illustrations of the actual Ark of the Covenant will be created for this purpose.  They've goaded the Porre army into approaching their position in huge numbers; a secret attack from the side routs the army quickly. They stumble onto an encampment; Cedric orders the killing of everyone, including the women and children. Marle cannot stand this slaughter; Robo points out that changing things now might have an adverse effect in time, and Lucca notes that since Lavos did have the power to alter time, this could all be a fake timeline fabricated by the Frozen Flame.  Cedric reiterates to them that this is war, and that “the Porre savages” need to be sent a message.  Robo disagrees with Cedric’s implementation of military tactics, but before they have time to argue about it, Porre attacks again with a surprise retaliation.  Guardia currently occupies an inferior position, because of Cedric’s bloodlust.  This time, the Porrean leader is there personally; his name is Antaeus. He wields an artifact called the RivenCrimse; Lucca and Marle both recall that this battle, recorded in ancient lore, is the founding of Guardia, but this situation is much different than had read about.  Porre appears to be far stronger than they were previously, and each side has some magic-users at its disposal.  Lucca reasons that in the original timeline, Guardia was intended to be a prime source of Lavos’ DNA acquisitions, but Crono, Marle, and Lucca resisted his whims and through their efforts transformed Guardia into a peaceful country rather than a conquering empire as Lavos wished.  Porre is the next best thing, but it’s still a mystery how they suddenly managed to acquire a ton of magic users in the present.  The powers Guardia uses are mostly spirit-based, whereas Porre uses both elemental and Lavos energy.  This will end up playing into both the El Nido scenario and Sorin’s backstory, but for now Antaeus taunts Cedric the Executor, remarking that with the RivenCrimse, he just finished slaying a pack of Dorino filth escorting a Guardian chieftain. This sends Cedric into an all-out fury, but rather than fight, he decides to use his secret weapon; the Frozen Flame!  Marle cries out, and a light floods the battlefield. Robo is alarmed, however; while rumors have always been passed down that Guardia used an artifact to establish its kingdom, some of the energy emanating from the Flame registers in his Chronometer as originating from far in the the future of the Flame itself. Robo then remarks that Antaeus isn't being owned like he should be by the Flame. The Porre leader then appears in front of the party.  Instead of dying, though, he is possessed by the Flame.  Time itself freezes and the Flame then begins to speak through him, saying that this timeline is indeed real, how much he loves and hates them in his own sadistic way, and using the following pre-battle trash talk:

"A thousand fires have sparked within my mind! I see everything! I know all! And I know this: you must perish!"

…Jesus Christ, that line is fucking awesome.  After that, the Flame pumps several fucktons of energy into Antaeus, and the crew has to fight a boss battle with him.  Before he dies, Antaeus makes a comment about the “legend of El Nido” and how it holds the key to the ultimate magic.  This naturally is used to further the plot, as Lucca, Marle, and Robo wonder what the hell a backwater Porre colony has to do with anything.  When the time warp subsides, Cedric is confident that his use of the Frozen Flame has defeated Porre.  He then declares to his armies (in a very Palpatine-like fashion) that he will found Guardia and that they will have peace.  The team gets the RivenCrimse, Antaeus’ scythe, out of the fight; it’s a good weapon for Magus once they reunite.  They then duck into the forest, away from the Guardian armies.  Lucca reasons that if this timeline is a current one, Belthasar will have noticed the temporal disturbance caused by the Flame and detected them there, and will activate a Gate in a temporal coordinate only slightly ahead of the battle.  A few seconds later, a Gate appears, and they dive into it and return to Chronopolis.  Once there, they talk with Belthasar about what happened during the original timeline; they theorize that the Flame’s history with Guardia might hold some clue about how to defeat it.  They also ask Belthasar to do some research into the legend of El Nido that Antaeus mentioned.  However, that will have to wait a bit longer…

Crono Nightmare #2

The player doesn’t actually play during this one.  Instead, he/she bears witness to Crono getting assaulted by various team members and NPCs saying angsty goth shit about how Crono is a dick.  Then it cuts to a much less goth (or more? you decide) sequence with Glenn, Janus, and Schala.

The Vanguard Apocalypse

Magus, Glenn, and Schala awaken to find themselves trapped in a maximum-security prison.  A guard promptly comes in and starts questioning Magus, kicking the living shit out of him.  He’s angered, but powerless to do anything; apparently, the guards have injected him with a powerful sedative that shuts down the neural pathways to the parts of the brain that allow him to use magic.  Glenn and Schala are also tortured for a while.  After the guards leave them alone, Glenn and Janus reflect on what an odd and generally sad pair of individuals they are.  They joke away their entire history, mentioning Cyrus, Zeal, and all the other things they’ve lost.  Glenn reflects that hate is built not on circumstance but on selfishness; when they went to see Cyrus and free his spirit with the Masamune, Cyrus was not infuriated with vengeance against Janus, but rather empowered with love for his friends.  Glenn says that perhaps Cyrus knew what the former Magus had lost. Glenn was selfish in his hate, which might have gotten in the way of defeating the greater enemy, Lavos.  Janus says the same thing; he didn’t care what he destroyed just so long as he got back at the demon.  They even reflect on Lavos’ selfishness; he was the ultimate manipulator, and possibly still is, but Janus is no longer able to treat Glenn or any of the others with contempt.  This is partially because he recognizes their valor in combat and extreme courage; they were all willing to give their lives for an ideal they believed in.  While the Magus generally scoffs at the notion of “high-minded ideals” as Anakin Solo put it, Janus reflects that his entire life thus far has been lived in service of a secret ideal; that of the family and love.  Though he respects Glenn, he makes it clear that he did not abandon the ways of war for him or any of the other team members, but for Schala alone.  Glenn, on the other hand, embraced the ways of death in memory of Cyrus.  Truly, the two are not all that different; they openly wonder whether, if their places had been switched, events would have played out the same as they did before.  It isn’t a question of individuality, they decide, but of the nature of sentient beings to be attached to people or things.  Schala reflects on her attachment to life itself; she feels that she was never meant to live again, that Lavos should have taken her in the Ocean Palace.  Janus cannot take this, and summons up enough strength to smash his hand into the camera’s glass lens.  Cutting himself in several places with its shards, he bleeds the sedative out of his body, and slowly feels the power of magic returning to him.  When a group of guards comes to investigate, Magus uses Black Hole on them.  Schala winces at the loss of life, but Glenn reminds her that sometimes there isn’t any choice.  They agree that they have to get back to Belthasar in Chronopolis, but first they have to figure out where they are.  Upon making it to a computer terminal and letting Janus access it, they learn that they’re in 2102 A.D.  A strained geopolitical situation is the norm in this era; several world powers have built up nuclear arsenals, and another Cold War is currently in progress.  There are no Mystics in this time; human imperialism killed them all off many centuries ago; the implication is that one of the holy wars in the Middle Ages did it.  Janus notes that they are only 200 years before Belthasar’s time, and that he said the world’s unified government was what allowed him to build Chronopolis, but the governments of this time are nowhere close to unified.  After this, a mysterious yet familiar enemy steps in.  He congratulates them on escaping, even though he expected them to be able to do it.  He then steps out of the shadows and reveals himself as Serran.  He came here using his miniature and much more archaic-looking version of the Epoch.  He relates that while the Masamune was in his hands, he was approached by a dark warrior, whom the player knows could only have been Sorin.  Sorin communicated the will of the Frozen Flame – the will of Lavos, who Serran sees as an Almighty God – through the Dreamstone of the Masamune.  Glenn remarks that this must be the origin of the strange visions he’s been having periodically of a city vanishing in time; Sorin imparted his dreams to the Masamune when he held it, and the echo of the Frozen Flame’s will lingers on it.  Serran then reveals two crucial secrets.  Number one is his mission; he’s going to start a global nuclear apocalypse.  The survivors will be forced to band together, just as “the Master” wishes, and that said Master promised him that by doing this, Serran will help him get revenge on the humans who destroyed his life.  Number two is the origin of this group; it’s the Vanguard.  Now a far cry from an order of noble knights, it is a secret paramilitary organization devoted to creating a new world order; the Central Regime.  According to their beliefs, it’s for the good of humankind in general.  Serran knows this, but doesn’t believe that that will be the end result.  However, the Crew knows better.  Janus remarks that such a maneuver would provide Belthasar with the necessary resource base to create Chronopolis, so technically they’re right.  However, it’s disturbingly similar to how he justified the first few times he killed someone; the thought that humanity would be better off in the end for him having done so, because of the eventually removed influence of Lavos.  Serran also speaks about the legend of El Nido, which he’s heard about both from Porre in 602 A.D. and from his Master.  In the end, both the path through and the item obtained from Serran at the end of the scenario is a consequence of what the player picked way back in Scenario 8.  One of the scenarios even has the party aiding Serran, because it allows Chronopolis to be constructed.

