Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development  (Read 60883 times)

Oswego del Fuego

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #510 on: August 16, 2005, 05:37:50 pm »
While "The Dream that Time Dreams" may be the most accurate translation, "The Dream that Dreams Dream" is simply too cool to pass up.  If it's not too long (probably is), it would make a great end-of-the-game title chapter, ala "The Fated Hour" or "For All Dreamers."

OdF

ZeaLitY

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #511 on: August 16, 2005, 05:52:43 pm »
Yeah, it's pretty transcendent. The dream that dreams dream...

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #512 on: August 16, 2005, 06:41:41 pm »
'The Dream that Dreams Dream' just sounds wrong, however. There is no finesse in the title. Thrice used in a single line... that is overmuch, overwrought, and confusing. I maintain that of all three, Time of the Dreamwatch, inaccurate though it may be, is far best of them all.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #513 on: August 16, 2005, 06:55:22 pm »
But what is a dreamwatch? (and how can a Dreamwatch of Time be a Time of the Dreamwatch?)

Oswego del Fuego

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #514 on: August 16, 2005, 07:06:45 pm »
Ah, have to disagree with Daniel.  I don't like the sound of "dreamwatch," the word.

Glad this isn't my decision.  :P

OdF

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #515 on: August 23, 2005, 06:26:27 pm »
I was just thinking... the Three Vanguards, Renault, Roget, and Luther... it seems to me that this group is an embodiment of misguided zeal. Now, in that regard, should the names maybe reflect this? Renault sounds apt in that way, as it is either that name or one similar that was borne by a very vicious Crusader in the second crusade (remember Kingdom of Heaven, anyone? The red-haired lord who helps Guy.) A knight gone wrong, sort of. The other two, however... You say that Luther is the PR man. Well, Luther in history was certainly zealous, but was not militaristic or condoning of violence (he quite denounced the peasant's rebellion.) I was thinking maybe people closer to Savonarola or Ignatious (if those are spelled aright) - founder of the Jesuits. As far as the other goes... is there some extremely zealous person in history you can find for his name?

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #516 on: August 23, 2005, 07:50:57 pm »
Well, perhaps further plot knowledge will assist. I'm sure you've already read this, but I'll summarize:

Renault is the ever zealous military commander, with an excellent sense of right, wrong, and moral code. However, since war has not been a fact for centuries, his actual power is restrained and his involvement small. His post mainly is responsible for keeping the physical arm of the Vanguard fit, and little else nowadays; since Luther and Pierre hold more real world power, Renault is somewhat of a pawn, who controlled, can influence the soldiers. However, this is not implying he's stupid; he's simply in a position of reduced power and the work of his men is currently at the disposal of Luther or Pierre. His conflict will chiefly be with Luther. When Luther creates a catastrophe just to justify retrieving the Masamune, Renault's going to try and fight him.

Luther is the PR guy, but is a bit of a serpent. He has little care for the Vanguard's actual image, as long as the soldiers are under his thumb. A vain person, he mainly enjoys soaking up the image, appearing at the castle and carrying out projects for mostly his own personal gain. While he holds little regard for the ideals of the Vanguard, and could care less about who this "Glenn" or something guy is, but he is particularly interested in the supposed treasures lying underneath the building. He's especially curious about the Masamune, as he'd love to share in its luster by owning it one day. In his dealings with others, he shows a certain degree of tact, but it erodes arithmetically with the duration of the conversation. He hates being derided intellectually by Pierre, and seeks to avoid him whenever possible. Likewise, he pokes fun at Renault often, simply because Renault's good standing allows him to take the abuse and dismiss Luther. Eventually, Luther will create a catastrophe conspiring with Porre to retrieve the Masamune.

Pierre is the brains of the outfit; a longtime examiner of history, the arts, and other worldly subjects, he brings positive practicality to the table (though his love of books has sapped his taste for action). Born with a quick mind, he's able to turn a pithy phrase in arguments or retorts and manage to defeat his opponents in debate (and anger them as well). Regardless, his experience and knowledge has given him a full belief in the ideals of the Vanguard, especially in the past few years, as he sports a particular distate for Porre's rude insurgencies. While he recognizes that Porre can be controlled, given half the chance (and some disorienting drink), he'd gladly orchestrate a chain of events to humble the nation into recognizing its parent kingdom publicly (not militarily).

Pierre recognizes that Porre's main beef is that the Kingdom of Guardia is tying up the world's wealth in a defunct, stolid, and stagnant organization, and that splitting the kingdom and its dated laws would provide several nations with the freedom to mobilize their own research, social structures, and advancement. Pierre might have subscribed to this belief had he not had utmost confidence in the Kingdom of Guardia, doubly reinforced by Crono's introduction to the royal family. Pierre believes the sort of enlightened despotism of a single kingdom and ruling body acts as a catalyst to human advancement, provided the rulers are in good form and some kind of council exists to check one another. He also knows that fragmenting Guardia at this point in scientific research and fomentation would set the world back several years, despite the freedom, and holds that social evolution will take place regardless of whether Guardia splits or not in the future.

