Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development  (Read 62057 times)

ZeaLitY

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #90 on: April 20, 2005, 06:30:23 pm »
Well, the name is supposed to make it really foreboding. When they ask the villagers about the mountains across the horizon, he's supposed to say something to scare them, like "some ancient beast has claimed it as its domain."

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #91 on: April 21, 2005, 12:12:25 am »
Well, Tolkien has some interesting ways of saying things that, interestingly enough, aren't often used. If you were to speak of it as something from the 'old world', or even 'from an older world'. Say, perhaps, 'it is a thing of the older world, born long before the children of glorious Zeal rose to hold dominion over these lands; it is the haunter of the dark and waste places, and bows only to such villinous powers as held sway in the long ages of the past. Kalaknash, we name it, like the remorseless north-wind. Do not seek it out! It is most perilous to cross, and surpassing in strength of sinew and cunning sigaldry, or so the grey-bearded ones of my people say - some ill earned power rests within its heart given, perhaps, by the terrible one who walked the paths of the world in the lawless years. I beg you, lords, take heed to the words of a simple man, and do not follow that path, for surely but death awaits you. Take evening meal with us, and forget such a folly-ridden course... toils of pride bring one only to ruin, and the high hearted are cast down if they over-reach their might.'
Just a thought. My common form of dialogue - in other words, it was supposed to be one line, but I got carried away. I'm borrowing things left and right in that: sigaldry a word I've only seen used by Tolkien; high-hearted a word used to describe the father of Diomedes in the Iliad; etc. But I just tossed in Kalaknash, of my own invention, for the heck of it. And take that only as a very rough thing, as I am currently in more tired a state than I have every before been in my life, and most everything is half dream-like. I should think far better, and be able to measure the fashion of these thing better, if I were in full command of my mind.

Hadriel

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« Reply #92 on: April 21, 2005, 11:40:18 pm »
How about this instead for the dialogue:

"It is a beast of the ancient world, born long before Zeal laid claim to these lands.  Our people know it as (insert name here) the (insert destructive honorific here).  Death is all that it knows -- seek it out and it will impart this knowledge to you in throes of agony."

Just as ominous, half the wordage.

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2005, 10:41:01 pm »
Hmmm... perhaps you're right about the length, though one cannot shirk away from it if one is to attempt the epic voice. Epic is in origin poetry, and poetry neccessitates wordage.

Actually, the basic basis for that was, I think, in feel at least, the way in which Faramir speak of Cirith Ungol. It's been some years since I last read LOTR to actually remember quite what is said (I should go look that up), but the feel of it was in my mind when I wrote that, and it seemed a similar sort of thing. Let me look it up again... ah, here it is:
'Nothing certain,' said Faramir. 'We of Gondor do not ever pass east of the Road in these days, and none of us younger men has ever done so, nor has any of us set foot upon the Mountains of Shadow. Of them we know only old report and the rumour of bygone days. But there is some dark terror that dwells in the passes above Minas Morgul. If Cirith Ungol is named, old men and masters of lore will blanch and fall silent.'
As you no doubt already know, I look to LOTR in most of these matters, and the way terror of a certain place with an ill-gotten beast seemed to most nearly echo with this. Though, as I said, I was thinking only of feeling, and of very old memory.

Anyway, a few notes though on such a shorter segment. I think 'thing' contains more of an ominous sound than 'beast'. The latter implies it is some natural, or semi-natural, creature of great strength. The former speaks more of something wholly unknown. I would probably say: 'It is a thing of an older world, born in the age before the children of Zeal laid claim to these lands. What -who knows? - it is a thing of terror, fearful Zairato. Its love is in but death - surely, if you seek it out, your toil will only be vain-glorious.'

Shorter? I actually tended to use 'children of Zeal' to refer to the people of Zeal as a whole. Sounds better than Zealian or Zealot, and means essentially the same thing, as people are often referred to as children of their land, metaphorically speaking.

A suggestion, though, don't use too many of those honourifics. It works fine for your Cedric, but for anything evil... don't overdo whatever one is given it. Just give it a plain name, or instead of 'the' say 'of the' or leave it out completely... that's the epic way of saying it. In the Iliad you have 'Diomedes of the great war cry' or 'Odysseus, sacker of cities'. I like to leave them out, for the most part, as they remind me too much of common fantasy...

