Taking another look at how Serge's survival causes Home World's destruction

[utunnels]

Hey, if the dimension was divided, does it mean the 2 time lines must have their own history in logic?
So even if they share same history before 1010 A.D., the fact that FATE manipulate the history still exists.
This is similar to time travel, if you time-travel and change the history, the event must have been written in the history when you come back.
So when the dimension was divided, history of both time lines must have been changed. That's why the record in Chronopolis says "FATE has always been observing the 2 parallel worlds, and guiding them."

[Thought]

If I understand your question, then yes, they both have their own history (even though for the majority that history would be the exact same).

After the dimensional split, traveling from 1020 AD in Home World to 600AD would take you to that period in Home World. Any change there would (presumably) only affect Home World.

Though such is, unfortunately, just a supposition. We don't see confirmation of this in game.

[chrono eric]

And perhaps we see evidence against it, if the split is literally like a Y in which Home World is a continuation of the original timeline and Another World is a new dimension that branches off from it at the Split Point in 1010 AD. This would explain why the Dead Sea spontaneously appears in 1010 AD, instead of existing the entire time since 12,000 BC. This is a very strange fact that the story does not explain very well. It is even stranger that Miguel witnesses this transformation first hand after being present in Chronopolis for 4 years.

[Thought]

A very good point, and also another instance of inconsistency in TTI. As it stands, the compendium holds that traveling into Chronopolis/Dead Sea is like traveling into the future (that the city is sort of contained in a Time Bubble). Miguel's entrance into the city might be preserved, but not his subsequent time there.

[chrono eric]

Yes, the whole Chronopolis time bubble thing really bothers me as it is based on circumstantial evidence at best. The Sea of Eden is clearly some sort of self-contained area since the ruins of the Dead Sea were condensed into it,  but Miguel's speech right before the Dead Sea is destroyed strongly suggests that they are in fact not in the future, but in the present.

And yet, it is at the same time frustrating because treating the boundary of the Sea of Eden this way neatly explains how the El Nido islands still exist in the Ideal Timeline because of TTI.

[killercactus]

If I understand your question, then yes, they both have their own history (even though for the majority that history would be the exact same).

After the dimensional split, traveling from 1020 AD in Home World to 600AD would take you to that period in Home World. Any change there would (presumably) only affect Home World.

Though such is, unfortunately, just a supposition. We don't see confirmation of this in game.

It's an important supposition though, if it can somehow be proven that when FATE is locked out of the Flame, it is locked out in all time periods, thus preventing it from manipulating the past it knows.

I wish it really said when FATE told that girl not to be a poet.....

[chrono eric]

Waitaminute, if Home World and Another World share their history before 1010 AD, then FATE must have told the girl not to be a poet sometime after 1010 AD.

And isn't that significant? Did that happen in Home World or Another World? Because in Home World FATE supposedly could not intervene after 1010 AD.

[killercactus]

I think that's my point.  In Home World, the girl is a poet (or is about to leave to become one).  In Another World, she gave it up "ages ago."  If we assume that Home World and Another World have the same past up to 1010 AD, then FATE had to tell the girl after 1010 AD in Another World.  In Home World, FATE can't tell her not to be a poet, because it can't intervene.

Things like that are probably what caused the Dead Sea.  Since FATE can't intervene now, that girl will go to the mainland.  So will the fisherman.  Who knows what they'll do to it that will change the future / past.....

What I was hoping for when I first pondered that is that if FATE told the girl BEFORE 1010 AD.  That would imply that Home and Another do not share the same past, and also that being locked out of the Flame could affect FATE in the past as well.  But, I don't think the evidence points that way.  It seems like both she and the fisherman were told after Serge died / was saved.  It could account for the Dead Sea though....

[Acacia Sgt]

Just after FATE can't? I wonder why it was like that. FATE must prevent people from the islands going to the mainland. But was it fine for FATE to let people of the mainland to go live to the islands? Wouldn't that affect it as much as being the other way around?

[chrono eric]

Yes that is something that I always wondered about as well and what I considered to be a plot-hole of Cross. It is possible that FATE just assessed the probability of any single individual affecting the future to a substantial degree, but that seems unreasonable. It would make much more sense to attempt to block any and all contact with the mainland.

And here is another puzzling concept that I've been thinking about lately - The Compendium currently holds that the Sea of Eden is in some kind of "time bubble" and was not literally sent back in time. But what if this isn't the case? It certainly doesn't seem that way, given evidence from the game. Circumstantial evidence supports it at best.

FATE is concerned with preventing events that alter the future because FATE is literally concerned with its own survival. It fears that if the future is altered so that it won't exist - then it will cease to exist in the past as well. This would seemingly contradict TTI that works so well throughout the series, but we see a similar situation arising with the Marle Paradox.

And yet the Sea of Eden and the Dead Sea are clearly some self-contained temporal structure of some kind. Hmmm.

[utunnels]

Waitaminute, if Home World and Another World share their history before 1010 AD, then FATE must have told the girl not to be a poet sometime after 1010 AD.

And isn't that significant? Did that happen in Home World or Another World? Because in Home World FATE supposedly could not intervene after 1010 AD.

If they share the history before 1010 AD, does it mean that each world had all of the 5 dragons before that?
That's why I think after the dimension was divided, the 2 time lines' history are both changed, instead of a Y branch.

"FATE has always been observing the 2 parallel worlds, and guiding them."

[chrono eric]

Yes, it does, and in the Chrono Cross Ultimania guide it states something to this effect - that FATE wiped from existence some of the dragons from each world after the dimensional split. I will find the quote tomorrow and post it here, unless I completely dreamed that up 

[Vehek]

Here.

Regarding the Six Dragon Gods, originally they existed in two dimensions, but it was made such that each in either word was destroyed.

[utunnels]

originally they existed in two dimensions

Well, if there were TWO dimensions that those dragons exist in, why it "splitted".

At first I thought Home World was created in the 1010 A.D., until I read the report in Chronopolis which said FATE has always been observing the 2 parallel worlds, and guiding them, until the accident in 1010 A.D. I thought it must be true since it was the official script.
Then I saw an Ultimania scan which said HW was created when Serge was saved in 1010 A.D., wtf.
So I had a conclusion that when the dimension was divided in 1010 A.D., history of each time line was changed to fit that fact, so that why the report said FATE has always been observing the 2 worlds...

[chrono eric]

Yes, the script of Cross has many contradictions within in, and interpretation is always subjective when the script is ambiguous.

For example, the above quote (thanks Vehek, you saved me the trouble  ) could be interpreted two ways:

1) The Dragon Gods existed in both dimensions (despite being in part trans-dimensional entities) until 1010 AD when FATE only then decide to destroy some in both worlds.

-or-

2) The Dragon Gods existed for a short while in both dimensions after the creation of Home World in 1010 AD before FATE decided to destroy some in both worlds.


Both are perfectly reasonable interpretations. Personally, the second one was how I interpreted it when I first read that quote. But that begs the question - how could FATE annihilate the Dragons of Home World when it no longer had influence over Home World?

The script says again and again that the dimensional split happened in 1010 AD. A shared past timeline with a "Y" shaped model for the dimensional split neatly explains why the Dead Sea only appears in 1010 AD and not prior to that in Home World. It explains why Miguel remembered living in Chronopolis up until that point. But then the script also says that FATE has always been observing both worlds. It is endlessly confusing, and my two cents is that we should side with the model of events that has the most consistency.