Author Topic: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction  (Read 20450 times)

killercactus

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2009, 08:15:27 am »
I have always wondered that. In what way does Chronopolis in the past would affect anything? I know they would want to explore it, but then FATE would do something to make them fight Lavos anyway.


Exactly, but if FATE is locked out of the Frozen Flame because of Serge's survival in Home World, it can't intervene....

utunnels

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2009, 08:22:21 am »
It seems the new "Armageddon" happens in 2300 A.D. instead of 1999 A.D.
So what does that mean?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2009, 09:47:08 am »
I have always wondered that. In what way does Chronopolis in the past would affect anything? I know they would want to explore it, but then FATE would do something to make them fight Lavos anyway.


Exactly, but if FATE is locked out of the Frozen Flame because of Serge's survival in Home World, it can't intervene....

It still can, since none of Crono's travels sent him to any point between 1000 and 1999, so FATE is not locked out if Crono decided to pay a visit to Chronopolis.

killercactus

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2009, 10:21:36 am »
I have always wondered that. In what way does Chronopolis in the past would affect anything? I know they would want to explore it, but then FATE would do something to make them fight Lavos anyway.


Exactly, but if FATE is locked out of the Frozen Flame because of Serge's survival in Home World, it can't intervene....

It still can, since none of Crono's travels sent him to any point between 1000 and 1999, so FATE is not locked out if Crono decided to pay a visit to Chronopolis.

That depends on how you look at it.  If Chronopolis has temporal links with the future, Serge's survival could have effect on Chronopolis in the past, present and future.

I'd like to know exactly when the guy in Arni decides to become a fisherman.  I can't remember if he makes the decision after Serge is saved, or if he was already a fisherman in Home World.  If he decided to be a fisherman in Home World in say, 1008 AD, it would prove that Serge's survival (and thus FATE's lockout) could have an effect on past events.

As for 2300 AD - I'm not sure.  Where does it say that the apocolypse appears to happen in 2300?

utunnels

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2009, 10:26:55 am »
Not sure about that, maybe a report in the Dead Sea ruin:

Quote
[Monitor]
   2300 A.D.
   Lithosphere Investigation Report
   ~
   ~
   - Report no. 27 -
   ~
   [Unknown Life Force,
    Parasitic to the Planet]
   Geologic Stratum Result - 65,000,000 B.C.
   Code - '"Lavos"'

 [Monitor]
   Slumbering deep beneath the crust...
   When Lavos awakes, this planet will...


killercactus

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2009, 05:37:11 pm »
I thought that was supposed to be the recording that Crono & Co. saw in 2300 AD originally that sent them on a mission to save the world.  Maybe not though....

I'm more concerned about the fisherman and the poet now.  When did they make these decisions, and when did FATE intervene to stop them?  I think it's a big deal if FATE intervenes before 1010 AD.

EDIT:  Found it

Quote from: the fisherman

   I love my job, and I'm happy with
   my current lifestyle and all...
   but lately, I get to thinking
   when I see Kiki...
   About how I could've had
   a different future...
   If I had chosen a different
   path 10 years ago...
   Then I'd be living a
   completely different
   life than I am now.
   I'm not saying which one
   would've been better...
   But I just wonder where the
   other path may have led me...
   I guess the longer you live,
   the more you wonder about
   another '"you"' that
   might have been.

   Boy...
   Life sure is complex...

   OH! Hey, Serge,
   you want this?
   Here, take it.
   It's an amulet I made from
   a lion shark tooth 10 years
   ago, when I decided to
   become a fisherman!
   I don't need it anymore.
   I have my wife and Kiki
   watching over me.

To quote the great Jack Sparrow "Well that's just maddeningly unhelpful."
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 05:41:50 pm by killercactus »

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2009, 06:33:45 pm »
Quote
[Monitor]
   2300 A.D.
   Lithosphere Investigation Report
   ~
   ~
   - Report no. 27 -
   ~
   [Unknown Life Force,
    Parasitic to the Planet]
   Geologic Stratum Result - 65,000,000 B.C.
   Code - '"Lavos"'

 [Monitor]
   Slumbering deep beneath the crust...
   When Lavos awakes, this planet will...


There is a conflict there, the image shows Lavos destroying the world, yet the report says that Lavos has yet to rise.

To be made before that day, how did the image got in?

killercactus

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2009, 06:56:38 pm »
Blah - the poet girl just says she gave it up "ages ago", but that she had been dreaming about it since she was a little girl.  Either one of these FATE interventions could've happened before or after 1010 AD.