Option 1: All Your Base Are Blown The Fuck Up

This option will result in the party attempting to self-destruct the base they’re in so as to stop the nuclear war.  It’s the surest option they’ve got, but the base is under a populated zone and thousands of people will die in the process, and the chances of them making it out are slim to none, and slim just passed out from a heroin overdose.  If the player elects this option, they will overload the reactor core and then have 10 minutes to escape the base.  If they don’t get out before then, the last saved game reloads.  At the end of the path, they’ve got to fight Serran one last time, but he’s a pushover.  They use the parts of the Epoch Serran stole to take a hike back to Chronopolis.  A cutscene of a city blowing up then occurs, and the scenario moves on to Crono Nightmare #3.  Picking the ‘fight the Mystics’ option in Scenario 8 will make the scenario take this path, and for your trouble you’ll be granted Lucca’s second most powerful weapon early (the one that can eventually be modified in Calasperan to be the ultimate).

Option 2: Aid the Vanguard

This option has the party actually aiding Serran and the Vanguard in their atrocity, because they don't see a way out of it.  Thus history is relatively unchanged.  The party fights Serran out of anger at his obvious immorality and what they’ve just done.  Choosing to fight Porre in Scenario 8 will result in this situation; Serran drops Marle’s second most powerful crossbow early.

Option 3: I Was Born Lazy

This option has the party giving up on the conundrum, and a nuclear war unfolds.  Thus history is relatively unchanged.  Just as in the previous option, the party is angry at Serran and fights him for vengeance.  Choosing to declare neutrality in Scenario 8 will result in this situation; Serran drops a Safe Helm.

Option 4: Stop the Missile

This scenario, as in its counterpart, is the most difficult, but it is also the most rewarding.  However, it’s no less tragic.  This time, the team waits until the missile launches, and then steals Serran’s stripped-down Epoch to go after it.  Once Serran figures out what happens, he’s hot on their tail with a fleet of Vanguard jets backing him up.  There’s no question that anyone in the vicinity when the missile explodes is going to die.  It would be easy enough to pick the missile off with the Epoch’s laser cannons, but it was designed primarily to be a time travel machine and not a superiority fighter.  Its targeting systems aren’t up to snuff with what’s necessary to hit the missile, so Glenn volunteers to take a swan dive past it with the Masamune.  This will almost certainly kill all of them, but it’s a chance he’s willing to take.  However, Janus isn’t; he knocks Glenn out and casts Dark Matter on the warhead, which explodes it.  Unfortunately, it’s very close to a populated area by that time, and detonating it kills plenty of people anyway and starts the war all the same.  But they don’t have time for mourning as Schala uses all the Epoch’s power to open a Gate and escape, thus presumably killing the Vanguard.  Serran, however, follows them into the Gate, intent on doing one last battle with Glenn.  He’s much harder this time than in the others, but upon defeating him, a secret compartment within his version of the Epoch opens; it contains a massive hunk of Rainbow Shell!  It’s big enough to allow you to make all the characters’ penultimate weapons at this time.  The party arrives back at Chronopolis, getting out of the crappily held together ship before it goes BOOMWIG, with Lucca, Marle, and Robo already there, and thankfully nothing’s changed; Melchior promises to get right to work on weaponry of the highest quality for the team.  Glenn, Janus and Schala wonder about certain holes that weren’t filled in 2102; why did the Vanguard let Serran take command?  And how did they know about the Central Regime and Chronopolis?  Moreover, what could have possessed Serran to go along with the Vanguard’s plans if he knew about the possibility of Chronopolis?  Belthasar does some research into that.  Crono is now the only one missing.  All thoughts turn to him, but he’s pretty preoccupied…

Crono Nightmare #3 - Defilement

This is it, folks, the big daddy of all nightmares and the end of the breaking point sequence, as well as the only one of Crono’s nightmares that has a save point in it.  ZeaLitY wanted to use the ruined world again, so here's what we came up with.  Crono lands in a strange amalgam of a world; it contains varying types of terrain.  Ghosts roam everywhere, portals open and close seemingly at random, and strange alien creatures populate the world, including many Lavos Spawns.  In essence, it’s a combination of Metroid Prime’s Phazon crater and Chrono Cross’ Isle of the Damned, with a very small bit of Gothic architecture.  This world quite literally is a living hell, and it’s Crono’s task to find a way out of it and back to Chronopolis.  There are many signs all over the place, and creatures akin to even more perverted versions of the bioengineered monsters Dyasavah was researching in Calasperan.  The signs all lead to a large temple, where acolytes are going to present their work to a Dark Lord.  The temple is home to highly advanced technology; it’s protected by extremely powerful sentinels and has several spires sticking out of it that appear to be gathering energy from the air.  There are several of what appears to be wrecked UFOs and various other starships immediately outside the temple.  Crono descends into the perverted temple, which is replete with magickal runes in alien languages – among them are spells that open portals into various limbo dimensions.  Crono tries to run for one of these, but some acolytes show up and restrain him.  They bring him down a very long series of steps and force him to kneel before their lord…

Guess who’s back?  Yup.