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2005, 07:09:36 pm »
I've got a plan now. After the plot's finished, we'll calculate all the new stuff we have to add, so that we can allocate it and ensure we have room for it.

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2005, 05:43:13 pm »
Sidequest idea: The Secret of Nu. Learn what Nu truly are, integrate the article.

Zaperking

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« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2005, 08:49:24 pm »
Tell me that it'll have the Nu's secret back scratching spot part in it :D

Thorn

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2005, 10:11:26 pm »
The Nu are...hmm...

The Nu are the physical embodiments of the entity, which in argument is the planet. While the entity slumbers, it views itself in its dreams...since the entity knows it is not anything unto itself physically, and cannot be a huge planet represented in the dream, it shapes itself into a Nu. This explains why all things begin and end with Nu, because Nu is the planet.

Therefore, the Nu is the entity 'seeing itself' in its dream.

Idea is good?

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2005, 11:12:28 pm »
Yeah, that's how I've viewed the Nu before as well. They're sort of four dimensional beings and the eyes and ears of the Entity, so to speak. The sidequest would be oddball and a relaxing diversion, with some tough as nails bosses.

I'm also rolling around the identity of the impossible optional boss for inclusion. I think every RPG needs one of those guys who's harder than the final boss, and must be beaten to sate curiosity.

I've also got the cameos figured out; Cyan will be the one who explains how the Coliseum works when it's implemented, while Edgar will explain the layout of Chronopolis to the party when they first visit it.

Hadriel

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« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2005, 11:31:08 pm »
That sounds like a good base.

I thought of some more ideas regarding the Dragon Tooth while I was on spring trip.  The Dragon Tooth would be reflective of the Dragon Tear and its progeny, the Chrono Cross, in its ability to interact with life forces.  In essence, it would be a Dragon Tear, at this point the previously-mentioned high holy artifact of the Reptites, perverted into a weapon of death by Lavos -- with its powers over life forces, it was easier for Lavos to determine how to take advantage of the planet, because he could use its power to hack into spiritual currents instead of relying solely on mathematics.  However, removing the Dragon Tear would not have stopped the Dragon Tooth from being made -- there's ostensibly more than one, since the Tear is made of material that serves as a physical anchor for the planet's consciousness and a balance for Dreamstone.  One reflects the waking universe, the superficialities of life as a planet, and the other expresses the hidden powers of dreams.  Taking the Tooth allows the heroes to determine severe shifts in life force at any point in Earth's history, and by proxy, use the Dragon Tooth's power with the Dispatch system to go there and investigate without having to violate Time Error to do so.

I was also thinking about having the dream/Epoch crash scenario occur after the first Zeal scenario.  Then a few more scenarios would be in order before the split.  Such a thing would give them the opportunity to discover the Dragon Tear's true form and how it was corrupted by Lavos, thus providing a viable answer to one of Cross's unanswered questions.  This could also possibly involve the Entity in some way -- we've questioned and violated everything else.

Oh, and I got some kickass pictures.  I'll probably post them in general discussion later.

Epic does have its origin in poetry, but a more modern epic is distinctly different from an ancient one.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure where that difference lies.  That may have something to do with the 5 1/2 hour bus ride back.  Help, please?

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2005, 12:51:43 am »
Quote from: Hadriel
Epic does have its origin in poetry, but a more modern epic is distinctly different from an ancient one.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure where that difference lies.  That may have something to do with the 5 1/2 hour bus ride back.  Help, please?

I'll check my old reliable source, the Oxford English Dictionary (the 600,000 word full version, that is, not the standard abridged one.)
Alright, it's a Greek word, meaning word, narrative, or song. But as for the usage:
A: Adjective
1.) Pertaining to that species of poetical composition (see Eros), represented typically by the Iliad and Odyssey, which celebrates in the form of a continuous narrative the achievements of one or more heroic personages of history or tradition.
2.)Such as is described in epic poetry
B: sb.
1.)An epic poet (obsolete)
2.)An epic poem
b.)transf. A composition comparable to an epic poem.
3.) fig. A story or series of events, worthy to form the subject of an epic.

