Lavos And The Universe

[Leebot]

The universe is finite in volume. Therefore, there are a finite number of planets, and an even more finite amount of planets that can support life. Since the food source is finite, the Lavos species will eventually starve to death, assuming that they aren't exterminated first.

We have little proof that our universe is finite in volume, much less the CT universe. It's quite common for fantasy worlds to be constructed with unlimited size. In Dungeons and Dragons, for example, the Material Plane (the most reality-like) is like our universe with life-supporting planets orbiting stars, but with infinite size.

[Epsilon]

Well, we know that even Time ends sometime, so the Lavos cycle can't last forever...

[Swordmaster]

A question came to me while reading this; is it inferrable that Ice Ages on other planets would not have occurred save for a Lavoid's impact? Ones unafflicted by Lavoids may have Reptite or Dragonian similar lifeforms. Also, it is said in Cross that humans did not evolve into intelligent beings until after contact with the Frozen Flame; is it neccessarily a fact that a Frozen Flame splinter of a Lavoid's shell occurs with every landing? The Chrono world may be very unique in its universe.

If we agre that Ayla and her peoples are already humans before the Lavos landing, perhaps the Frozen Flame came sometime before Lavos.
So the Frozen flame is a probe with a interface that Lavos send to a planet to do the first explorations and find organism with certain potential . When the primitve humans touched the flame initiated a reaction in then and the Lavos coming.

But its only my theory.

[Leebot]

If we agre that Ayla and her peoples are already humans before the Lavos landing, perhaps the Frozen Flame came sometime before Lavos.
So the Frozen flame is a probe with a interface that Lavos send to a planet to do the first explorations and find organism with certain potential . When the primitve humans touched the flame initiated a reaction in then and the Lavos coming.

But its only my theory.

The problem with that is that th records of Chronopolis (I believe that's it) state that Apes came in contact with the flame around 3 million BC, long after Lavos landed.

[Swordmaster]

The problem with that is that th records of Chronopolis (I believe that's it) state that Apes came in contact with the flame around 3 million BC, long after Lavos landed.

The problems are know if Ayla ands Co. were Humans or Apes  and if this contact not mean " the use" of the power of the Frozen Flame.
But sure is not easy situate the Flame in CT.

[Green Dream]

It seem probable that Ayla and them are considered Apes.  In CC the Fort Dragonia wall says that,"All life started from water".  That includes Apes too.  That means they have the potential to evolve so they LOOK like humans and even have a slow brain developement.  Remember how Ayla talked.  It was broken english.  Remember how Zealians talked.  It was pretty much the same as it was in 1000A.D.  Someway or somehow contact with the frozen flame cause their brains to develop at an accelerated pace between 65000000B.C. and 12000B.C.  We are given the date 3000000B.C.  This for the most part lays down that Apes became human and gained intellegence to become human at 3000000B.C.  It's stated in the game.  It is possibly part of Lavos or something belonging to it.  Maybe.

As for whether or not Apes used it to become human or just contact with it started the evolution, I would think about parallels to the Garden of Eden.  Notice that the place where the frozen flame is kept is called the Sea of Eden!  In fact, the Sea of Eden does seem in many ways like the Garden.  It sure is paradice like.  It sure is isolated from the rest of the world.  However, like all paradices it had its fall.  Some people wanted to use the Frozen Flame(Think about that fruit of knowledge of good and evil here) and then someone tried to use it to their advantage and the whole thing time crashed.  Plus the people were kicked out and lived a harder life outside of Chronopolis afterward.  Also remember there was that one ghost who thought is was wrong that they were doing that.  That they would in essence be making themselves gods with knowledge of everything.  Maybe Lavos tricked humans to use the frozen flame back in 3000000B.C., just like the snake did.  They would then have intellegence after they used it.  Makes you wonder if the entity/planet made the Frozen Flame like God made the tree that beared fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.  Well at least thats more support for the theory that the Chrono series is one big bible parallel.  Hopefully someone here will take my idea and expand on it. Or totally diprove it.