Crono expresses incredulity at seeing Lavos again, and he certainly never expected to see him in the exalted state that he’s in.  This form of Lavos is that of the demon-figure on top of the altar Magus was using to summon Lavos in CT.  Crono asks Lavos whether this place is Hell; Lavos says that it is, but not in the way Crono envisions it.  However, this doesn’t stop Crono’s courage.  He steals one of the acolytes’ weapons, knocks them all out, and proceeds to do protracted battle against Lavos.  If he hasn’t gotten it already, he gains the Luminaire technique when the battle starts.  Once sufficient damage has been done to the monster, he remarks that Crono thinks in incredibly physical terms and that Lavos is far more than just a body.  He says that this is true of all the life he watched over, but none of them ever realized it; if anyone, he expected the ones responsible for destroying him to figure it out.  But as it stands, Lavos has an uncountable number of acolytes and creatures willing to be remade in his image for his glory, and an uncountable number that already have been.  Even Crono is now a part of Lavos, the Dark Lord says, but Crono has other plans.  He smashes the door with Luminaire and frantically pushes buttons on the machinery until he realizes that it's controlled by the user's magic; this realization enables him to adjust a portal to remove him from this false timeline and take him back to Chronopolis.  Once back there, a frenzied Crono relates his experiences and then collapses into Marle’s arms.  The entire team is thrown into a panic as to what it portends.  Crono is given time to recover, and the team vows to defeat Lavos, in whatever form he takes.  Cutscenes ensue before the next scenario takes place.

Scenario 10 – Evil Seed

Now that Crono’s back in the real world and everyone else is done with their random jaunts through time, Melchior issues whatever advanced weaponry the team got from the breaking point scenarios.  If option 4 was picked at the end of the Vanguard Apocalypse, Melchior and Magus will, in a cutscene, develop the Arco Iris, a Rainbow Sword made from much purer Rainbow Shell.  If you didn’t pick option 4, don’t worry; you can still fix it.  There’s plenty of Rainbow Shell to go around in El Nido as a quest reward, and the party will be going there shortly.  First, though, the team acts on Marle’s urge to explore Guardia’s history with the Frozen Flame to look for its weakness; if the Frozen Flame’s master plan is what Crono saw in the Tesseract, it bodes ill for everyone.  In order to do this, they attempt to track down the master of random treasure; Toma Levine.  Toma’s fallen on hard times in 602 A.D., saying that almost everything worth taking has been found, except perhaps the Valle Crimse.  Legend has it that Guardia’s greatest treasure was once kept there; the party’s like “OMG FROZEN FLAME” and rushes to the King for permission to enter it, which he gladly grants.  ZeaLitY did most of the work on this scenario; he suggested a tomb something like the Holy Grail’s resting place in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, complete with a really old knight.  But this time, there actually is a fight; Crono has to be tested to see if Guardia’s still got the spirit of heroes in it. At the Bottom of the Night plays during the fight, much like in Chrono Cross when Serge fights Miguel in the Dead Sea.  If Crono has the Arco Iris, this is an easy fight.  Upon being defeated, the knight lets loose some knowledge about the legend of El Nido spoken of by both Antaeus and Serran.  He gives the party a priceless yet dilapidated pendant before passing away forever, as well as a map to the place.  They take it back to Melchior to have it restored; it’s Schala’s penultimate weapon.  Thus ends this scenario.

Scenario 11 – The Unknown Legend

There was previously a bunch of crap here.  We got rid of it.  This is the El Nido section, where the party fights the Frozen Flame in a hidden fortress somewhere and it runs away like a little pussy.  This was the source of the future Frozen Flame that pumped a bunch of energy into Antaeus to make life difficult for the party.  When the Frozen Flame is defeated, the fortress begins to disappear into the temporal void; the Flame lets slip that its power was holding the castle in existence.  It also coughs up some Rainbow Shell before leaving.  The party's like "wtf mate" and goes back to check on the Dragon Tooth in Chronopolis.

Scenario 12 – Origin of Knowledge

When the party gets back to Chronopolis, they immediately tell Belthasar what the Flame told them, and he tries to figure out how to extract all of the Dragon Tooth's knowledge. Lavos, and by extension the Frozen Flame, has a power thought to be exclusive to Chrono Triggers; the ability to summon things out of the Tesseract.  However, a Chrono Trigger is better at it than Lavos, because it was specifically designed to permanently restore a given object or organism, “hatching” it with the energy of the Tesseract; Lavos requires continued power expenditures to maintain the presence of whatever he summons.  After it's cracked/communicated with (more on this later) the Dragon Tooth reveals that the entire city of Calasperan and everything in it is one of these time-dreams; in the original timeline, the destruction of the breakaway took out Calasperan as well, and King Zeal perished.  However, the team’s interference in the Ocean Palace allowed the Frozen Flame its freedom from the Mammon Machine.  As it scanned the spacetime continuum around it for purpose, it saw in the recently departed King Zeal a mechanism to carry out Lavos' will; an Arbiter.  It resurrected him as such in order to manipulate him.  King Zeal, having witnessed everyone he knew and loved die, lost his mind.  He became deranged enough to wish the entire city back into existence and pretend nothing was happening, allowing his mind to be taken over by the Frozen Flame. Lavos did consider simply calling up an army of vanquished alien warlords and forcibly taking over Earth with them, but not only would that be impractical, it would not yield the kind of results he wanted; complete control over everything on the planet.  Finally, Lavos’ origin and his master plan are revealed:

The Lavos that Crono encountered in his Tesseract nightmare was only an extension of the real Lavos' will; Lavos has placed Crono into his personal dream, which just happens to be a timeline that never came to pass. Lavos is trying to use the Frozen Flame, which is still trapped in the mortal world, to alter time in such a way as to make this dream a reality; he's using it as his One Ring, except infinitely more 1337. In his dream, the Entity itself does not exist; Lavos, using his power and knowledge, has destroyed it and installed himself as the planet's new Gaia, remaking it in His image, which is why it's so twisted. But that's not even the limit of it. I've often said that due to the extreme resilience and knowledge that Lavos -- one single being -- possesses, a ship constructed by an entire crew of Lavoids would be a feat even the Galactic Empire would crap their pants at. This Lavos-controlled version of Earth IS the warship. And there's more of them out there. Earth was a rare find on Lavos' part, in essence a jewel of the cosmos; the number of planets that have the necessary conditions to evolve critically-thinking, technologically capable life is extremely small, at least on a cosmic scale.  It's special, and thus he intends to use this planet as his base to conquer the rest of them.  And when I say the rest of them, I absolutely mean it. He has designs on the entire universe, and the capacity to transfer his soul or extensions of it into other bodies; hence the Frozen Flame. He can even possess entire planets, rendering him theoretically immortal so long as the planet's star doesn't explode. He can overshadow others' life forces, willing or not. He had planned to possess Earth and use it as his body, but just as Earth itself was a unique occurrence, so was its spirit, the Entity; the only one strong enough to resist him. For sixty-five million years, he waged war on the Earth itself, drawing the DNA and residual spirit energy of the lifeforms on its surface and evolving progressively stronger lifeforms to get more. This was the only flaw in his plan; eventually, beings strong enough to fight and defeat him occurred, partially due to the Entity's own evolutionary imprint, but the vast amount of energy he'd collected enabled him to operate even from the Tesseract, infusing the Frozen Flame with his power. What he's trying to do with all his power is manifest his dream in the very beginnings of the planet, when the Entity was a nascent consciousness. In essence, he's trying to kill the Entity in the distant past, and this course of action is causing a massive tear in time. What this means is that in certain locations, reality and the Tesseract are spilling into each other; such was the case in the Epoch's tomb among other places. But he isn't through yet; with his planet-ship and his timerip, along with the other worlds conquered by his disciples and Lavos Spawns, he's going to systematically take over the entire universe, absorbing the power of each new planet he conquers for himself. That may and probably will take him trillions of years, but he's literally got all the time in the universe to make it happen. When he accomplishes this, he's going to initiate what astronomers and cosmologists term the Big Crunch, and all the planets and stars and galaxies, all of what will at that point be extensions of his will are going to be drawn together, creating a universal point of supergravity and rendering all matter and all possible timelines in the universe a part of Lavos. At that point, you can guess what the universe will be like; Lavos will remake it in His image.  However, in order to accomplish this, he needs to fully control the Earth first, and to do this he needs to actually kill the Entity.  To do this, he intends to have King Zeal use a weapon known as the Chrono Break on Gaia in the distant past, when it won’t have the strength to resist.  The Chrono Break is a weapon designed to instantly banish any being from linear time to the DBT by targeting their spirit energy at a specific instance in time, usually that of the being's birth.  It was being developed at Calasperan, but it was lost in time somehow.  This is the team’s cue to find the Chrono Break before Lavos’ minions do; if they fail, all will be lost.  And when I say all, I mean ALL, as you can read from the story above.  The only question is "how distant in the past does he intend to use it?"  Or, more practically "when was the Entity born, and where did it come from?"  

