Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development  (Read 60902 times)

JossiRossi

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #615 on: January 18, 2006, 05:49:45 am »
Plot coming?

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #616 on: January 19, 2006, 04:22:30 pm »
Yeah, eventually.  Turns out I'm not just having problems sending the plot, I can't even upload pictures to anything I use to host images.  I'll probably end up having to put it on a floppy and send it via a library computer.

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #617 on: January 20, 2006, 03:38:06 am »
And don't forget my idea while you're at it.

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #618 on: January 20, 2006, 05:39:35 am »
So I'm awake right now, and I've been tossing around names for Lavos' bitch of a bioweapon.  In a way, this thing is like the son of Lavos, in the same sense that Jesus is the son of God.  So I figure, why not use one of Jesus' titles, or take one and twist it in a way that'll get me sent to the special hell reserved for sexual predators, people who talk in the theater, and all those fucking n00bs on CounterStrike?

The idea behind using Geddon was to reference two things at once, especially since what I had in mind for the actual battle mechanics involved the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, which you'd already know if my Internet wasn't being a dick.  Basically, they fight King Zeal first, and then the weapon.  After that, King Zeal manages to break free of Lavos' mind control, and there's a monologue about the nature of Zurvan and all the ways he's failed his kingdom and his children.  Following that, there's a surreal corridor resembling the final areas of Final Fantasy IX and X, except for all the kickass death metal right at the end, complete with a Save Point.  After they get to the end of that, the weapon's mutated into its final form.  It resembles a cross between Lavos, Ultima Weapon, and some sick creature out of every supernatural, gothic horror game you can imagine.  It has its core, plus four cycling "armors" you have to destroy to get to it.  The armors are each shaped differently, and they're all named after demons representing war, famine, pestilence, and reality televi--I mean death.  Since Lavos is attempting to assume the role of God, in a moral sense as well as with regards to the sheer acquisition of power, why not have this bioweapon be its son, and King Zeal be his John the Baptist?  So I went to Wikipedia and found some names for exploitation:

The Greek term Kyrios, simply meaning "the Lord."
Divi filius, meaning "son of God"; this was a title used by Roman emperors.
INRI, the abbreviation found on the cross above Jesus' head.  It stands for Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum, or "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews."
Kalima, meaning "the Word."  This is a title given to Jesus in the Qur'an.

Which one's the easiest to twist around to mean something vulgar, vile, or generally threatening?

Also, there are some options for the names of the four demons.  There exists Samael, an Angel of Death sometimes identified with Satan, or Asmodeus, another bad dude.  Keeping in mind that war and death are different things, Alastor is another usable name.  Astaroth still hasn't been used, and there are a bunch of other names of angels who by human standards would toe the line or even cross it due to their jobs, Azrael (Izrail in the original Islamic text) being one.

I have no classes today, so I'm going to put this stuff on a floppy and send it at the library.

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #619 on: January 20, 2006, 08:36:55 pm »
Quote from: Hadriel
So I'm awake ...aeorum, or "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews."
Kalima, meaning "the Word."  This is a title given to Jesus in the Qur'an.

Which one's the easiest to twist around to mean something vulgar, vile, or generally threatening?


Not Kyrios; INRI sounds like its trying too hard and not really saying anything; Kalima means nothing in context either. Divi Filius might work in that it's a little more generic in some way, but says something more specific in allusion. Remember: last thing you want to do with a religious allusion is throw it in for the shock value. That usually just backfires. So I'd suggest that one. Leave it just as it is. Lavos styles himself god after all.

Quote from: Hadriel

Also, there are some options for the names of the four demons.  There exists Samael, an Angel of Death sometimes identified with Satan, or Asmodeus, another bad dude.  Keeping in mind that war and death are different things, Alastor is another usable name.  Astaroth still hasn't been used, and there are a bunch of other names of angels who by human standards would toe the line or even cross it due to their jobs, Azrael (Izrail in the original Islamic text) being one.

I have no classes today, so I'm going to put this stuff on a floppy and send it at the library.


Alastor is an avenging spirit in Greek myth. If you want some other names of demonic things, there is Apollyon from Revelation, which is translated as 'destroyer', but is more of a combinations between a root for destruction and 'apo', which denotes 'away from'... so it seems rather viciously destructive. However... here's my suggestion. Take each one from a different tradtion. You've already got a Greek one: Alastor, who is an Avenger. You could then take Izrail (do take the original) from Islam, and that one is one more like death. Look to the Hindu stories - they have many demons in theirs - and you'll easily find a third. And for one wholly different from those... Surtur. That's the Norse demon of fire who finally leaves his home of Muspelheim at the day of Ragnarok. Odin, seeing a vision of that last battle, sees at the end of it Surtur spread his fire over the whole world, and all things perish. So that's one suggestion of the Four: Alastor, Izrail, Surtur, and a Hindu one. I have another idea, though.

Why not keep the original? Who, after all, knows what the original of those four horsemen are? Let's see... well, the first is a rider on a white horse, with a bow and crown and going to conquer. The name I can think of might be the adjective for 'white', and that's 'Leukos'. The second... well, I think he's connected with war; he's on a red horse. I suppose the word for war would be best. And that's Arês. The next... he's famine. Limos. Hmmm... alright, these don't sound that good. Scratch this idea. But consider the other.

