Author Topic: One more Demi-human's origin theory  (Read 2681 times)

Nickolz

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One more Demi-human's origin theory
« on: April 18, 2008, 06:45:41 pm »
I got into a hard dilemma while deciding wheter to post it either in "Characters, Plot and Themes" or "History, Locations and Artifacts" forum, but I finally made up my mind. I'm just hoping there's no trouble.

Well, yes, I got a theory about Demi-humans' origin. Yes, I've made a small search in the forums, read three or four threads and found nothing similar to this. Actually, everybody keeps talking about Dragonians and humans and Mystics in some kind of bizarre orgy and...  ew! Not that I have anything against interracial relationships, but... argh!

Back to the point, I felt so confused and excited (like "OMG!IGOTATHEORY!OMG!") when I saw nobody speaking about it, because it seems almost simple and quite logic to me. I read only 3 or 4 topics, but I think it was enough to guess that no or few people must have spoken about something like that.

So, for a start, forget about Mystics and Dragonians. They are, by now, irrelevant. This theory implies that there's only one being responsible for the existence of all Demi-humans. The most valuable treasure, perceived by so many, yet reached by so few. The legendary relic known as both divine and monstrous. The one being that once sought to engulf the world! The evil progeny of Lavos! YES! THE FROZEN FLAME! MWAHUAHUAHUAHUAHUA

Didn't get it? Ok, follow my thought. Remember how and why Wazuki turned into Lynx, a human torn into a Demi-human.

He got inside Chronopolis when it was totally deactivated, due to Schala's storm. Since the facility had no energy, there were no barriers to refrain the Flame's power. Thus, when the fisherman got closer to the jewel, his body and mind suffered great changes (the changes weren't instantaneous, but that's irrelevant). His body changed into a shape of important meaning to him, a feline, due to the recent event involving the panther-demon. Presumably, some kind of radiation originated from the Flame caused such transformation.

The contact with the Flame also affected his mind's integrity, permitting FATE to gain its control afterwards. But that fact is also irrelevant to the theory.

Alright, so the Frozen Flame, when capable of using its unique habilities, can transform humans in humanoid animal shapes for which the transformed human has some strong sentiment. Keep that in mind!

My theory implies that the first Demi-humans were all originally humans, residents of Chronopolis affected by the Frozen Flame during the Time Crash.

As some random ghost in Chronopolis says, they would be releasing "the Flame's lock level to D" to study the counter-time effect or something. That experiment most probably caused the Time Crash. Lowering the Flame's lock level (which I understand as force fields or some kind of refraining system) let the jewel not only contact Lavos and move Chronopolis towards the past, but also liberate its strange mutating radiation over some unfortunate Chronopolitans. Or, maybe, releasing the lock level let the Flame liberate enough power to completely shut the whole Chronopolis down. With nothing impeding the rock's might, the consequences were the same as above.

No matter how long it took, the affected people transformed into new shapes which had some important meaning to them. Perhaps a young time traveling trainee girl had always loved fishes as pets and, thus, became a mermaid. Or some renowned physicist had this terrifying experience with pidgeons when he was a child and became a moaman. And the same happened to all the other affected ones.

After the Polis War and the creation of the archipelago, FATE erased the memories of all Chronopolitans (that includes the transformed ones) and sent them all to live among the surviving Dragonians. They must have received the name of "Demi-human" either before or after their minds got erased, but that doesn't seem to be a real matter. Although, we might have the exact explanation for that name if it was conceived before the erasure. The Chronopolitans would still be completely aware of those humanoids' origin, being them "almost human" or "not actual humans" anymore.

The lore of El Nido also keeps a few interesting information which might support this theory.

"Be very careful when
you stare into the flame...

For the flame will also
stare back at you...

It will either transform you
into a different being...

Or burn you into ashes."


"Transform you into a different being", it says. Since Wazuki was in fact transformed into a completely different being, that line might pretty well refer to previous transformations the spiky red relic caused centuries in the past.

In the end, Demi-humans would have nothing to do with Dragonians or Mystics, being just the products of an accident involving time traveling experiments and a sentient being whose existence goes beyond human capability of understanding the universe as it is (aka Frozen Flame).

All in all, I believe I have here quite a consistent, simple, logic and respectable theory. So, please, reply pointing all those inconsistent, illogic and disrespectable aspects so I can realize (not to say remember) how ignorant, despicable and humiliatable I am.