After learning all of this, the party is shocked and awed, and rightfully so.  They take a bit of time to think while Belthasar and Melchior study the data on the Frozen Flame and the Dragon Tooth some more.  During this time, cutscenes ensue where the characters philosophize and stuff; four separate yet interlinked conversations take place, against a background music of silence.  Crono and Marle talk about their role in the original quest to defeat Lavos; Marle relates that she was actually the one that started the entire thing off, both in 1000 A.D. with the telepod and in the ruined 2300 with her idealism in believing they could destroy Lavos.  After the Ocean Palace incident, she thought that she should have been the one to die instead of Crono, because she did technically start the whole chain of events, and because she loved him enough.  They discuss how odd it is to sacrifice yourself for someone you love, and how many supposed rules of evolution and psychology that act goes against; Lavos, after all, represents a cynical Darwinistic outlook on life.  Being emotionally attached to someone entails not wanting to give them up, but in the act of dying we surrender all of our earthly possessions, including loved ones.  Crono reasons that he did it not simply because he loved her, but because he was willing to believe that even if death parted them, they wouldn’t be apart forever.  Marle compares herself to Glenn and the Vanguard in terms of being a pawn; something she did unwittingly had vast repercussions, but unlike Glenn, she’s got no one to blame but herself.  In a way, she is also responsible for everyone that died in 2102.  And out of all the characters, Lavos probably hates them the most.  But it isn’t Lavos’ respect they’re trying to earn, now is it?  Robo and Atropos come next, comparing humans’ souls to data and citing the Tesseract and conservation of energy while doing so.  Lucca and Glenn are up third; they discuss love, hate, and how they feel about various people, most prominently including Crono and Janus.  There’s a small hint of romance dropped between the two, when Lucca discusses the overall utility of technology.  Schala and her brother go last, talking about the nature of God and the universe and citing Crono’s experience in the dream timeline, as well as the information garnered from the Frozen Flame on Lavos’ master plan.  Finally, once all these conversations are done, the team meets up again to discuss the plan for retrieving the Chrono Break.  Crono relates that he found Sorin in King Zeal’s lab.  That’s presumably where the Chrono Break was being developed; they all decide that he’s the key to finding it.  And he is, just not in the way they’d expect.  However, in order to find Sorin, they have to find the Black Wind.  This is precisely what they set out to do, and this time they intend to shut the black ops group down for good.

Scenario 13 – Hearts of Men and Angels

Unfortunately, they can’t just waltz into Black Wind headquarters…or can they?  The Vanguard has finally done something good for the party; they’ve negotiated a temporary cease-fire with the Porre government, citing the El Nido breakaway as well as the increasing reluctance of both sides to war.  The degree of peace that's able to be negotiated will be determined again by the choice you made as Glenn earlier, and it'll also affect a boss battle this time, too.  The party has been invited to a state dinner at Porre, as well as to tour their military facilities.  Is it a trap?  Of course it is.  But it’s also an opportunity to gain valuable intelligence and possibly even infiltrate the Black Wind.  However, once they get into the facility, Porre double-crosses them by slamming down blast doors and enclosing them; the party reasons they’d have to have something bad up their sleeve to do that.  That they do; an insane Sorin comes out babbling stuff about Lavos and his own broken heart and tears, and swinging with all his might.  This is the final battle with Sorin, and he’s a tough customer; he’s one of the very last bosses in the game, and has one of the highest HP totals out of anyone, but the strength of his attacks varies with your choice in Scenario 8; if you chose peace, his attacks will actually be weaker, though he'll drop the same thing every time.  He’s so far gone into madness that Lavos’ energy has actually mutated part of his body and given him ludicrous strength.  As if that wasn’t enough, Porre is pumping the air out of the room through vents, so there’s a time limit on the fight.  (Don’t worry, there’s a Save Point almost immediately before it.)  Crono and his friends defeat the mad Sorin in the nick of time.  The air, unfortunately, is still being pumped out of the room, but William Ishito orders the controller to let them out.  The controller objects, but William tells him that incapacitating Sorin was the chief objective here, and makes some very threatening remarks towards the other officer to be carried out unless he lets them out.  The guy complies, and Ishito is able to successfully sedate Sorin and revive the Chrono Crew.  He then explains everything about Black Wind and Sorin; first of all, he restates that he doesn’t agree with Porre’s current, warlike regime.  William then tells the party that the reason he had Sorin admitted to the program was because he and Sorin had been best friends for a very long time.  It was only recently that bad things had begun happening.  Sorin had grown increasingly disturbed; he felt as if his own heart was possessed by that of a demon.  One day, he just snapped; he murdered his wife, his two children, and many others before Porre army personnel managed to capture his raving, shrieking self.  He was slated to be executed for his crimes, but saved by his entry into the Black Wind program as a test subject.  This was a result of William Ishito pulling some strings; their benefactor had just granted them the technology for bionic implants.  Ishito felt that Sorin’s mind could only be refocused in this way, so he had the operation done; however, he was wary of any secret orders the benefactor might have hidden in the implants’ programming.  They still don’t have any data on this, but the team is able to confirm that Sorin does indeed have orders they don’t know about.  The implants endowed Sorin with tremendous reasoning, skill, and power, but all of his emotions had been shut off, and he’d always sensed that a part of his nature was missing.  He took orders only from William Ishito; the Porre government was skeptical at first, but Sorin’s extreme combat performance was enough to let his existence slide and to broker additional deals with their benefactor, known to the party as King Zeal.  However, apparently being exposed to the Elements at El Nido didn’t sit well with him, as he complained about their unsettling effects to William soon after they returned from the archipelago, as well as a presence he hasn’t felt in a very long time, but believes has always been there.  Shortly after that, he went nuts and started killing Porre personnel, forcing them to trap Crono and the gang into fighting them; Sorin had become a liability rather than an asset.  The Elements represent the planet’s power, while the technology in his body represents the will of Lavos; the two magnify opposite sides of him, causing internal chaos that his technology cannot control.  Going from that, as well as what Crono saw in Dyasavah’s lab, they ask William to ask Sorin about the Chrono Break.  Upon doing this, the party’s suspicions are confirmed: Sorin IS the Chrono Break, or at least the Chrono Break’s power has become suffused into his own.  Sorin holds the Chrono Break inside of him, in place of a heart, for reasons even he does not know.  This explains why he was unable to kill Crono, Marle, and Lucca way back in Scenario 3 (flashback included for convenience).  According to the Frozen Flame, the Chrono Break banishes an entity from all timelines and permanently casts him into the Darkness Beyond Time.  However, if Crono, Marle, and Lucca were banished from history, the Frozen Flame never would have escaped the Ocean Palace and resurrected King Zeal, which would mean that Sorin would never get altered or get the Chrono Break and thus he would not have been able to banish them.  It’s a time paradox across multiple timelines; truly remarkable.  The team reasons that he could have simply tried to kill them physically, but they are, in a way, the cause of his emotional suffering, and thanks to King Zeal he knows this.  Once Sorin realizes that he is unable to make his enemies feel the kind of suffering he feels, he goes into despair rather than anger, because he’s powerless to attack them.  Post-that, he vividly remembers his entire life.  The party pleads for his forgiveness, trying to convince him that life is about more than just pain, and telling him it isn’t his fault, it’s Lavos.  Sorin retorts that no one would believe that he isn’t morally accountable for his actions, but the team believes otherwise, having themselves been on the receiving end of Lavos’ ire.  In Guardia, they’re lauded as heroes for it.  In the end, William is the only one Sorin trusts enough to judge him, and William communicates that he doesn’t know whether to hold Sorin responsible, but what he does know is that he still cares about Sorin.  He knows he probably shouldn’t, and that by most moral standards he’d be shot, but he still does.  Immediately after that, Sorin says something final and very childlike, almost like a five-year-old asking if their daddy’s going to be OK and the doctor just came out to tell them that he died an agonizing death.  He finally just dissolves into spirit energy, which condenses into the Chrono Break.  William Ishito is amazed, but he frankly suspected that something like this was going on beyond his senses.  He promises that he won’t tell anyone of what he’s encountered here.  He has a reason of his own not to; he fears for the mental and even physical safety of his kid brother Norris after what’s happened (yes, this is the Norris from CC).  He also promises to do his best to stop the war, even at the expense of his career, and the Black Wind fiasco ought to forestall it, at least for a while.  Now the team can get back to Chronopolis to have Belthasar analyze the Chrono Break and figure out how it can be used against King Zeal without damaging the timeline.  In the mean time, the player has the opportunity to do five different sidequests before the endgame.

