Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development  (Read 61088 times)

Oswego del Fuego

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #465 on: August 07, 2005, 07:46:46 pm »
Sweet, I'm not the only one who thought of Death Grip.  Also, I rather liked the simplicity of "Clasp."  This was a weapon name suggested in the early going by someone else (sorry, can't recall who).

As for Schala, is she going to get new pendants along the way, or is her existing weapon simply going to increase in power, as Ayla's fist does?  I'd argue for the latter, because how many items similar to Schala's special pendant can there be?

OdF

teh Schala

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #466 on: August 07, 2005, 07:47:27 pm »
Quote from: Daniel Krispin
Schala
1 - (Unnamed - A pendant with a jewel)^
2 - (Unnamed)
3 - (Unnamed)
4 - (Unnamed)
5 - (Unnamed)
6 - (Unnamed)
7 - (Unnamed)
8 - (Unnamed - has a star on it, but I am considering not using this drawing)^
9 - (Unnamed)


How about:
1 - Dreamstone Pendant (or whatever we want to call the one that she had in CT)
2 - ?
3 - Platinum Gem
4 - Sun Charm
5 - Emerald Bangle
6 - Diamond Teardrop
7 - Jewel of Hope
8 - Dream Lavalliere (I actually put this here without thinking of Dreamstone, but this could be the name for her Dreamstone Pendant after it's powered up again)
9 - Star Of Zeal (If we take Daniel's drawing with a star in it, we can use it here as Schala's Dreamstone+Sunstone+RainbowShell or whatever weapon.  Her uber-awesome one.)

I couldn't rack my brain hard enough to come up with one more...  But see what you think. :)

By the way, just a thought...  In Lunar: Eternal Blue, after Lucia (a sort of Schala-like character in herself) leaves your party permanently, you can later find an artifact called Lucia's Tear or something like that...  (In the remake, I think it was Lucia's Pendant that did this...)  Anyway, when equipped, the item caused that character's attacks to hit 1 enemy as normal, and then that damage number would be cut in half and dealt to all other enemies too.  Was VERY awesome, and pretty much super-secret.

It might be cool to do something like that here too...  Schala's certainly not someone whom you would normally use her normal attacks, and if we make it seem like the Dream Lavalliere is her final weapon...and then she can somehow acquire the Star Of Zeal through a secret sidequest and it would do the same thing as Lucia's Tear above...  I think that would add an interesting dynamic of gameplay for Schala, not to mention it'd be just freaking awesome. 8)  Yeah, it would be ownage, but by the time you can get the item, you'd be pretty much owning everything anyway.  So it wouldn't provide that much of an advantage...until New Game +.  Or better yet, maybe you can only get the Star Of Zeal IN New Game +!  :twisted:   Thoughts?

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #467 on: August 08, 2005, 05:53:07 pm »
On retconning: Yeah, let's adjust it like you guys said; the Frozen Flame somehow resurrected the King.  As far as its implications for the Sorin scenario, it's been suspected that the Frozen Flame was inside the Mammon Machine.  It can be said that in the Lavos timeline, the Flame was never freed from the machine, but the Masamune did it in Keystone when Crono threw it.  That way, a few pieces have been adjusted to get basically the same end result but with less retcon dumbness.

On weapons: Lucca's unnamed weapon should perhaps be named the Sterling.  Daniel's suggestion that it be a WWII rifle brings this on; the Sterling SMG was standard-issue in that war.  It serves as the basis for the E-11 blaster rifle commonly carried by stormtroopers, so that should give an idea of what it looks like.

I suggested Astaroth a while back for Magus' unnamed scythe, but there's bound to be something better out there.

Schala's pendants already have a great list of names for them.  Only thing that's not been done is the uber-Masamune, the circumstances of which will have to be altered anyway.

On where I've been for the past 4 days...

