Author Topic: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction  (Read 20452 times)

killercactus

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Still have an issue with Flow Principle there, but it can be included in the discussion; thanks.

I suppose you're right.  Since time should be progressing differently in different time periods, Chronopolis existing simultaneously in all of them could cause a paradox.  I'm assuming my pull-back theory holds true too, which hasn't been proven.   That would circumvent the issue.

utunnels

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2009, 07:45:24 am »
For a long time, I used to think that Serge's survival was the reason why the world was divided into two.
But it seems that is not metioned in game(or I didn't see)?



killercactus

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2009, 09:54:01 am »
I believe Belthasar mentions that Kid's saving of Serge causes the dimensional split, but it's been a really long time since I played Cross.  The question then becomes why did it split dimensions vs. just create a new timeline.  The only explanation I could come up with is Arbiter status, but that conversation has already been hashed and rehashed. 

However, I've been thinking lately it might be possible that Serge's Arbiter status didn't cause the dimensional split, it just allows him to travel between them.  Maybe everytime a time travel event takes place there is a dimensional split, just no one has been able to travel between them until now.

utunnels

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2009, 10:02:41 am »
From what I read, perhaps the 2 worlds have been there for a long time, but FATE lost full control of HOME WORLD since 10 years ago.

Quote from: Lucca
   As Schala fell through the
   time gate in this condition,
   she heard your crying
   echoing through time...
   That is when her story and
   yours began to intertwine...
   It is also when the past and
   the future began to intersect,
   and when the world became
   divided into two...

Quote from: Chronopolis Ghost
   And for over 10,000 years,
   FATE has been watching over and
   guiding the descendants of the
   staff who left this research center.
   Everything was in pefect harmony.
   That is, until 14 years ago,
   when a boy came into contact with
   the Flame on the night of the storm.

Quote from: Chronopolis Ghost
   This is the observation room.
   This is where we observe
   the 2 parallel worlds.

Quote from: Chronopolis Computer
   Two worlds that are so close,
   and yet so far in nature, exist
   in different dimensions.
   Under the surveillance of the
   main computer of Chronopolis...
   '"FATE."'
   In other words, FATE, has
   always been observing the 2
   parallel worlds, and guiding them.

   FATE has been manipulating the
   world of El Nido, in order to
   avoid any major change to the
   history it knows.
   If an event on El Nido
   influences the main continent,
   the year 2400, in which FATE
   exists, would change.
   This paradox could potentially
   lead to great disaster...

   An instruction to the young girl
   in Arni 01 to give up going to
   the main continent as a poet.
   An instruction to the man in
   Arni 02 to give up becoming
   a fisherman.
   A plan to avoid any point of
   contact with the main continent,
   so as not to affect history.

   However...
   Ever since the formation of
   the Dead Sea 10 years ago...
   FATE has been unable to intervene
   directly with World 01.
   The best FATE could do was cross
   the dimension and receive data
   through the Records of Fate.
   And with much difficulty, FATE
   succeeded in binding Miguel
   to the Dead Sea as a watchman...




« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 10:08:14 am by utunnels »

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2009, 10:11:13 am »
I don't get that part. Why would FATE care about what happens in the Home World?

utunnels

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2009, 10:20:59 am »
Cross Cross's creation needs the 2 parallel worlds.
Or perhaps that's what the instruction given to FATE, as part of Project Kid.

As I said in previous page, Chronopolis is a linkage between these 2 worlds, sort of.

Quote

Belthasar:
   The Dragon Gods were originally
   a singular plasma life-form...
   ...A living accumulation of the
   planet's energy!
   Originally it was a biological
   machine used to control the
   powers of nature in the future
   society of the Reptites.
   In order to control the natural
   energy itself, FATE divided the
   one Dragon God entity up into
   6 weaker plasma life-forms...
   Then scattered them across
   the land and sealed them away.
   Their dragon-like appearances
   are just pseudo-guises...
   ...Temporary forms they take
   so that they can appear in
   this dimension.


   But all that changed when
   FATE was vanquished and its
   powerhold was eliminated!
   At that moment, the seven
   Dragons who had been
   rendered almost powerless
   and forgotten...
   traveled across the
   dimensions to reunite
   into a single entity!