[Swordmaster]

Face: When I was still human, I was locked up here, and I have been here ever since...
This tower is a fortress belonging to the ancient Reptites... A symbol of revenge,
brought against mankind by the Dragons... With the defeat of FATE, the seal has been
broken and this tower has surfaced... In the eyes of the Dragons, we humans are the
foes... A brain that has developed abnormally to 3 times the original size in the span
of 3 million years... We humans have evolved at an enormous rate because of our
contact with Lavos's flame... In a sense, mankind is Lavos's offspring... We humans
are extraneous to this planet... Now... How will you fight, Serge...

Is this what you guys are talking?

[Chrono'99]

Face: When I was still human, I was locked up here, and I have been here ever since...
This tower is a fortress belonging to the ancient Reptites... A symbol of revenge,
brought against mankind by the Dragons... With the defeat of FATE, the seal has been
broken and this tower has surfaced... In the eyes of the Dragons, we humans are the
foes... A brain that has developed abnormally to 3 times the original size in the span
of 3 million years... We humans have evolved at an enormous rate because of our
contact with Lavos's flame... In a sense, mankind is Lavos's offspring... We humans
are extraneous to this planet... Now... How will you fight, Serge...

Is this what you guys are talking?

Yes, I think it's this.

However, this is not an exact date... For all we know, it could be 3 millions years from 65.000.000BC, or anything...

And, mmh? How does this face even know Serge's name?

[Leebot]

And, mmh? How does this face even know Serge's name?

::Flips through RPG rulebook:: Ah! Here it is!

Rule #159: All arch-villains, prophets, and mysterious entities must know the protagonist's name.

[Epsilon]

The face knows Serge's name because Serge has a nametag that says "SERGE".. you just cant see it due to the fact that only faces in Terra Tower can see it... an odd effect of dimensional travel, of course

[Swordmaster]

[quote="Green Dream]
It seem probable that Ayla and them are considered Apes. In CC the Fort Dragonia wall says that,"All life started from water". That includes Apes too. That means they have the potential to evolve so they LOOK like humans and even have a slow brain developement. Remember how Ayla talked. It was broken english. Remember how Zealians talked. It was pretty much the same as it was in 1000A.D. Someway or somehow contact with the frozen flame cause their brains to develop at an accelerated pace between 65000000B.C. and 12000B.C. We are given the date 3000000B.C. This for the most part lays down that Apes became human and gained intellegence to become human at 3000000B.C. It's stated in the game. It is possibly part of Lavos or something belonging to it. Maybe.
[/quote]

Laruba village had bridges, guard towers, huts, some tipe of religion , control of the fire, trade, musical instruments and Yoka domesticated animals like the dactils.
My conclusion is that Laruba and Yoka are humans with primitives cultures like today indians.

[V_Translanka]

India's culture isn't primitive...

[Epsilon]

I'm guessing he means "Native Americans".. Indians is a generally used term in the USA...

[Symmetry]

I think "apes" was a term used by the Reptites to demean Ayla's people. If you look at them, they are clearly not apes. (From our perspective) They are humans, albeit primitive ones. If I'm not mistaken, the only ones who use the term "apes" to refer to the people of 65,000,000 BC are the Reptites and their decendents.

[Baroquiel]

The concept of the Frozen Flame granting humans intelligence, and that fact that Laruba and Ioka have established at least primitive cultures, seems to leave a paradox...

...would you not still consider the people of Ioka and Laruba to be intelligent? They indeed had an oral form of language...intelligent enough to speak to Crono and company (people from thousands of years into the future!)

Of course, the game being all in one language was simply to facilitate the player...but if Crono and company had to use a translation device to understand what Ayla was saying, it would be more believable. The concept of a language not changing in tens of thousands of years is unthinkable!

What I am trying to say is that the records of Chronopolis that state that humanity did not become intelligent until contact with the Frozen Flame are incorrect, or simply refer to one or a few time streams of the Chrono universe.