Though apparently 'transf.' means 'transferred sense' and 'fig.' figurative. sb., apparently, signifies a noun, as opposed to the first two which are adjectival in sense.
So, I suppose, the modern sense would fit in the sections B.b.) and B.3.), but me... I would still be wary of putting even Lord of the Rings in the place of true 'epic'. The Lay of Leithian, sure: it's a long poem that details the exploits of a great hero, but Lord of the Rings is a little more iffy. A point I'd exempted from the above quote was another defenition of 'epic dialect', which is the dialect of Greek used in the composition of the Iliad and Odyssey. It was to that I was more speaking when I made my comments, that 'epic' seems to have a certain style and dialect of language apart from the vulgar, and for that reason anything written with colloquial dialogue is greatly up for question in the realm of 'epic'. By sheer scale, and the semi-poetic style concerning the exploits of heroes, things like Lord of the Rings just might, perhaps, be on the fringe. But once you begin changing the language too much, you've lost one of the defining features of epic.
Personally, I'd say that to me, what defines an epic is heroics, scale, and the form of the speech. Anyone notice why Brad Pitt's acting (or Agamemnon's, for that matter) seemed so odd in context? It was more colloquial than should have been. It would be improbably in this age, of course, to make something fully old-style in speech and all, so I suppose some concessions need be made. That allowed for, we can have things like Gladiator being epics, to some extent. They follow a hero (often a tragic hero), concern themselves with matters on a grand scale, and have dialogue that is more speech like, at times. It may be just me, but I think that 'epic' is a term far overused these days... much like 'Elves' has been bastardized in the last fifty years.

Hadriel

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« Reply #101 on: April 25, 2005, 01:02:19 am »
I'll drink to that.  Or I would if I was 21.

*throws back some ginger ale*

That was another thing I was concerned with -- how many vulgarities should be used in the speech?  Cross had a few cursewords, but Trigger didn't have any.  I'm not saying that Magus should call everyone a big floppy donkey dick at every opportunity -- that would definitely run contrary to the type of story we're trying to create.  If somebody's going to curse, they should do it in style, like Gandalf using the language of Mordor in the middle of Rivendell or chanting some demonic spell (perhaps we could draw from the Radical Dreamers flower scenario for this) -- none of this Dragon Ball Z bullshit where you yell out the attack name before you throw it.  Seriously, what the HELL is that?

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development
« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2005, 03:50:31 am »
21? Ah, yes. Well, I'm 21, but legal here is actually 18. Not to say I've really been drunk all that often. About... half a dozen times, of which a week back from last Friday was certainly worst. Anyway...
Well, there are old styles of cursing, as well. You could say simply 'curses', or, in a harsher but less colloquial way, 'may I be dealt with ever so severely if ...'. That's an old curse formula from the Bible. To me Janus always has that ancient streak of nobility, prideful though it may be. As far as curse words go, especially on Janus' part, I don't think the occassional 'damn' or 'dammit' is going to sound out of place. In fact, I wager he'd speak like that a lot, damning this and that under his breath, calling people damned fools and the like. 'Fool' is a word I imagine Janus would be very fond of, actually.

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2005, 04:10:36 am »
I believe he calls Crono a roach on the North Cape in the Japanese version, which is an extreme sign of disrespect. It's equivocating someone with cockroaches, and every bad connotation thereof.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #104 on: April 25, 2005, 06:53:18 am »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
I've also got the cameos figured out; Cyan will be the one who explains how the Coliseum works when it's implemented, while Edgar will explain the layout of Chronopolis to the party when they first visit it.

I like Cyan and Edgar, but IMHO cameos from Xenogears might be more appropriate. Lucca already made a cameo appearance in Xenogears explaining how the save points work.

It could be nice if Maria was the person who makes the party visits Chronopolis (Maria was Balthasar's granddaughter from Shevat). Ricardo (a Demi-Human) could hang around in the Coliseum since he used to frequent one in Nortune (or some city I forgot the name).