Pierre will offer the party advice and try to keep them in line, and will also offer the important plot above.

Can we think of better names given that information?

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #517 on: August 23, 2005, 11:46:09 pm »
Interesting...
Well, like I said, Reynault seemed, and indeed still does, a very good choice. It fits the feel, and has a little bit of allusion in it.
As far as the other two...

Luther... sounds actually somewhat like Goring or some other Nazi. But that's too well known a name. Maybe its just that Luther has a positive connotation for me, which makes it sound odd. Do what you will. I'd recommend finding another one, but as far as sound and look of the name (yes, there is such a thing as the 'look' of a name, and sometimes words much be chosen as much for their look on the page as their meaning. No, I'm not crazy.) I honestly can't think of anyone at the moment who historically was like that. We would need an advisor acting for some regend who cared more for his own glory than for the kingdom. I know there must be many like that in history, but no name comes to mind. Suggestions, anyone?

As for the last... I will again claim at least a temporary fail of memory. Pierre, if no others of allusive quality are found will, as Luther, work fine I think as a Scholar's name.

By the way, so everyone knows: I'll be gone in Chicago for a week or so. So I haven't just up and left.

Janus Zeal

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« Reply #518 on: August 31, 2005, 06:30:07 pm »
I agree with Daniel. While I personally like the name Luther, there is something about it that seems too pure. Perhaps "Lucius" would be better suited for the character?

After all, the name bares close resemblance to Lucifer, who was "a bit of a serpent." As well, (hate to bring this up) but Lucius Malfoy of Harry Potter fame, a man who hid behing his good name, all the while having a more sinister agenda.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #519 on: August 31, 2005, 06:57:03 pm »
If we don't find an "awesome" name, I propose that we just choose a punny name or a stupid name based on a condiment. This is a Chrono game so it's pretty much mandatory even if it's stupid (Doreen, Ozzie/Vinegar, Solt, Peppor, etc.).

teh Schala

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« Reply #520 on: August 31, 2005, 08:24:46 pm »
What was Doreen based on? o.O

Exodus

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« Reply #521 on: August 31, 2005, 08:27:52 pm »
The Japanese translation is "Dream".

Hence, in CC, the name for the Mastermune would be GrandDream.

Hadriel

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« Reply #522 on: August 31, 2005, 08:58:40 pm »
Heh, Lucius is hardcore.  We should use it somewhere.

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #523 on: September 02, 2005, 06:15:20 pm »
Quote from: Janus Zeal
After all, the name bares close resemblance to Lucifer, who was "a bit of a serpent." As well, (hate to bring this up) but Lucius Malfoy of Harry Potter fame, a man who hid behing his good name, all the while having a more sinister agenda.


I'm only guessing, but I think that it is a similar name. Lucifer means light-bearer, so maybe Lucius means 'bright' or something like that. Only a guess, though. I think there is someone on these forums that knows Latin that could tell you for certain.

Since I'm back, perhaps I'll give some thought - or rather research through a history book - for some apt names for these two.

Oh, and about the demo... ZeaLitY was mentioning on the other thread where he bowed out of being project leader that the pacing of the beginning segments strikes him as ill-paced and amateurish. I'm speaking in reference to this on this thread, though, as it ties into the game itself rather than that topic. Pacing... I think this is largely due to the fact that there are no mandatory battles within this whole prologue, as it were - nor even much in the way of optional ones. Even Chrono Trigger, before coming to the fair, allowed you to battle creatures in Guardia forest. I think, maybe, it would be apt to make the journey through the woods of south Zenan to be non-overworld, and rather like the woods of Guardia. It would slow down the running about, at any rate, and allow for some initial experience gathering. Perhaps a boss could even appear in this area, though I think that would be a little early - actually fighting the Porrean assassin in Guardia castle, before he flees, may make for a better grand combat.
As another pacing suggestion... why not make the letter an optional thing that gives you an item or something, and only make the pie and sword a required thing. Actually, it seems rather odd that his mother should be in the possession of a sword, and be giving it to such a prince-hero as he is. If naught else, it should be one from display in his room. As such, though, I think that it would be best if he retrieves it from someone or another from Porre. No... on second thought, thought the letter should remain optional, the sword should be picked up from Melchior. It would require a visit to him, and would make a plausable place for a sword to be retrieved from. I think those would work together to pace it better.

Exodus

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« Reply #524 on: September 07, 2005, 11:44:27 am »
I've just made a place for players to level up a few days ago.

I liked your idea of using Fiona's Forest as a base, so that's what it consists of.

DDK is on the enemy event coding now.