Slated for further development:
 
~The Masamune's curse (setup for CC)
~Toma sidequest
~Ozzie, Flea & Slash sidequest
~Magus sidequest
~Robo & Lucca sidequest, Prometheus circuit
~The Fate of Gaspar, Spekkio and the End of Time (Dragon Tooth's power used somehow to effect this)
~The Future of Calasperan
~Final Battle
~Ending
~New Game +
~Programmer’s Ending

-------------------------

There....whew, that took a long time to proof and edit.  The whole thing is over twenty pages long in Word and contains almost 17,000 words, or the equivalent of just under three chapters of a normal book (average chapter length is considered to be 6,000 words or so).

Note: I've since gone back in and changed stuff in both posts because of mistakes DDK caught me on.

Oswego del Fuego

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #421 on: July 31, 2005, 04:00:07 am »
First, a few questions.

Why is Nadia's Bell at Chronopolis?  Unless Truce no longer exists in this time, would it not still be there?  It was a major cultural artifact, after all.

How will the battle at Truce work?  Will there be a large Truce location map?  Will it all be happening at Leene Square, or what?

Shouldn't Schala be a Shadow character, even with her support magic?  Along the same lines, what's with Heaven and Cold elements?  Even if these are more in line with the Japanese version, I don't see the point in changing Lighting and Water at this late date.

Now for some technical gameplay stuff.

Seing as those eight tech slots for each character seem to be at a premium, especially with all the new abilities you wish to include, why not give Marle's *Haste, Lucca's *Protect, and Magus's *Magic Wall to Schala?  This would make Schala's role as a support character more definite and unique.  You might also want to skip Schala's proposed *Cure altogether and just go with *Cure 2 to make room for status effects like chaos, blind, slow, stop, or whatever else you have in mind.

Alternately, maybe Schala could get *Protect 2 and *Haste 2 which affect all party members, or something like that.  (And since *Magic Wall already hits everyone, there could perhaps be a *Shell spell for targeting only one party member, which Magus or Marle or whomever might learn.)  *Heal 2 and a status-repairative spell like *Esuna or *Remedy would also be nice to see.  Or maybe something like *Black Hole, but affecting only a single enemy, or every enemy on the screen (since *Black Hole has an area affect).

Sorry, but I'm extremely interested in the mechanics of game construction, and I could go on about these technical points all day!

Getting back to the story, what exactly is this Oracle thing at Calesperan?

Is there going to be an El Nido world map?  How is this going to work?  Also, please have Zappa appear during the El Nido sequence.  He was the fourth Deva during that time, after all.

Sorry, I just can't get away from the technical stuff.  Just for giggles, I'm going to throw out some ideas for what to do with everybody's single techs.  Feel free to take or leave.

Crono:
 Cyclone
*Lightning
 Slash
 Spincut
*Lightning 2
*Life
 Confuse
*Luminaire

Marle:
 Aura
*Ice
 Provoke
 Charm
*Ice 2
*Cure 2
*Life 2
*QuantmStat

Lucca:
 Hypno Wave
*Fire
*Shell
 SniperShot (You listed this one.  Powerful physical attack?)
*Fire 2
 Mega Bomb
*Sngularity (Instant death for one enemy?)
*Flare

Robo:
 Cure Beam
 RocketPnch
 Laser Spin
 Heal Beam
 RoboTackle
 Uzzi Punch
 Area Bomb
 Shock

Magus:
*Lightning 2
*Ice 2
*Fire 2
*Dark Bomb
*Chant
*Dark Mist
*Black Hole
*DarkMatter

Glenn:
*Cure
*Water
 PoisonDart
*Heal
*Water 2
 Leap Slash
???
???

For Glenn's final two, you have a few possibilities.  *Heal 2 would work.  A super attack like Confuse would be great, but so would an "attack increases as HPs decrease" type of thing.  You could also end with an ultimate Water element spell, something like *Tsunami or *GreatFood or whatever.

Schala:
*Cure 2
*Blind
*Haste
*Slow
*Protect
*Magic Wall
*Stop
???

I would round out Schala's techs with either an ultimate attack spell for her element, or an instant-death-for-all type of deal.  Perhaps *Void or *Absolute 0 or whatever.

