Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development

[Daniel Krispin]

Well, it would be kind of hard to be epic, per say. I think the primary defenitions of epic exclude anything of this sort, or even Chrono Trigger itself, from being epic. To be epic, at least so far as the first and second dictionary defenitions go, it must either be a long poem about heroes, or a long tale speaking of what a people believe to be their origins. Thus, technically, this isn't actually epic, and neither are a lot of things that people call epic.
But that aside...
Actually, that is a rather impressive storyline, and I comment ZeaLitY and Hadriel for it. It bears their marks, and as such stands as far more mature than most fan-written things. I haven't really followed this before now... this is an RPGmaker game, correct? I daresay that if you follow this outline, as you have it, you will without question have a tale not only tying together Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, but easily worthy of both. But, I suppose, what less could be expected when ZeaLitY has his hand in it? Nothing I see, however, strikes me as more interesting and alive feeling than the parts concerning old Guardia. I do not know what it is, but it seems so real, even in summary. Perhaps it is that I always pictured old Guardia as something of an ancient Britain, and that feeling of the chill fields and all of a mysterious and untamed land seem to echo here. More than that, however, it seems to bear another resemblence, and that is to the founding of the first colonies in Italy by Aeneas, in legend. His band of Trojans becomes allied with some tribes and wages war with a lord named Turnus, I believe. As we all know, Rome goes on to become one of the mightiest empires in all history, but it had its origins - at least in legend - in those battles. Something about this you wrote reminded me of that. Perhaps it is the reference to a divine lineage that made it all the more poignant. Aeneas was the son of Aphrodite, after all. But even the way he brings forward this relic - and that his whole episode was later lost in history - and there is single battle against the foe, seems to echo very much of an old legend, such as the founding of Rome. Fantasy though it is, it doesn't seem like some fans writing something that they think would be cool - it seems to bear the marks of the way things are in true legend.

And more than this, I am most pleased with these names you choose. These are no childish sounding fanfiction names. Cedric the Executor could step right from the history of the north - in sound, it fits the first king of a land perfectly, and I mean without any fault. And tying in to my ramblings about the origin of Rome... Antaeus sounds like some ancient Roman name, or one that would spring from a Latin myth. Did any of you perchance read such things before writing this? A foolish name can bring down even a good story - but these are, as I said, perfect. No silly fantasy names here.

But a question regarding something that gave me cause for curiosity. You name certain places and the like in a different language of sorts. Is that a true language, or did you invent those? If it is the latter, do you adhere to grammar and rules of sorts? I only ask because such things interest me, and that is the way in which I do things as that - as Hadriel may know, I devise my own writing systems for my stories.

And furthermore, a question addressed to Hadriel... it was for this, was it not, that you asked me for some Latin/Greek names for weaponry? Did you ever receive my reply?

Really, the only fault I have is that you seem to write with such imagination, such originality, it makes me doubt my own skill in the imagining and writing of tales, and in the originality of my stories.

Post Scriptum

"A thousand fires have sparked within my mind! I see everything! I know all! And I know this: you must perish!"

A very good line, this is. Make absolutely certain not to remove it. Perhaps I'm biased because I happen to use the word 'sparked' in a similar manner at whiles, but I really do think it is good.

Post Post Scriptum

Sorry, adding a thing yet again, but another comment. The character of this Cedric, actually, seems to me to be a very fiery and intense commander, focussed on conquest. Different than I imagined the first king, to be sure, and strange for a peaceful kingdom, but thinking about it, perfect. It just seems so incredibly realistic. Actually, he seems to me similar to Alexander of Macedonia...

[Zaperking]

Just a question:

Will there be any Polyzomo (?) dolls in the game? Like the ones that had the black stone in CT. They were cool. Maybe you can make Mog the Moogle appear in one of the endings xD.

BTW, if Squareenix finds out about this, can they do anything? Or because this is being made in RPGmaker, they can't? Or if you don't destrobute it?

Sorry I don't know much about copyrights... Being young sucks >.>

[ZeaLitY]

Thanks for the comments. This will be a long post, so I'll knock out the easy stuff first:

Yeah sure, Poyozo Dolls. Since this is expansive fanwork, and doesn't intend to replace Cross or Trigger in any direct way, SquareEnix would lose much of its motivation to take action. It took an act of publicity titanism to get CTR noticed, anyway, so worrying about a C&D order is moot.