Thanks for the attention and for the patience while reading all this (or for just scroolling down to see the bottom of my post =D).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 06:53:58 pm by Nickolz »

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2008, 07:50:50 pm »
So are you saying that the Mystics of Chrono Trigger are completely unrelated?  That only the Demi-Humans of Chrono Cross are the product of the Frozen Flame?

Nickolz

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2008, 08:14:53 pm »
Er, I don't know if I misunderstood your post, but... Mystics are obviously related among themselves, but have nothing to do with Demi-humans.

And the Demi-humans of Chrono Cross are products of the Frozen Flame only.

That was what I meant.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 08:28:14 pm by Nickolz »

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 09:23:11 pm »
Okay, sorry my post was confusing.  You answered me correctly.  :D

My only complaint is that it seems odd that Wakuzi just happened to turn into a feline Demi-Human.  After all, it was a panther demon that attacked Serge, and Serge was thus deathly afraid of the bugger's.

Either way, I actually think this theory shows a lot of merit.

MagilsugaM

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2008, 06:57:51 pm »
It was so obvious that we didn't see it.
So it means that the first humans that arrived at el nido were turned into demihumans by the Frozen Flame?

Chrono'99

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2008, 04:39:23 pm »
Very interesting and plausible theory. I'm surprised there aren't more replies.

Boo the Gentleman Caller, what do you mean by "the Demi-Humans of Chrono Cross"? There weren't any Demi-Human in Chrono Trigger.

FaustWolf

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2008, 05:50:20 pm »
Boo may have had the same thoughts I did, that the demihumans were Mystics that had wandered into El Nido. However, upon reading your thread about Sprigg being a Mystic, I now realize that there is solid canonical evidence for saying that Mystics and demihumans are totally separate -- but that Sprigg is an old-fashioned Mystic.

In that case, I'm more inclined to hop on board with Nickolz' theory. However, the fact that Wazuki's transformation didn't occur until four years after exposure to the Frozen Flame still bothers me. Seems like FATE was responsible for the change directly and not the Flame. Unless the Flame merely destabilizes the victim's genetic code and FATE was able to take advantage of that.

Given that FATE wiped the memories of Wazuki and the Chronopolitans alike, is it possible that exposure to the Frozen Flame and FATE's intervention are both needed for the transformations?

EDIT: I suppose some evidence as to whether the demihumans' origin came before or after FATE did the Chronopolitan memory wipe would solve the question in my mind, at least.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 05:53:22 pm by FaustWolf »

Thought

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 10:42:21 am »
Well this does relate to how the Frozen Flame and Lavos influenced human evolution. In Chrono Cross, the human tendency to destroy and to be at odds with nature is linked to Lavos' roll in the development of humans (via the Frozen Flame). It is odd, then, that the first time around, the Frozen Flame made apes into humans and they became at odds with nature, but the second time around, the Frozen Flame made demi-humans out of humans and they became more at peace with nature.

Indeed, it is the Demi-Human alignment with the Dragonians and the planet that makes me doubt this theory the most. If the Demi-Humans had the taint of Lavos, why would the dragonians have entrusted them with the Dragon's Tear?

A close second is the described effect that the Frozen Flame had on humans in the first place. It accelerated evolution, but that still requires many generations. Wazuki didn't "evolve" into Lynx, he transformed into it. Why did the Frozen Flame react differently in these situations? To put forward a counterpoint, Lynx may have had a more intense exposure over a shorter period of time. Additionally, what was FATE's role in Lynx' transformation then? The game presents the matter as FATE having the primarily control over the transformation, not the Frozen Flame (which at the time it didn't have access too).

Actually, if we look at the game script:

Quote from: Crono
   I don't know how to break
   this to you, but...
   Lynx was actually your
   father, Wazuki!
   Drawing closer to the Flame
   caused him to become unstable,
   and the image of you dying in
   terror changed him completely!
   Finally, after having his
   psyche totally eroded,
   he lost his soul and was
   easily integrated by FATE...
   FATE turned Wazuki into a
   biological interface, modelling
   him after your worst fear at
   the time -- a panther.

[...]