There are five of us: me, my best friend, another asshole friend of ours from band, a really cheap friend of ours with a crappy home life, and the lamest guy in existence ever.  Together, we comprise a scenario paintball team named the Horsemen of the Apocalypse aka the Power Rangers.  I'm the Blue Ranger because I'm the engineer-type; not only do I dress in blue frequently, my R6 E-force electric marker with sniper barrel, burstfire and autofire is metallic blue.  My best friend who I recently imparted a Chrono addiction to is the White Ranger, and he wields a Tippmann 98 custom with flatline barrel.  The asshole squad captain guy is the Green Ranger, and his Tippmann A-5 comes with autofire and flatline barrel.  Or maybe it's the other way around, I forgot.  The poor guy's the Black Ranger, and I swear he dug his paintball gun up out of the ruins of Lucca's burnt house, because they haven't made that model in like 1000 years.  The lame dude, who we call Mouse, is the Yellow Ranger for 3 reasons.  1) he's an incredible pansy.  2) the actress who played the Yellow Ranger died in a car crash a few years ago.  3) he has to rent guns when we go to play.  We're trying to acquire a specific vehicle to use as a tank; since its position is going to be obvious, we're going to be blaring the Power Rangers theme, One-Winged Angel, the Imperial March, and the Imperial Rage out of a specially installed set of speakers while our armored turret gunners reduce everyone to oblivion.

So my friends were having arguments with their parents.  I'm sort of a calming influence there.  After getting me outfitted for the game, we drove over to the captain's house (read: shitty apartment) with an album full of Chrono music playing, ordered pizza, went to Wal-Mart in the middle of the night, played video games, watched Robin Williams Live on Broadway, drank scotch mixed with Sunkist, Hawaiian Punch, and Tang, set off fireworks on the UTA campus at 3:30 AM, watched Dawn of the Dead, played Republic Commando and Battlefront, and finally drove to the paintball game with One-Winged Angel on continuous loop, bitching out the guys who didn't want to hear it.  It was a fun game, except for the part where I reffed without a mic and got lost in the wilderness.  Oh yeah, and the rashes and heat stroke.  I swear I lost 15 pounds in one day.  After the game ended, we all went to IHOP and pigged out.  Finally, when we got home, nearly dead, I slept for about 16 hours.  Today I finally managed to get some work done on that Atlas Shrugged essay.

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #468 on: August 08, 2005, 06:29:50 pm »
Quote from: Hadriel
We're trying to acquire a specific vehicle to use as a tank; since its position is going to be obvious, we're going to be blaring the Power Rangers theme, One-Winged Angel, the Imperial March, and the Imperial Rage out of a specially installed set of speakers while our armored turret gunners reduce everyone to oblivion.


Sounds like Kelly's Heroes. You ever seen that movie? It's about some GIs in the second world war who hear about a stache of gold in a bank in France, that's behind enemy lines. They basically go AWOL, and gather a squad about them to get to this bank, and take the gold, before the rest of the army gets there, or the Germans move it. It's pretty funny, actually. The reason I thought of it on hearing this, is that they recruit a tank squad which essentially comprises of hippies (hippies in WWII!) who drive these Shermans outfitted with large tubing on their guns to make them look like they have a bigger calibre, carry paint rounds for their gun (they make the mistake near the end, when they have Tiger cornered from the back, of firing one of the red paint rounds. Pretty funny.) and lastly, they have speakers outfitted on their tanks from which they play music really loud to, as their commander - played by Donald Sutherland -says, calm them down during battle. The one scene where they attack a German army base to 60's music playing from their tanks is quite funny. Anyway, when you spoke of your thing there, it reminded me of this.

Hadriel

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« Reply #469 on: August 08, 2005, 08:03:53 pm »
I have so never heard of that movie.

Anyway, what's left?  I lost track in my absence.

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #470 on: August 08, 2005, 11:36:47 pm »
Quote from: Hadriel
I have so never heard of that movie.

Anyway, what's left?  I lost track in my absence.


Good movie, you should watch it. Clint Eastwood is the main character.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065938/

Anyway... we have almost all the weapons accounted for now, I think. Only two or three pendants, an arm or two, and a weapon of Lucca's, I think.

Now, here is a question. I know you all are trying to keep CE a little bit more quiet because of the C&D orders, but that's getting a little concerned. You see, if SE does want to shut something like this down, the news about it gives them ample time to do so, and the developers ample time to respectfully bow out (like CTR and CTRP.) However, in doing this, we are not affording SE that chance. The end result may be a very annoyed SE if we simply release it, and they have to retroactively try to stop it if they rule it a 'threat' to their profits. Essentially, I'm worried we'd get sued simply because we're keeping it more secret, and planning to release it more quietly. Surely, it gives it a better chance of succeeding, but poses a little bit of a danger for us. And I seriously don't want a multi-million dollar company mad at me. So, perhaps we should be a little more open with it? Sorry, I'm just getting a little worried now that I'm helping with it.

teh Schala

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #471 on: August 08, 2005, 11:56:52 pm »
DivineDragoonKain mentioned this to me on AIM one night, and explained his take.  It's similar to yours, Daniel, though for a different reason.