This is being made as a rom hack for Chrono Trigger, using primarily Temporal Flux. RPGMakerXP has crossed my mind, if not just for the music, but later in the process we can viably graft .spcs from other games like FF6 or Radical Dreamers into the rom. The full intent of this project, when it began, was to stake the ultimate claim in a fanmade game, and quite literally realize "Chrono Break" as a story tying the two games together.

Thanks hugely; I'm also very much intrigued by that sense of wilderness, living legends and indomitable spirits that reigned in ages ago. Just imagine, being in a Mead Hall at midnight, the vikings having gone to sleep -- imagine that for miles around, a cold wind is blowing, and the land stretches on forever in untamed, chilly fury. It is no wonder that beasts and giants were said to roam these lands. I was glad to think of that old Guardian knight for the story; I wanted to have someone from the past exist in 602 A.D. in that monastery to converse with the party, and even give Crono a run for his money in terms of how well he can uphold the kingdom.

The events of 1 A.D. always strike me as a huge turning point in the history of the Chrono series that has gone somewhat unnoticed. Radical Dreamers alludes to Guardia holding the Frozen Flame, and I concluded that it helped them achieve domination over the other tribes. However, much of the story comes from an abandoned fanfiction idea. When the Compendium was first built, Ramsus wrote a few sentences on an old King who suffered a complete physical and mental breakdown. I talked with him on the subject, and it was decided that I would write an extensive piece on the founding of Guardia. It would cover first the exploits of King Alfred, selected to lead the armies of Guardia over his older brother by the Flame's choosing. He was to maraud the northern continent of Zenan until it was firmly under his control, and then subdue Dorino, which would become the site of massive bloodshed. His ambition and foolishness would lead him, after conquering most of southern Zenan, to try and cleanse the Mystic strongholds on Medina as well; this would backfire completely, and he would be utterly destroyed. His son, Alexander, would later approach war in a much more professional light, using the Frozen Flame appropriately and not brooking war at the drop of a hat.

Cedric the Executor comes in from this old outline, complete with the Frozen Flame. I've played Medieval Total War and the Viking Invasion, and it seemed fitting to give him a title. I also liked the name Cedric, since it didn't seem too indigenous to British-rooted names. Hadriel and I couldn't figure out a title after I suggested Executor, so it stuck; it will play into a theme I'm about to elucidate. They're walking right in on Cedric's last conquests; as with any person, the Frozen Flame imparts a certain sense of zeal within him, and now that he has it, he can impose his will upon anything as he pleases. His gritty fighting and Old Testament brutality will accent another theme. Antaeus actually popped right into my mind, like pure, divine inspiration. I didn't even have to think; it was like a clear sound -- the Porrean commander will be Antaeus.

So far, Hadriel and I have been using Romance langauges + German as derivates for weapons. Geistrand meaning Ghost-Sword, and so on. The names of the ruins of ancient, pre-flight Zeal are all Norse nouns.

The ideas have been slow and forthcoming. The Vanguard was originally a plot device in modern times, but soon began to represent its own theme of good intentions ending in ruin, and the Romantic ideals of chivalry versus the equitable rights of modern civilization.

I have to leave, but I'm going to write about the themes later. As of now, Crimson Echoes is mostly on hold simply because I'd like to finish the Encyclopedia and other matters so that I can solicit the help of many people. I'm still attempting to learn rom hacking as it pertains to CT.

[Daniel Krispin]

quote="ZeaLitY"] it was like a clear sound -- the Porrean commander will be Antaeus.
[/quote]
A question: how is the pronounciation of it given? It might just be me, but it sounds Greco-Roman, and thus would be Unt(like in the word runt)-ai(like the y in my, only shorter)-oos(sort of like a German ü... no equivalent in English); Greek it would be AvTaius, I suppose.

So far, Hadriel and I have been using Romance langauges + German as derivates for weapons. Geistrand meaning Ghost-Sword, and so on. The names of the ruins of ancient, pre-flight Zeal are all Norse nouns.