Anyway... still no thought on my idea for that line?

ZeaLitY

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #620 on: January 21, 2006, 10:53:38 pm »
Damn, now that is a plot. It has my blood boiling. I'm glad to have started in motion something like this.

I'm not going to make any changes or anything; I'm away from that. But I willl read through it and point anything out that could be improved, I suppose.

Mystik3eb

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #621 on: January 22, 2006, 07:43:02 am »
I'm all for either Kyrios or Kalima. Those both sound potentially fighteningly twist-able.

The names you chose for the four guardians work. I just find it funny that two of them are Forsaken in Wheel of Time.

Janus Zeal

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« Reply #622 on: January 22, 2006, 12:55:00 pm »
Fantastic plot Hadriel. I honestly cannot wait to see this dream realised.

Janus Zeal

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #623 on: January 22, 2006, 02:21:47 pm »
Hey, just a thought: Is it possible to rip songs out of other SNES Roms and put them into CE? I was just playing through Seiken Densetsu 3 again, and the song "Political Pressure" (Glass Desert area) would fit perfectly for Crono's nightmare, where the world has been transformed to fit Lavos' image. Also, the song "Three of Darkside" would fit a ruined world pretty well.

Chrono'99

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #624 on: January 22, 2006, 03:26:00 pm »
Quote from: Daniel Krispin
About the whole Ayla-Glenn-Frog-Schala thing... I'm still more for Glenn replacing Ayla, rather than Schala. A very short picture would just look contrived and odd - though she might in truth be short, the sprite in the original didn't appear so, so to shrink it makes it look like a cut corner. About Ayla's running sprite being smaller... well, can one not then make Glenn in a similar fashion, hunched over at least. He was a frog for so very long, there's probably some of that left in him. I don't know... as neat as Schala would be, I've still heavily on the Glenn side. Personally, I think the best solution, if both are no implementable, is to poll all those involved in the project, and see what the general concensus is.

Someone (JLukas?) proposed that if the ROM isn't big enough to hold all the game, we could just make 2 ROM hacks and play the 2 parts with the same .srm file. My idea is that if we can't decide whether to make Glenn or Schala playable, maybe we could make Glenn playable in one of the ROM, and Schala playable in the other... if we use 2 ROMs that is.

ZeaLitY

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #625 on: January 22, 2006, 03:28:28 pm »
Quote from: Janus Zeal
Hey, just a thought: Is it possible to rip songs out of other SNES Roms and put them into CE? I was just playing through Seiken Densetsu 3 again, and the song "Political Pressure" (Glass Desert area) would fit perfectly for Crono's nightmare, where the world has been transformed to fit Lavos' image. Also, the song "Three of Darkside" would fit a ruined world pretty well.


Yes, but no one around the Compendium except the actual rom hackers are capable of it at the moment. It should be a relatively simple process, but does require some knowledge to pull off. Geiger has a patch that has FF6's Veldt theme replacing "Memories of Green." CT's instruments, of course.

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #626 on: January 22, 2006, 09:33:48 pm »
There are a bunch of different themes I'd like to import, for varying purposes.  Radical Dreamers would be the obvious choice, since Chrono Cross used several pieces lifted directly from RD.  The Final Fantasy games would be the next choice, Dancing Mad, Decisive Battle, and the various iterations of Terra's theme foremost among possible imports.  I kind of wish we could import music from the PlayStation FFs, since they're MIDI as well.

Most imported music wouldn't be used in the main storyline, instead being relegated to optional sequences such as the endings and developer fights, if we get around to it.  If we do get to do a developer fight sequence, distinctive battle music would be in order for all of the combatants, likely running the gamut of the music available on the SNES.  Of course, we'd run into even more copyright issues by using music or sprites from non-Square games.

Janus Zeal

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« Reply #627 on: January 22, 2006, 10:56:47 pm »
Well, give these a listen if you're interested:

http://rapidshare.de/files/11619827/09_-_Political_Pressure.mp3.html

http://rapidshare.de/files/11619884/17_-_Three_of_Darkside.mp3.html

I really think these would go well with Crono's nightmare of a world ruled by Lavos. If you already have something else in mind, no problem.

I have the rest of the Seiken Densestsu 3 soundtrack as well if needed.

Hadriel

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #628 on: January 22, 2006, 11:54:27 pm »
So, all we need now are the ending specifics and a Mystic Knights sidequest.  Anyone have any ideas?

Then, of course, we need to set down a defined list of equipment, enemy, and boss names and properties.  Fortunately, we've already got at least a bit on that.

Janus Zeal

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #629 on: January 23, 2006, 01:02:47 am »
Ending specifics - After Crono and Marle sacrifice themselves to defeat Geddon, the game should try and end on a happier note. I know, CM are dead, Schala is gone (again), there isn't too much for the player to be happy about.

I don't know, maybe it's just a childish desire to wish for a happy ending, but I'd like the game to end with a hope for the future, it is what Crono and Marle gave their lives for.