It seems like the Chronopolis, the Dragons also have the ability to across dimensions.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 10:28:00 am by utunnels »

Thought

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2009, 11:08:45 am »
Quote from: Belthasar
   Serge... This world is not
   the world you grew up in.
   10 years ago, something
   happened that put your very
   soul teetering on the
   balancing scales of fate...
   with a fifty-fifty chance
   of life or death!
   This is when your future
   was split in twain.

That implies that the dimensional split was connected to Serge. By Kid saving him, the future changed and the dead sea was created. However, as you pointed out, those other quotes also implies that the dimensions must have split before the future was ruined for FATE to have been monitoring them. Yet at the same time, the AE is on Opassa beach where serge nearly drowned, IDing that as the weakpoint between the two dimensions.

It is all very confusing.

utunnels

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2009, 11:28:49 am »
Yeah, I knew Belthasar said that.
But perhaps that means Serge's survival resulted the destruction of the Home World.
He was not supposed to tell him too many truth at that time, perhaps.

ryu planeswalker

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2009, 12:48:13 pm »
Yeah Truth indeed, I just finished a play through of Crono Cross and I am really beginning to wonder exactly how much Truth Balthazar was really telling.

utunnels

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2009, 12:58:14 pm »
Yeah, the Ultimania says it was caused by the event that Kid saved Serge in 1010 A.D.
Although, the game script is really confusing.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 01:02:48 pm by utunnels »

Thought

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2009, 01:44:11 pm »
Serge does seem to be somehow responsible for the destruction of the future -- he's called the assassin of time even -- but the specifics are vague.

So it would seem that Serge both split the dimensions and, at a later date, caused the future of homeworld to be ruined.

killercactus

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2009, 03:16:13 pm »
From what I read, perhaps the 2 worlds have been there for a long time, but FATE lost full control of HOME WORLD since 10 years ago.


Quote from: Chronopolis Ghost
   And for over 10,000 years,
   FATE has been watching over and
   guiding the descendants of the
   staff who left this research center.
   Everything was in pefect harmony.
   That is, until 14 years ago,
   when a boy came into contact with
   the Flame on the night of the storm.

Quote from: Chronopolis Computer
 
   FATE has been manipulating the
   world of El Nido, in order to
   avoid any major change to the
   history it knows.
   If an event on El Nido
   influences the main continent,
   the year 2400, in which FATE
   exists, would change.
   This paradox could potentially
   lead to great disaster...

   An instruction to the young girl
   in Arni 01 to give up going to
   the main continent as a poet.
   An instruction to the man in
   Arni 02 to give up becoming
   a fisherman.
   A plan to avoid any point of
   contact with the main continent,
   so as not to affect history.

However...
   Ever since the formation of
   the Dead Sea 10 years ago...
   FATE has been unable to intervene
   directly with World 01.
   The best FATE could do was cross
   the dimension and receive data
   through the Records of Fate.
   And with much difficulty, FATE
   succeeded in binding Miguel
   to the Dead Sea as a watchman...


It's been a while since I read that quote from the Computer, and I find it very interesting when looked at with Lucca's quote above.  FATE is fine until Serge contacts the Flame.  That doesn't cause a problem because Wazuki is able to kill Serge six years later.  However, when Kid saves him, FATE loses contact with Home World.  It's interesting that FATE doesn't lose contact with either world when Serge touches the Flame, only after he is saved by Kid.  Why is this?

Maybe that was FATE's only chance at killing Serge.  We know that, in the future of Home World, FATE tries to kill Serge and fails.  So, after he is saved, Serge is sure to live out his life in Home World.  His Arbiter status locks FATE out of the Home World Flame, and it can no longer manipulate Home World.  Therefore, citizens from El Nido have contact with the Main Continent, and all hell breaks loose like the Computer says above.  Can it really be that simple?

utunnels

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2009, 03:33:39 pm »
But that leave a question: how could Lavos still destroy the world if it was defeated before CT event?
We know Serge became the Arbiter after CT event...

Perhaps Lavos pulled Chronopolis back to 12000 A.D. in order to change the history so it won't be defeated by Crono?

ryu planeswalker

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2009, 10:46:19 pm »
Don't Chrono and Crew have TTI though?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2009, 10:52:41 pm »
I have always wondered that. In what way does Chronopolis in the past would affect anything? I know they would want to explore it, but then FATE would do something to make them fight Lavos anyway.

Still, back in 1999 Crono and crew would still appear to defeat it. I think it was backfired plan, considering that thanks to that, we have someone able to defeat the Time Devourer.