Those are just some ideas, and it IS 2:00 in the morning, so forgive me if it sounds... ramble-y.   :D

Oh, and I really like the idea of the Pendant itself being Schala's weapon.  It seems like the most appropriate possible choice.  Great idea.

Anyway, I'd probably write more (yes, EVEN MORE), but I think sleep is calling.

Good work as ever, Hadriel.  Looking forward to seeing more!

OdF

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #422 on: July 31, 2005, 04:12:26 am »
Truce doesn't any longer exist in 2302 A.D.; everything is under the control of the Central Regime, which is like the U.N. on steroids.  The point is to make it jive more closely with real history without being too blatant about it, since real history doesn't have much bearing on the story.

The battle at Truce is going to be in Leene Square.  

For the demo, the elements probably won't be changed, just as Renault, Roget and Luther will be in 1002 A.D.  It's an eventuality, and as you said it's intended to be closer to the Japanese version.

Technical stuff is excellent; we can't possibly have too many reminders of technical considerations (well, I guess we could, but you know what I mean).

The Oracle at Calasperan is a treasure of ancient Zeal that was lost when the flood overtook Calasperan.  None have dared venture there since, but Crono and the crew visit it because they think it might be able to help determine the source of the threat.  When it turns out that it's their host, they have a giant "oops" moment.

Zappa probably will make an appearance in El Nido.  However, if any of the characters learn too much about the crew it'll contradict CC.

Lucca's SniperShot tech does for her what Spincut does for Crono: 2x the damage.  It's good for either fire or magic-resistant targets.

teh Schala

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #423 on: July 31, 2005, 02:02:07 pm »
I haven't finished reading this whole thing yet, but earlier we had talked about what magic power Schala would have.  Some said healing power, some said dark, etc.  I think I said dark.  Anyway, I just had another thought.

Schala's been attached to the Mammon Machine...  In CC, she existed in the DBT...  I mean, the girl is practically synonymous with temporal disturbances...  So why not give a 5th attribute to her?  Time.

For reference, I looked up the abilities of the Time Mage in Final Fantasy Tactics for a couple ideas.  Plus, since we know we're taking out some of other characters' abilities (like one of the CML characters had a Haste spell), we could reassign it to Schala.

Time Mage's abilities in FFT (and effect that it would translate to in CT:CE)
Haste (Haste on 1 party member)
Haste 2 (In FFT, this was just like Haste but couldn't be Reflected.  In CT, this would probably be Haste on whole party)
Slow (Slow on 1 enemy)
Slow 2 (Slow on all enemies?)
Stop (Stops enemy from moving or attacking...doesn't wear off when attacked like Sleep would)
Don't Move (In FFT, this just kept enemies from walking around....not much use in CT)
Float (In FFT, rendered party members immune to earth magic since they floated above the ground, and were able to walk over water and stuff...again, not much use in CT)
Reflect (In FFT it said that this is done by "inverting magic space."  Maybe we could pass this off as a temporal effect)
Quick (Instantly fills one member's AT gauge to full)
Demi (Uses temporal fluxes to manipulate gravity and attack)
Demi 2 (Yeah, more powerful)
Meteor (Again, a gravity thing done by using temporal fluxes)

Hmm...  Thoughts on this?  Some of these really sound right up Schala's alley to me...

Anyway, I'll keep reading the plot :lol:

Shadow_Dragon

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #424 on: July 31, 2005, 02:29:25 pm »
Can someone explain the timeline of Sorin to me? I don't exactly understand him, especially how he goes from being an ally to an enemy..

Also, I don't like the idea of 'having to find the Chrono Break before Lavos'... It's like racing against someone 100 years in the past, if that makes any sense

Also, I don't understand King Zeal's timeline...

"...which Magus or Marle or whomever might learn." - should be 'whoever', but that's besides the point

Maybe I misssed it, but what kind of weapon does Schala use? Pendants?
Also, is there some more explanation for why she's in the base of the Mammon Machine at the beginning? Unless I'm missing something, Lavos abducted her in CT, so why would she be in the Mammon Machine? Also, if she were in the Mammon Machine the whole time, why didn't they just take her out in CT? I always read the first chapter, or whichever one that's and took it as silly and oversimplified, but expected it to be cleared up later...

Also, did anyone read what I had to say about Robo and Atropos? I think it's pretty valid...

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #425 on: July 31, 2005, 07:03:33 pm »
Racing against someone 100 years in the past becomes a lot more viable when you don't even know what year the target is in.

Sorin is ALWAYS an enemy.  Only at the end of his life arc does he find redemption.

We have no idea what happened to Schala between CT and CC.  Assumably, Lavos did abduct her, but once his Pocket Dimension was destroyed his post-1999 self went to the Tesseract.  It's conceivable that Schala could have been puked back out into reality post-that.

King Zeal died when the floating Zeal crashed down in CT.  Thanks to Team Crono's interference in the Ocean Palace, there was enough of a delay for him to evacuate, but everyone he knew and loved died, and he assumed that so did Janus and Schala.  That ripped his mind apart and made him a perfect candidate for Arbiter.  He wished Calasperan back into existence and started carrying out Lavos' schemes.  At the end, though, he finally manages to break free of the Frozen Flame's hold on him, like at the very end during the final battle.  We're still discussing the precise dynamics of this, as well as the Flame's eventual fate.

teh Schala

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #426 on: July 31, 2005, 07:07:23 pm »
Maybe the key there would be in him finally realizing that in spite of the illusion of Calasperan, that Schala & Janus are not an illusion, that his beloved children really DIDN'T die.  This would probably have a positive effect on him, snapping him back to reality at least to some degree.  And Hadriel, what did you think of my idea above regarding Schala's powers?

Legend of the Past

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #427 on: July 31, 2005, 07:08:14 pm »
Hmm, Hadriel, ZeaLitY, any idea when the full game's released? And, how much of the resources (Music, new sprites, maps and whatnot) have you gathered?

Shadow_Dragon

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #428 on: July 31, 2005, 07:55:25 pm »
I guess I really didn't understand that 'race against someone 100 years in the past' thing... Say Crono and Co. are in 1000AD and the Chrono Break sits in 600AD. Lavos obviously didn't get the Chrono Break already, or it'd mean the crew's disappearance, so why is there any threat of him finding it? So, if it wasn't found by Lavos by the time that Chrono and Co. decide to find it, Lavos will never find it.. and if Lavos did find it in 600AD, why can't Chrono and Co. go to 599AD and get it?

About Sorin: Isn't there a part where the crew finds him in 11998BC (I think that's the year), where the land's still frozen and Zeal is still afloat, they sit around a campfire with him, and then eventually try to take him to Chronopolis?