He said that CTR and CTRP were remake projects built from the ground up.  Crimson Echoes is not.  It's a ROM hack.  Just like those zillions of ROM hacks you see at Acmlm's Board.  According to Kain, Square will take one look at us and say, "Meh, they're ROM hackers...  What do they care about the law anyway?  It's already illegal for them to even HAVE the ROM..."  In other words, he believes they wouldn't even bother us, partly due to the nature of the way we're doing this project.

Not to mention -- and Kain didn't say this, but I am -- even if they did shut it down because of the ROM hack...  we could still just go with RPG Maker XP and get started on that.  I know the purpose of Crimson Echoes is to prove that CT ROM hacking is possible, so it would kind of defeat the purpose, but we're this far into the story already...  Anyway, NO ONE gets bothered about RPG Maker productions.  Ever.  And it WOULD give us greater ease of creating playable Schala, playable Glenn, and the usage of Claado Shou's original music...not to mention even the incorporation of Chrono Symphonic into a few key points if we wanted.

The possibilities don't even stop there.  Chrono Trigger has been hacked...so why not RPG Maker itself?  The things that limit RPG Maker and keep it from doing everything that Chrono Trigger does...even those things could be changed with time.  The ability to use 4 functional buttons (instead of just "Action" and "Cancel") could be implemented with time, etc.

Point is, Daniel and Kain are right...  There's really nothing we're gaining by keeping things quiet.  Although there are some things that SHOULD be kept quiet, just for the fun of surprising our "audience," eh? :)

Shinrin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #472 on: August 09, 2005, 02:44:55 am »
if square enix was gonna shut down a hack project they would have started with ether ff5e, but i haven't really seen anyone stop a hack project. and from someone i know. i'm not 100% sure about this but the snes and games are no longer copyrighted right now. but that's what i've been told by someone. there shouldn't be much to worry about. nintendo didn't stop the 100's of mario hacks out there, why would square worry about CT:CE? i think someone that worked for square noted something about ff6e or other Game translations. (not mention by name or soething but noted that they know.)

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #473 on: August 09, 2005, 03:21:27 am »
I just did another drawing. Not a weapon, though, nor yet armour nor an accessory. I'll colour it, then post it, though I won't say what it is until I'm done. I'm not certain it will turn out as well as I would like, but I'll try.

teh Schala

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« Reply #474 on: August 09, 2005, 03:24:59 am »
Quote from: Shinrin
if square enix was gonna shut down a hack project they would have started with ether ff5e, but i haven't really seen anyone stop a hack project. and from someone i know. i'm not 100% sure about this but the snes and games are no longer copyrighted right now. but that's what i've been told by someone. there shouldn't be much to worry about. nintendo didn't stop the 100's of mario hacks out there, why would square worry about CT:CE? i think someone that worked for square noted something about ff6e or other Game translations. (not mention by name or soething but noted that they know.)


Probably not the case, Shin.  Copyrights last for a good 20 years.  CT is only ten. ;)  And that's IF they don't bother to renew the copyright!  Remember the N64?  It was originally going to be named the Ultra 64, but there was some defunct, no-longer-existent game system back in the stone age called the Ultra, and so Nintendo got shot down on that name, even though it was back in the days of Atari 2600 and the like.

Hadriel

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« Reply #475 on: August 09, 2005, 06:18:01 am »
Well, CTRP technically wasn't built from the ground up; it was a mod for Unreal Tournament 2004.  That's why it's partially shocking; historically, mods have ALWAYS been exempt from C&D orders under the Fair Use Act because they're non-profit.  I visit PCGameMods with regularity because of Jedi Academy, and there are gazillions of mods, maps, skins, and weapons there.  I have skinpacks dedicated to Nintendo, the giant sword pack with the Master Sword and Sephiroth's Masamune, Spider-Man, other Expanded Universe characters, and innumerable others.  Yet none of the companies have ever bothered to do anything about it, assumably because it's good public.  The amount of comments in the vein of "man, this is an awesome (Link/Gordon Freeman/Duke Nukem) skin, I can't wait for the next game" is astronomical.  CTRP could have been nothing else except good public.  The problem I can see with it is far too conspiratorial for my taste, but here it is: perhaps Chrono simply does not fit into SE's current moneymaking scheme of rehashing Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest over and over again.  I'd prefer not to think that was the case.  In any case, I pressured the guys over at CTRP to at least release a few of the things they'd made individually, but so far nothing's happening.  If SE was truly that greedy, they would have shut down every single ROM hack ever.  The problem with ours is the sheer magnitude of it; it purports to not just be another ROM hack, but to be the hack to end all hacks.

