Vipers...related to Tata?(+Pierre and Hero's Medal)

[FaustWolf]

Pierre's character entry in the Compendium suggests that Pierre joins *after* Serge and Kid find his medal, is this correct? If so, then there is no inconsistency with what Pierre says, as you've pointed out that the medal is probably not present on his field model, and he would have his medal by the time he appeared in battle.

Consequently Satoh, your theory has passed the first hurdle of not contradicting in-game evidence, and now we have proof that what we see in the concept art is not always to be believed. Congratulations!

[Satoh]

Woot! lol

Anyway, I checked, and his medal does, in fact, not appear in the field model.

And now that I think about it, he may very well be tied to Glenn in some way or another, judging by his "SlapOfCyrus".

GRanted this may be a translation mess... but unless someone finds the original name of the skill, I claim that as extra supporting evidence.

[V_Translanka]

now we have proof that what we see in the concept art is not always to be believed.

Wait, what evidence was provided that proved that??

the dreamstone, sunstone, and moonstone look distinctly different from their representations in the game.

I don't think they look that different...especially the Sun & Moonstones...They just look like they're still fragmented in some other stone, really...And the Dreamstone...well, it's a rock...it's not like it can't look different...I mean, if all the spiky bits were taken off, who's to say it wouldn't look the same? We know that people used Dreamstone to create other objects anyways...unless there's something more definite, I think the CT art should match.

but take for example the Time Egg, why does the CC one look so flagrantly different from the one in CT?

Well, for one, they're not the same...the Time Egg in CC is incomplete.

[FaustWolf]

now we have proof that what we see in the concept art is not always to be believed.

Wait, what evidence was provided that proved that??

The medal Pierre actually wears is identical to the real deal. The concept art differs distinctly from that, and yet claims to be the very same object (IF Pierre acquires the Hero's Medal before appearing in battle -- anyone know?). Either the concept art is inaccurate or the texture art is inaccurate.

By corollary, if Pierre joins the party *before* he receives the Hero's Medal, then the "Hero's Badge" used in MedalSome and the Hero's Medal shown in the concept art are two different objects.

Again, can anyone confirm that the flow of events for recruiting Pierre is as follows?
1.) Talk to Pierre. "My preciousss is loooost!"
2.) Find John and nab the Hero's Medal from him.
3.) Pierre says "Thankies!" and offers to guide Serge & Kid to Viper Manor, at which point he joins.

[Satoh]

now we have proof that what we see in the concept art is not always to be believed.

Wait, what evidence was provided that proved that??

The medal Pierre actually wears is identical to the real deal. The concept art differs distinctly from that, and yet claims to be the very same object (IF Pierre acquires the Hero's Medal before appearing in battle -- anyone know?). Either the concept art is inaccurate or the texture art is inaccurate.

By corollary, if Pierre joins the party *before* he receives the Hero's Medal, then the "Hero's Badge" used in MedalSome and the Hero's Medal shown in the concept art are two different objects.

Again, can anyone confirm that the flow of events for recruiting Pierre is as follows?
1.) Talk to Pierre. "My preciousss is loooost!"
2.) Find John and nab the Hero's Medal from him.
3.) Pierre says "Thankies!" and offers to guide Serge & Kid to Viper Manor, at which point he joins.

Lol, aside from your..."liberties" with the dialog, that's exactly how it goes...
Which means, that through the normal course of the game, he cannot appear in battle before you find his Medal...

[FaustWolf]

That fact clinches it then. There is no recourse but to conclude that the concept art, in this case at least, is a misrepresentation of the actual item. This is a momentous discovery.

As an added item of interest, I believe that in the Japanese version of Chrono Trigger the Hero's Medal was actually termed the Hero's "Badge," which is the term used in MedalSome's description. I now see no reason to believe that Pierre's medal is any different from the one Cyrus wore and which Frog and Tata inherited, provided the item could have survived without corrosion for 420 years.

[Satoh]

Well if it was really something so spectacular that it added fame to Cyrus' name when he reacquired it, it must have some special probperties... besides... people still find coins buried in the ocean depths for hundreds of years with only minute wear... so... it's plenty feesible in my mind...(feesable...feasible...? blast it, I need to look that one up...)