About King Zeal: I understood that much about King Zeal (err, I didn't know about the ending stuff, but that's besides the point); my question was meant to be focused on how Chrono and Co. defeat King Zeal in the Flame's version of Zeal (when it was up 2 years later than it should've been because King Zeal used the flame), and how he lives on in Calasperan... I forget exactly what happens in Calasperan, but I got the impression that the crew defeats King Zeal several times throughout the game, and he somehow comes back each time (maybe that was why I thought he had to be erased from time)

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #429 on: July 31, 2005, 08:23:57 pm »
Quote from: Shadow_Dragon
I guess I really didn't understand that 'race against someone 100 years in the past' thing... Say Crono and Co. are in 1000AD and the Chrono Break sits in 600AD. Lavos obviously didn't get the Chrono Break already, or it'd mean the crew's disappearance, so why is there any threat of him finding it? So, if it wasn't found by Lavos by the time that Chrono and Co. decide to find it, Lavos will never find it.. and if Lavos did find it in 600AD, why can't Chrono and Co. go to 599AD and get it?

About Sorin: Isn't there a part where the crew finds him in 11998BC (I think that's the year), where the land's still frozen and Zeal is still afloat, they sit around a campfire with him, and then eventually try to take him to Chronopolis?

About King Zeal: I understood that much about King Zeal (err, I didn't know about the ending stuff, but that's besides the point); my question was meant to be focused on how Chrono and Co. defeat King Zeal in the Flame's version of Zeal (when it was up 2 years later than it should've been because King Zeal used the flame), and how he lives on in Calasperan... I forget exactly what happens in Calasperan, but I got the impression that the crew defeats King Zeal several times throughout the game, and he somehow comes back each time (maybe that was why I thought he had to be erased from time)


There's a threat of him finding it because of the flow of Time Error; just as Lavos has the opportunity to go find it, so does the Crew.  Whoever wins that fight will determine the history from that point.

That part with Sorin that you named doesn't exist anywhere in the plot, nor do I think it's been discussed here.  It might have been one of the original ideas.  

Zeal is still down in 11,998 B.C.  You didn't read the part about the Zealian Schism; Calasperan is "ancient Zeal" and the Zeal we see in Chrono Trigger is the secessionist state.  King Zeal stayed behind in Calasperan after the floating Zeal rose; Calasperan is what he dreamed back into being with the Frozen Flame.  King Zeal is only actually fought in the end.

Shadow_Dragon

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #430 on: July 31, 2005, 11:53:41 pm »
ugh... I just made this post, went to dinner, then came back, thinking that I'd already submited the reply, and exited >_<


I guess I got the Sorin/extended Zeal mixed up, while they were seperate events, but they were both definitely in the first post of this thread, and I assume they're also in the new compilation post

Here they are (quoted from the first post):
Quote
Storyline 12

All this time, Belthasar is relaying messages of pure bewilderment, and confirms that they are in the real 11998 B.C. The citizens of Terra Cave confirm his greatest fear -- that this is a time in which Zeal still soars in the sky as the crown jewel of human achievement, and the Earthbound are relegated to the cold planet. Belthasar notes that the events of 12000 B.C. must have been somehow averted, and that the salvation of Zeal has ensured that the Ice Age never relents, and human society never evolves on the ground past the hovels of the Earthbound -- at least not for thousands more years. The party immediately travels to Zeal via Skyways, though they must battle guards stationed there. They make their way to Zeal Palace, and find Queen Zeal -- though she is still infatuated with Lavos, she remembers nothing of the events of Chrono Trigger, but nonetheless is joyful at the chance to beat some trespassers into the ground. After she is dispatched, she hints at where she is retreating; a Skyway gate is left in her wake. The party uses it, and travels halfway across the globe to the Royal Court, a small island with regal gardens and a second throne room; the gardeners inform the party where they are, though they wonder how they arrived. Inside, upon the second throne, sits King Zeal. He immediately welcomes the party, hoping that they've had a pleasurable stay in Zeal; the party immediately begins to question his living, history, and why Zeal has remained afloat. Zeal simply notes that he took some measures to avert all that nasty history, including instating clone versions of all the citizens, including Schala, Janus, and Queen Zeal. Schala/Magus and the party are horrified, but King Zeal merely welcomes them to enjoy a residency in the eternal kingdom of Zeal, holding that the world they knew will be erased as Zeal continues to fly, and the Ice Age below never ends.

The party insists on further knowledge and confrontation, but Zeal seems to not want a fight. Eventually, he retires to a balcony, with the view of the boundless sky below. The party follows him here; he once again tells them to have no worries, and live forever with him. A party member will have none of this, and physically attacks King Zeal. Thus begins a large battle; King Zeal is mostly a spellcaster, not wishing to soil his own hands. After being defeated, he collapses on the ground, muttering incoherent things, and blinks out of existence. The party, dumbfounded, begin to check the balcony, but Belthasar radios in and informs them that the death of King Zeal is serving as a trigger in time; however, explosions instantly radiate from the air and island; Belthasar notes that he cannot extract the party, but is dispatching the party's other members in an attempt to reach them while still retaining a grasp on the new dispatches, thus being able to pull them back. This fails; the entire party is caught in the maelstrom, and black out, the last vision being the figure in shadow in the sky.

Storyline 13

They awake on the ground, very injured; the must find shelter soon, which comes in the form of Zealian ruins buried long ago; they still contain a warming, magical aura. They fight a few automated guards and eventually reach the repository; there lies the Porre assassin. They have a long dialogue; the Porre assassin reflects on the erasure of his commands, and his gaining consciousness. He notes that after trying to stop the party from receiving the Epoch, he told Porre of their time traveling, and was given the instruction that should he be in a position to influence the past, he should do it for Porre's favor. After the events of 602 A.D., his human side grew discontent. He desires to come to Chronopolis with them. While around the fire, they discuss things, and reminisce of their journeys. As they're about to retire Belthasar bursts onto the scene, and is hugely happy they've been found. He notifies them that though the trigger of King Zeal has undone Zeal's continued survival, it will probably only be a matter of time before further ripples in the water of time effect catastrophic changes. Crono, Marle, or Lucca inquire as to what will happen in the modern time; Belthasar begs them to simply act out of faith, and continue the journey.

Before extracting the party, Belthasar reveals that the data taken from the Zealian volumes, their battles and encounters in the new Zeal, and temporal searches have yielded a few theories. He notes that he'd better not jump to any conclusions, but that the fate of the world rests on one man -- Gaspar. In all the tested scenarios in Chronopolis, knowledge that Gaspar retains is integral in rectifying the problem in time; the party is quick to ask where he can be found, but Belthasar regretfully states that he has disappeared from the scope of history. After the party transports back to the End of Time; the Porre agent has an adverse reaction to the magic being used to transport him and his damages, causing him to skew off into an unknown period.


Storyline 12 is where Zeal (not Calasperan) remains afloat, and 13 where the party meets Sorin, talks to him, and tries to bring him back to Chronopolis (but I think that was before you or whoever decided upon 'Sorin', so it's just 'Porrean Assassin/Agent')

Are there are articles written explaining Time Error? I haven't seen anything as of yet that fully describes it, so far all I've seen is basically, "Time NOT flowing is blasphemous, so there's Time Error"

Also, how do you comment on articles on the main site? I tried logging in using my forum account/password, but it says that my account doesn't exist, and I can't find a way to create an account.
Sorry if that's off-topic, but I'm not sure where to ask...