I thought they looked like real names. But are you certain on all of them? I was under the assumption that fate in Norse was something more like 'urd', thus Sigurd, Urd being one of the Norns. I may be wrong. Also, I question the Svyrdass. God is ‘gud’, from what my myths book tells me, thus Odin’s name Haptagud, god of cargoes. Thus would it not be more like Svyrdgud? Just a thought.
Also, Geistrand...I thought sword is schwert in German - apologies, I know how its said - I am technically half-German - but I have trouble spelling it. And isn't geist 'spirit', not 'ghost'... I can't remember if there's a distinction or not. I’ll have to ask my father. My mother just came by, and told me that ‘rand’ is an edge, so I suppose technically you’re saying ‘sprit-edge.’
Now this makes sense: Hadriel asked me a while back about some weapon names in Greek and Latin, and I researched for a while and gave him a reply, but I'm not sure what became of that. I ended up with 'falx obsura' and 'drepanon skieois' and things such as that, so I suppose those don't sound that great.
But a suggestion about the Zeal place names... old Norse and the like has northern feel, and Zeal does not, seeming more like Atlantis and something of the Classical world. I would rather suggest using a language that is more equatorly and ancient (or, personally, fully make up your own... that’s the most fun and rewarding, but from experience it takes forever to even devise a decently sized vocabulary.) But realistically, Greek might be possible. Names such as Anaximander sound pretty ancient. Sword-god would be a mixture of Theos and Ksiphos, then. I’d say go further back, though... perhaps ask Legend over at Chronicles for some Hebrew names for these things, or look in the old accounts of the Akkadians and Sumerians - place names such as Ekbatana and Ashur do have quite an ancient sound to them, as do names such as Marduk, Tiamat, and Ishtar. Those, and Greek, are what I borrowed from when I was making the Zeal language for my story.
Sorry if I'm a little too curious about the naming and such. As I've said, putting names and other languages into stories is a thing of great interest to me. To get the proper feel out of a place name, and make it seem as though it belongs and has meaning is a thing I put great worth in.

[Hadriel]

Guardian, did you listen to the rearranged .spc files I posted?  You can use Winamp or download Meridian Advance, which is what I use.  More will come soon.  Next week is almost entirely free for me, so I'm going to get some work done on this and Edge of Forever, which I've greatly expanded the storyline to.

I'm looking at the Zeal section right now, trying to think of ways to improve it.  For some reason, I feel ill-at-ease about using Zeal, because of the interaction with Dalton and Queen Zeal -- I fear that that might mess up the heroes' original quest to destroy Lavos.  Some of the scenarios are still being edited -- when Zaperking mentioned the dream sequences, a couple of simple rearrangement ideas popped into my head.  I hope that these would further the storyline behind the Dragon Tooth and give it more of a plot function.

And yes, that's why I asked you for the weapon names.  We are going to use at least one, I believe -- the Ara Dei that you gave me, as Crono's ultimate weapon.  The Rainbow Sword, of course, needed a new name, and I still rather like Arco Iris, even though I'm horrible at Spanish.  Could I possibly borrow your brain for the duration of the IB Spanish exam?

[Daniel Krispin]

Here's an idea for one of Janus' weapons: 'Falx Saturnus' or 'Kronion Drepanon' ... if I got those right, those are either 'sickle of Saturn' or 'sickle of Kronos', essentially the same thing in Rome/Greek myth. For those that might not know, it was with this that Kronos castred his father Ouranos, and took dominion over the world. Later, Zeus fought Typheous with the same weapon.
And of what aid would my mind be for Spanish?

[Hadriel]

Because you're better with foreign languages than I am.  Not like that's hard to do.

[Zaperking]

Just on the language for Zeal Places, don't forget to use Arabic sounding names ^.^ I was going to suggest it, but I guess Guardian_Of_Ages got it down with the Marduk, Ishtar etc.
Maybe the whole point of Zeal was to make it seem Arabic when Square first made it? Kajar? The palaces have that Arabian arcitechture, the clothes etc.

On the topic of weapons:
If you're going to make weapons with really foreign names, are you going to add like a little description of them like the Key items in CC? I wouldn't really understand what a "Ara Dei" would be. Kinda makes me think of Aurorae though.

[Hadriel]

Ara Dei is Latin.  It means Altar of God.  It's basically the Arco Iris put on temporal steroids.