That message in 2300 could've been recorded in 1999 AD and just played in 2300.... ?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2009, 07:01:07 pm »
Of course it was made before, but then how did the image of Lavos destroying the world got in there?

Unless someone else inserted the image after, but then who could have been?

killercactus

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2009, 08:14:41 am »
Well, if the Dead Sea represents the ruined timeline (or effects of that timeline) coming back into existence, that recording would exist again.  The Dead Sea has a lot of things in it that wouldn't actually be in that location (Nadia's Bell, Johnny, etc).

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2009, 12:04:16 pm »
But it's not the same recording. It says that Lavos has yet to rise. When it was made, the world was still fine.

The recording was of the Day of Lavos itself, not about Lavos.

FouCapitan

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2009, 02:44:18 am »
Didn't Chronopolis get thrown back in time in 2400 AD?  Even then there was a long period of time that Chronopilis existed in the past up to present time.

Wouldn't the Dead Sea follow the same timeline with the alternate ruined future being thrown back into the past from 2400 AD?

With that, the recording makes even less sense.  A visual record of Lavos' emergence, stated at 2300 AD existing in 2400 AD referring to lithosphere test results which Lavos (post emergence) would not even be in nor would the test results even be relevant to the current situation of a post emergence world.  So maybe the recording was made in 2300 AD, referring to pre emergence testing done on Lavos, and accompanied by an emergence image for reference purposes?

....My brain hurts now.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2009, 02:52:20 am »
It doesn't matter when it was done, what it does matter is that only one condition will be met no matter the year. The image post DoL, the information pre DoL. The fact both are together in the same article is out of place.

Besides, isn't the computer it is stored one of the only things not frozen in the Dead Sea? That has to mean something. Why is that?

chrono eric

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2009, 09:58:16 pm »
Wouldn't the Dead Sea follow the same timeline with the alternate ruined future being thrown back into the past from 2400 AD?

No, because it is stated in the game that the Dead Sea didn't appear until 1010 AD when the dimensions split (thus supporting a shared past or branch theory), and Miguel himself states that he remembers hanging out in Chronopolis for 4 years before it was turned into the Dead Sea, so he actually witnessed the transformation.

It is a true enigma. Miguel states that the Dead Sea was brought from the DBT and will be "returned to the DBT" based on the actions that Serge makes. It represents a "potential future". But the ruins in the Dead Sea seemingly belong to both 2400 AD and 2300 AD, and not from the ruins of 1999 AD, as if it is a hodgepodge of the destroyed "bright" future and the future that was sent to the DBT. Strange.

killercactus

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Re: Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2009, 02:06:22 pm »
I now agree with all of you about the recording being weird - it doesn't make a lot of sense.  It seems that the computer is saying Lavos has yet to rise - I missed that part.  I guess the only way it would make sense is if it was a recording from 1999 or before that had been preserved.

But, something else unrelated that I'll just throw out there.... Are we sure the Time Devourer, in it's state before Serge is saved, can do anything from the DBT?  We've heard that is has the potential to devour space-time.  But, do we know if it can do that while it's sitting in the DBT bonding with Schala? 

We know that it was least discussed that Serge might bond with the TD, and that the being would then be completed.  Serge would complete the being because he is an Arbiter of the Frozen Flame, theoretically.  But, if Serge dies as an Arbiter, then maybe the TD can't be "completed"?  And, if it can't be completed, and it can't do anything in it's current (Schala-only) state, then there is no threat.  However, if Serge survives, the threat exists of the TD being completed, thus destroying space time.  And, playing off of Thought's post in the TTI/TB/TE thread, since nothing in the Chrono series changes until and action takes place (e.g. the TD being defeated by Serge), it could be assumed that, unless Serge acts otherwise, the TD will consume him and destroy the world.

Perhaps the ruined future that Miguel and the ghosts refer to is that future.  It's not the exact future of Lavos destroying the world in 1999 AD, but it is a future where Lavos destroys the world.

An interesting note to that - if it's true that the TD is no threat as long as Serge is dead, then Belthasar put the entire world (at least Home World, but maybe all worlds) in jeopardy just to save Schala, by resurrecting Serge in Home World. 

And, I still suspect it goes back further than that, and that Belthasar had Schala cause the storm that made Serge an Arbiter in the first place, but that's another story...