Oswego del Fuego

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« Reply #476 on: August 09, 2005, 07:41:24 pm »
I don't think there's much chance at all of this project being shut down, or lawsuits being filed, if this project went fully public.

However, I think it would be a terrible mistake to go public so freaking early in the process!

It's bad form to promise something to the public at large, like a completed game, when half the technical issues involved aren't even worked out yet.

Secondly, even if the chance is minimal, I don't think we should play Russian roulette with C&D orders.

As I see it, there is no downside to waiting to go public until the project is complete.  If the complete hack is released and Square Enix doesn't like it, they will issue a C&D.  They will NOT sue.  They must issue a C&D first, and all they can request is that the Compendium (or whoever else) immediately stop providing the hack to the public.  And I say, big deal, because if you wait until the game is finished to go public with it, by the time Square Enix got wind of it, it would be all over the internet, and you wouldn't need the Compendium to go on hosting it.  And my understanding is that, assuming the C&D order was obeyed, Square Enix could not sue anyone unless thhey could prove real and concrete damages in court--which they simply could never demonstate CE or any other mere hack accomplished.

So... let's just keep it under wraps for now, and not worry about any of it once the game is done.

And to respond to what Hadriel says, I think the fact that Square Enix was so emphatic about shutting down other projects is proof positive that they intend to keep the Crono franchise going.  It's totally reasonable for Square Enix to think that the 3D remake projects could eat into the profits of any Crono remake of their own design.  I can't tell you how many people I heard saying things like, "This is even better than anything Square would do."  I frankly take it for granted that at least one more Crono game will be produced.  Incidents like those we're discussing here are as good as proof to me.

OdF

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #477 on: August 09, 2005, 09:53:16 pm »
I'm starting to colour the picture, now. I'll see how it turns out.

Hadriel

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« Reply #478 on: August 09, 2005, 09:59:29 pm »
Quote from: Oswego del Fuego
I don't think there's much chance at all of this project being shut down, or lawsuits being filed, if this project went fully public.

However, I think it would be a terrible mistake to go public so freaking early in the process!

It's bad form to promise something to the public at large, like a completed game, when half the technical issues involved aren't even worked out yet.

Secondly, even if the chance is minimal, I don't think we should play Russian roulette with C&D orders.

As I see it, there is no downside to waiting to go public until the project is complete.  If the complete hack is released and Square Enix doesn't like it, they will issue a C&D.  They will NOT sue.  They must issue a C&D first, and all they can request is that the Compendium (or whoever else) immediately stop providing the hack to the public.  And I say, big deal, because if you wait until the game is finished to go public with it, by the time Square Enix got wind of it, it would be all over the internet, and you wouldn't need the Compendium to go on hosting it.  And my understanding is that, assuming the C&D order was obeyed, Square Enix could not sue anyone unless thhey could prove real and concrete damages in court--which they simply could never demonstate CE or any other mere hack accomplished.

So... let's just keep it under wraps for now, and not worry about any of it once the game is done.

And to respond to what Hadriel says, I think the fact that Square Enix was so emphatic about shutting down other projects is proof positive that they intend to keep the Crono franchise going.  It's totally reasonable for Square Enix to think that the 3D remake projects could eat into the profits of any Crono remake of their own design.  I can't tell you how many people I heard saying things like, "This is even better than anything Square would do."  I frankly take it for granted that at least one more Crono game will be produced.  Incidents like those we're discussing here are as good as proof to me.

OdF


I hope to God you're right.

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #479 on: August 10, 2005, 03:03:42 am »
Alright, I was thinking, Glenn seems to be the only character now without a drawing, as since he is no longer a frog, his old one no longer matches. So... what about this:



I do generally quite dislike the more anime style, though.