[Chrono'99]

Just on the language for Zeal Places, don't forget to use Arabic sounding names ^.^ I was going to suggest it, but I guess Guardian_Of_Ages got it down with the Marduk, Ishtar etc.
Maybe the whole point of Zeal was to make it seem Arabic when Square first made it? Kajar? The palaces have that Arabian arcitechture, the clothes etc.

I also think Arabic names would sound good. If I recall correctly Schala is an Arabic name, Sarah is Hebrew, Kajar is Iranian, and Gaspar, Melchior and Belthasar are names from the Middle East, etc.

it was like a clear sound -- the Porrean commander will be Antaeus.

A question: how is the pronounciation of it given? It might just be me, but it sounds Greco-Roman, and thus would be Unt(like in the word runt)-ai(like the y in my, only shorter)-oos(sort of like a German ü... no equivalent in English); Greek it would be AvTaius, I suppose.

I don't know if you took the name from this but Antaeus is actually Änti's Greek name. Änti was a giant from Berber mythology. He was supposed to be invincible as long as his feet were in contact with the ground. In Greek mythology, Antaeus was killed by Herakles who managed to lift him off the ground and strangle him.

[Radical_Dreamer]

I also think Arabic names would sound good. If I recall correctly Schala is an Arabic name, Sarah is Hebrew, Kajar is Iranian, and Gaspar, Melchior and Belthasar are names from the Middle East, etc.

Farsi. The language spoken in Iran is called Farsi. The neighborhood I grew up in was ~70% Persian, so I'd heard it called several names (Iranian, Persian) but Farsi is the "official" name.

[Anonymous]

The whole storyline sounds great ^^!
So are you gonna make a game outta this someday? If you are, all things you need are right there to grab. (<- Maybe CT rips of the maps? Since it would be a fangame, you can freely use 'em!)
As for names, it'd surely be cool to have names from different languages, but do try to keep 'em all in place, like not putting a German name among all Farsi names and stuff, that'd be a bit strange.
If you need people experienced in gamemaking, I suggest www.gamingw.com/forums to search for them. Anyway, it does sound good! (For some time I've really been wanting to see some new Chrono stuff...) Keep up the good work ^^! I'd help, but I just started with Latin class  this schoolyear.... If you need Dutch names, I'm your buddy x_x! (<But those sound boring, atleast to me.)

[X ATM038x]

Erm, sorry, that was me x_x...
Anyways, having names as SuperZwaard in your games would definitly sound stupid, also Duister Zwaard or something (SuperSword, Dark Sword ;_;)
Shoosh, stupid guest ^^.

[Thorn]

Gentlemen (and ladies, respectively) I humbly offer my services in such a worthy endeavor as this. In my occupation, I happen to be an entertainer; an actor. I have firm grasps of dialogue construction, having written (and in the process of writing) productions for community theater. I bow to the almighty force of this project, and would like a jump onto the project, if it would please its creators.

[Daniel Krispin]

Gentlemen (and ladies, respectively) I humbly offer my services in such a worthy endeavor as this. In my occupation, I happen to be an entertainer; an actor. I have firm grasps of dialogue construction, having written (and in the process of writing) productions for community theater. I bow to the almighty force of this project, and would like a jump onto the project, if it would please its creators.

Wow. You guys (ZeaLitY and Hadriel) really seem to have a thing going here if professionals are offering to help. This is setting up to be a thing as looked for as the 'true CB'.

I don't know if you took the name from this but Antaeus is actually Änti's Greek name. Änti was a giant from Berber mythology. He was supposed to be invincible as long as his feet were in contact with the ground. In Greek mythology, Antaeus was killed by Herakles who managed to lift him off the ground and strangle him.

Now THAT I did not remember. I just looked it up, and lo and behold! It is so! Antaios, even as you described. That makes the name all the more impressive, if it is actually a true Greek/Hellenic name that you used without knowing it. Kudos once again!
Alright, my apologies, but I've got a love for Greek, and as I keep saying all over the place, it is my intent to some day learn it and Latin. But in the meantime I content myself with browsing through the Lexicon to find the meanings of words, and did so with this one. Well, not only is it a name, it's a word proper. It means'set over against', 'right opposite', or, also, 'opposed to, hostile, hateful'... man, ZeaLitY, Hadriel... you had BETTER not change this name. It is, as I have said before, perfect for the part... even more so with this sort of meaning!