Oswego del Fuego

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #431 on: August 01, 2005, 12:55:09 am »
Hadriel:  Oh, I understand the story regarding the rise of the Central Regime.  I simply didn't get why the Central Regime rising should cause the nonexistence of Truce.  Sure, Guardia 's existence as an independent state might end, perhaps, but why Truce itself?  If Truce does not exist, then what habitation is present on the northern part of the Zenan mainland?

To be clear, I am not trying to talk you out of anything you have already decided to do!  I guess my concern is that I think you can go too far here, what with, like, redrawing the map of Zenan, or what have you.  For example, Cross has established explicitly that Medina still exists in 2400 AD.  While any number of possibilities present themselves, I took the explicit mention of Medina as Kato saying to us that 2400 AD, though unseen, would be at least as recognizable to us (from OUR vantage point, basically looking over the sholders of CML in 1000 AD) as, say, 600 AD or 1999 AD.  If Truce itself is absent....  I don't know, that just seems a bit far to me.

I also took the mention of Medina as indication that the demi-humans of El Nido were descendants of Zenan's demi-humans/Mystics.  Seems an obvious connection to me, though it seems like no one agrees with me on this.  :P

Anyway, was your thought that Truce was destroyed in the nuclear war?  'Cause I don't think even Nadia's Bell could survive that.   :D

Also, I must say that I really don't like the idea of renaming the elements.  Not when they were so named in the official English translation, and this project is basically a sequel to THAT particular work.  I mean, surely you wouldn't rename Magus to Jacky (shudder).  Translation purist-ism has always struck me as totally pointless.  Trigger, as we know it, exists in a particular fashion.  Why mess with that?  What does Japanese pureism actually accomplish?  How does it enhance the experience of the gamer?  How does it NOT strike pretty much every gamer as alien, intrusive, or at least funky?

As for the technical stuff, I'd be very interested in hearing from the folks behind Temporal Flux on this.  Depending upon the way Trigger is coded, it may not be possible to assign, say, Poison or Blind status to a new single Tech, because Trigger does not have any such abilities available to the playable characters.  What I mean is, Poison status may be coded to affect playable characters ONLY.  Maybe the game won't understand what you're trying to do if you try to apply it to an enemy.  These sorts of issues really should be addressed now, I think.  If it turns out that the things you plan on are impossible, it's best to know about it now, so that some new scenario can be developed.

Hopefully, though, that won't be the case!

Ditto all of this for the idea of creating a new element type for Schala.  The enemies, armors, etc. in Trigger respond in specific ways to the four existing elements.  I'm sure there's no way to create an entirely new element type that all items in the game must respond to in a certain way (as much as I'd love to see the Cross style color/types introduced - Crono/Yellow, Marle/White, Lucca/Red, Robo/Black, Frog/Blue, Alya/Green - I really don't think it can be done).

Glad to hear that Zappa should appear.  You're right that the Dragoons can't play too large a role, lest you upset the existing story.  But if Radius, Garai, and Viper get to be involved, I just feel that Zappa must, too.  It would be weird for him to be absent in anything involving the four Devas of the time.

OdF

teh Schala

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #432 on: August 01, 2005, 01:02:59 am »
Quote from: Oswego del Fuego
Ditto all of this for the idea of creating a new element type for Schala.  The enemies, armors, etc. in Trigger respond in specific ways to the four existing elements.  I'm sure there's no way to create an entirely new element type that all items in the game must respond to in a certain way (as much as I'd love to see the Cross style color/types introduced - Crono/Yellow, Marle/White, Lucca/Red, Robo/Black, Frog/Blue, Alya/Green - I really don't think it can be done).


Well, all that would probably need to be done in this case is actually to just have space for a 5th graphic "Time" that displays next to Schala's portrait in the status screen.  The techs would have to be coded, yes, but would not correspond to a single element -- as most or all of them are simply statuses such as Slow and Haste, etc.  They would be counted as non-elemental, like Crono's Cyclone, for instance.  So that part shouldn't be TOO big of an issue.

And yeah, there's a lot of stuff Crimson Echoes requires that we simply CANNOT do yet.  But seeing how the impossible a year ago is now simple, we're hoping to make the rest of it simple too. ;)  ...I HOPE. :shock:

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #433 on: August 01, 2005, 01:15:54 am »
Guardia's existence even in 2102 is questionable; it certainly isn't around today.  Statistically though, there is almost certainly a city somewhere named Truce.  Either way, though, whatever's around at that time isn't going to survive the nuclear BOOMWIG that happens as an independent state.  

As for changing the elements' names; Heaven and Cold are more physically correct than Water and Lightning.  Luminaire is a White-colored technique in CC, and the water itself isn't what does the damage; its extreme low temperature is.  Water is not a fundamental force in the universe, either.  Energy, and the lack of it, by contrast, determines all things that happen from a physical standpoint.

There's no way we'd ever rename the characters in any different way from the American versions, as our naming conventions are generally better.  Any objections for renaming characters fail because of the existence of Rockman.  The character's name is Rock before he becomes a fighting robot, so calling him Rockman is essentially the same thing as a guy named Joe getting superpowers and then renaming himself Joe Man; it's so incredibly lame that it doesn't even have to be in the same universe to destroy any thought of renaming the characters.

Shadow_Dragon: I have read the original story post in full.  What you just quoted does not appear in the amalgamated pairing of story posts.  

I do sometimes fear that I may be treating the story too possessively or exceeding what authority I have here; that's why I encourage people to voice any and all objections against the version I've pieced together.  I'm thankful that DDK was able to call me on some mistakes I made.

Edit: Zeality and a couple of others are concerned about the Chrono-ness of the story.  I'd like to gauge the popular vote on that; does it seem like something that could conceivably happen in Chrono?  If not, what parts need to be fixed?  Nothing is beyond being gutted and put back together differently; we want the story to be good.

The only specific issue that's been cited so far is Lavos' plan to become an uber-god.  My rationale is that Lavos acts the part of a hidden god anyway, and he has a massive amount of knowledge and capability.  I think it's conceivable that he'd try something like this or at least want to, greedy and amoral as he is.  The objection, near as I can tell, comes from the religious overtones present in the scheme.  I'd argue that there are already plenty of themes in the series proper that are religious in origin, but they're used much differently.  Daniel, for example, has stated several times on both Chronicles and here that he has a bit of an objection to "destroying destiny" in Chrono Cross, because it implies that humans don't need anyone else to guide them; given his beliefs it's a perfectly reasonable stance, and my own experiences haven't looked favorably upon the abilities of humanity to guide itself unaided.  Chrono Cross also didn't have quite the same feel as Chrono Trigger; probably why some people didn't like it.

Shadow_Dragon

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #434 on: August 01, 2005, 11:43:31 am »
Quote from: Hadriel
Shadow_Dragon: I have read the original story post in full.  What you just quoted does not appear in the amalgamated pairing of story posts.


So was it cut out? In the original, it goes from Storyline 10 (with choosing whom to side with with glenn) to Zeal (12001), to Chronopolis, then to abnormal Zeal (11998), but in the 'amalgamated' posts (stupid dictionary-requiring words) they go from choosing with glenn to calasperan...
However, it was definitely in the original posts.. though I can't tell whether you were trying to tell me that it wasn't or if you were just telling me you'd read them in response to quoting them..