   Perhaps even FATE itself
   dreamed of using the Flame
   to some day reincarnate
   itself into a new species.
   It is quite sad, really...
   It's like when you gaze
   into the Flame, the Flame
   gazes back into you.

It seems fairly clear that it was FATE, not the Frozen Flame, that made Wazuki into Lynx.

I included the second section in quote because it tells us something of FATE's capabilities and intentions. The Frozen Flame corrupted Lynx, there is no doubt there, but it was FATE that used that corrupted husk as an avatar. FATE was able to transform Wazuki into a demi-human, and it may have wanted to reincarnate itself into a new species. The Demi-Humans might have been experiments that FATE was conducting in an attempt to create a biological interface for its reincarnation.

Anywho, just a thought.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 10:59:09 am »
I think this theory shows some major merit, but I'm not ready to be backing it up just yet.  I was just thinking, seeing as how FATE turned an ordinary man (Wazuki) into a functioning demi-Human (Lynx), could it be possible that both the Frozen Flame and FATE turned some of the Chronopolis scientists into demi-Humans?  Would there be any reason to do so?

I had, up until recently, assumed that both demi-Humans and Mystics were the same thing.  I wrote off the many differences between the two peoples by saying, "well, it's Chrono Cross; after all, they did change the magic alignment to a certain confusing degree (among other things), so they must've took creative liberties with the non-Human species as well..."

Of course now I'm realizing and believing that the Mystics and demi-Humans are, in fact, separate species all together.  Plus, we have at least one Mystic in the Chrono Cross storyline: Sprigg!

Nickolz

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2008, 02:52:25 pm »
Thank you for all the corrections and observations. I had realized my mistake about the main responsible for the transformations being the FF, instead of FATE, and wanted to correct the theory, but I kept postponing it (for, like, 3 months x_x). But I just loved the way the thread evolved.

So, summarizing, FATE might have used some opportunity in which the FF's power was liberated (Time Crash? During the Polis War? No answer for that, I guess) to transform some Chronopolitans into Demi-humans. However, she wouldn't have many strong reasons (just a few possible ones) for that. Not a perfect theory, indeed, but still a theory.

Well this does relate to how the Frozen Flame and Lavos influenced human evolution. In Chrono Cross, the human tendency to destroy and to be at odds with nature is linked to Lavos' roll in the development of humans (via the Frozen Flame). It is odd, then, that the first time around, the Frozen Flame made apes into humans and they became at odds with nature, but the second time around, the Frozen Flame made demi-humans out of humans and they became more at peace with nature.

Indeed, it is the Demi-Human alignment with the Dragonians and the planet that makes me doubt this theory the most. If the Demi-Humans had the taint of Lavos, why would the dragonians have entrusted them with the Dragon's Tear?

I believe these Thought's thoughts (lol?) are mostly based on my first affirmation that the FF was the only responsible for the transformation, which was wrong. And yeah, it does seem odd that the Dragonians would entrust the Dragon's Tear to the offsprings of Lavos but... it's canon. They did leave the Dragon's Tear with humans, before their extinction. Isn't that what Steena says? I don't know how, but the Dragonians learned to live happily and peacefully not only with Demi-humans, but also with humans themselves.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 04:19:46 pm by Nickolz »

Thought

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Re: One more Demi-human's origin theory
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2008, 02:16:00 pm »
And yeah, it does seem odd that the Dragonians would entrust the Dragon's Tear to the offsprings of Lavos but... it's canon. They did leave the Dragon's Tear with humans, before their extinction. Isn't that what Steena says? I don't know how, but the Dragonians learned to live happily and peacefully not only with Demi-humans, but also with humans themselves.

Maybe. Direa (not Steena) states that the Dragon Tear was given to their ancestors by the Dragonians, but the question is of course, which ancestors. Before Mainland Humans entered El Nido, Demi-Humans were more prevelant on both the main island and others, including Guldove. Thus, the question would be if the ancestors that the Tear and dragonian lore were Demi-Human or human. Humans are known to be the offspring of Lavos, Demi-Humans are undetermined, thus why such a question is relevant.

As we see from the Dragon Gods, the Dragonians did not learn to live as happuly and peacefully with humans as might at first appear. Which actually begs the question; why did they make peace with a mortal enemy?

If I recall correctly, there are some Records of Fate in Terra Tower. An odd place for such objects to be. An odd place, to be sure.