[V_Translanka]

The medal Pierre actually wears is identical to the real deal.

idk if we can go so far from 'similar' to 'identical' based on that tiny pixelated bit of his model...

The concept art differs distinctly from that, and yet claims to be the very same object (IF Pierre acquires the Hero's Medal before appearing in battle -- anyone know?). Either the concept art is inaccurate or the texture art is inaccurate.

This isn't just "concept art", as this is how it appears in-game. The "only recourse" is to assume that his Hero's Medal (above) and the medal he wears oh his chest aren't the same. I believe we're supposed to take all evidence given in-game as factual unless proven otherwise by further in-game evidence and that's just not the case here.

Does anyone know if he takes the medal from his chest when he uses MedalSome and raises it above his head? Or does it remain on his chest? Because if he doesn't remove it when he uses MedalSome, that would make it that much easier to assume that he does indeed have a different medal on his chest...

[Satoh]

I can check that out at this very moment...

EDIT: He clearly removes the Hero's Medal from his chest, and holds it above his head. It is visible in his hand right before the flash of the emblem.

[Kebrel]

When does that appear V? I don't ever recall seeing it...

[FaustWolf]

I think V simply meant that it isn't concept art by virtue of the player's seeing that very art in-game when they examine the Hero's Medal in the Rare Object menu. On that note, I should refer to it as Rare Object art and not "concept" art, as concept art is what we'd expect to find only in the Missing Pieces artbook.

Yes, as Satoh said, we can clearly see Pierre remove the Hero's Medal from his chest when he does "MedalSome." The Rare Object Art is thus ... mistaken.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJkxkLy9lQQ

[V_Translanka]

Hmm...did someone else do the art for those Key Items? And if so...who? I assume the person who did the models was different...Maybe the person who did the models was someone from the old team whereas the Key Item artist was someone new? It doesn't make sense that they'd make completely different art for it that looks nothing like it at any other time...

Also, just curious, I know that a lot of the Elements names were changed, but what about Tech names? I somehow doubt it was called "MedalSome" in the Japanese version...and also what about SlapofCyrus?

[FaustWolf]

The Chrono Cross Credits Page states that the following individuals were responsible for character texture art:

Yasuhiro Akiyama
Mika Nunokawa

Neither of whom were apparently involved in Chrono Trigger.

Yasayuki Honne is credited with "Art Conceptualization," so the Rare Object art might have fallen under his purview. Which is exactly the opposite of what we would expect, because he *was* involved in both Trigger and Radical Dreamers.

I can't confirm from the credits whether Honne was really the one who did the rare object art, however. Being the project's overall Art Director, though, he would have been in a position to oversee all art design. Why he'd let this discrepancy slip, I dunno.

[Satoh]

The Chrono Cross Credits Page states that the following individuals were responsible for character texture art:

Yasuhiro Akiyama
Mika Nunokawa

Neither of whom were apparently involved in Chrono Trigger.

Yasayuki Honne is credited with "Art Conceptualization," so the Rare Object art might have fallen under his purview. Which is exactly the opposite of what we would expect, because he *was* involved in both Trigger and Radical Dreamers.

I can't confirm from the credits whether Honne was really the one who did the rare object art, however. Being the project's overall Art Director, though, he would have been in a position to oversee all art design. Why he'd let this discrepancy slip, I dunno.

Quite simply put, it could very well be a case of human error... Consider just how much art work is involved and needs to be ok'ed by the art director before it is released... there is a lot of art in CC... granted that isn't a wonderful argument, but it's plausible that something that has no real impact on the story of this game, might slip through some cracks along the way...

Consider in some games how a character's entire concept and art style changes with the sequel, and is not explained but simply taken as "that was that game's style, this is the sequel's style"...

[ZealKnight]

This is just some more examples of how in-game graphics differed from the key item art. If you look at the bell flower i can't really tell but the art in the key items doesn't look like a bell when the graphic does. The komodo scale is rainbow colored when the komodo dragon doesn't have some of those colors like blue for instance. The battle model of the Einlanzer looks different than the art.

The one thing that I did see is maybe nothing but I would like point it out anyways, but somethings wrong with the which way the face is looking on the medal. The one posted by V would make it seem as if Satoh is right, but the one posted by Wolf is the opposite direction.