Author Topic: So, What is the Entity in CT?  (Read 8682 times)

Boo the Gentleman Caller

  • Guru of Life Emeritus
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5305
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2008, 02:12:49 pm »
From the Instructions Booklet...

Quote
The dream our planet once had
Defeated the darkness and brought forth a brighter future.
However, this was also the dawn of a new nightmare...

The final battle over the legendary treasure, "The Frozen Flame"
A battle between dragons, humans, and FATE
That will surpass even space and time is about to begin...

Our planet's dream has not yet ended...

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2008, 04:23:02 pm »
they did give a little thought to christianity

melchoir gaspar and belthasar are said to be the 3 wise men at jesus' birth

Except that wasn't their names in the Japanese version; only the NA translation. Sort of like how the Masamune was actually the Granleon

V_Translanka

  • Interim Global Moderator
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8340
  • Destroyer of Worlds
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/v_translanka/
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2008, 10:16:54 pm »
Yeah, Bosch, Hasch, & Gasch not so Christian...your thanks go to Woosley...oddly enough, since back then most religious references were nixed from games. Maybe it was his way of rebelling?

MeshGearFox

  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2008, 09:56:02 pm »
Well, Basch, Hasch, and Gasch sound a bit silly in English, anyway.

In regards to CT, I think the Entity is either the Planet or more of a concept the characters created to explain all of the unknowable stuff they just saw.

In CC, there seem to be heavy, heavy ties to Zurvanism and the idea of Dreamtime from aboriginal mythology (Although only Zurvanism is directly referenced and only then in passing in the ending), but in any case, the Entity is definitely the Planet in CC, and should be the same thing in CT.

What's sort of funny: http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?keyword=Chrono+Trigger&user=ideas&sortby=des One of these, and I THINK it's part six, talks about how the Entity wouldn't just be the planet, as the dream of the planet would also include, or might even consist entirely of, the inhabitants of the planet -- all of THEIR dreams.

This is noteworthy in two ways: First, taking CC into consideration, it's possible that the red moongate in CT was something that Lucca created for her past self, somehow, and that the timegates were a result of the time crash via some sort of weird causality loop. So, the dream of the planet would be more mankind's will to survive, and the Entity would be this collective will. Or something.

Second, Lavos is so connected to the Planet, humanity, and history that, I mean, wouldn't Lavos, if the entity is the planet, be PART of the entity?

Also, one last question: Why did people think the Entity was the player? Explanation I heard is that the Entity was what was guiding the player around which is what the player was literally doing. Except the sentence doesn't say the Entity was leading the player around. It says the Entity was trying to relive past memories. How can you parse that sentence so completely wrong?

ZealKnight

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1067
  • Loyal Knight of the Kingdom of Zeal
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2008, 01:10:11 am »
The question we really need to ask is who could benefit the most from the unexplained events in the game. And which of these beings has the power to do this. The planet would be logical, if it planed all the events in CC but the dragon's death. The Entity could possibly be Schala, if she planed all the events in CC. But then again if CT never happened then Schala would have never been in the DBT, so it would have had to have happened before 1999 in the original timeline. The Entity is probably not Gaspar, because he really has no way of manipulating gates. The gates seem more as just the nature of The End of Time, he is just incredibly smart and knowledgeable. The Entity is definitely not Lavos, why would he kill himself? Does he feel guilty about what he is doing, I doubt it.

ChaosIX

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Magic is only as effective as the caster believes.
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2008, 06:40:22 pm »
I think if you throw FATE into the mix, then the Entity has less control over the events. Which is why you had to fight FATE in CC in the first place, if I'm not mistaken.

ZealKnight

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1067
  • Loyal Knight of the Kingdom of Zeal
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2008, 12:53:27 pm »
Fate didn't exist till after Lavos died therefore she is not an option. It has to be someone who existed before Lavos' death.

Fireseal

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2008, 04:24:57 pm »
Wouldn't Balthasar be the one benefitting most from the events of Chrono Cross? Did he not say that he basically orchestrated everything up until the moment that Serge and company defeated the Dragon God? He seemed to me that he was the only one that truly wanted Schala to be free from Lavos. He was the only one who somehow knew of what was going on even from the moment Schala went MIA from Chrono Trigger. After the whole speech about the Time Devourer and the Chrono Cross, he suddenly disappears...

Now to get back on topic, I think that the planet is the entity, Chrono Cross convinced me and also other arguments from previous topics I've seen.. I hope to God that the planet is the entity, it would require me changing a few things here and there on my Chrono #3 fanfic(doubt that Square-Enix would take it for a script) that I've been working on for 2 years and 2 months(as of yesterday).  :(

Machina Kyrios

  • Bounty Hunter
  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • I Am A Glittering Gem of Hatred
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2008, 03:10:50 pm »
It is my belief that the Entity is a Lavoid organism, though an older member of our favorite world-devouring parasite's species. Now, this is mostly wild speculation based on some evidence, but here goes. (Sorry if such has been said before, I've looked around through the forum archives, but there's a lot of ground to cover. ^_^) I also apologize if things seem a bit disjointed. I lost a coin toss with myself and cannot go to sleep until this is posted.


Both Lavos and the Entity have demonstrated similar feats. Both have demonstrated advanced abilities in the manipulation of time and space, such as the creation of gates and the events of the Time Crash. The sudden decline in human evolutionary development after the fall of Lavos suggests that there was some force manipulating human genetics either before the fall, or before Lavos got his hands (or,shell fragments, rather) which may point to the Entity either uplifting humans like Lavos did, only to lose control over them leading to a de-evolution, or the Entity consciously kneecapped humanity because it saw what Lavos might (and did) do with the species.

The reliance on the energy of the world is another point of speculation. It's told and accepted that as Lavos feeds on the energy of the world, the Entity dies. However, the draining of energy is also something Lavos has to deal with, with his civilization-destroying retaliation against Zeal for the ocean palace as per other analysis. The Entity, apparently unable to strike at Lavos directly, instead we can see the Entity helping Crono and company on their Lavos-destroying quest. But, if the Entity is a Lavoid organism, it has another reason to stop Lavos. The affliction of the Entity may not be direct draining, but starvation. Given the guess that the pocket dimension Lavos uses allows it efficient draining of energy from all eras, Lavos may be out-competing the Entity for food, preventing it from gathering energy from the planet.

If the arrival of Lavos is the K-T impact, the arrival of the Entity would likely be along the lines of the Panspermia hypothesis, with its arrival potentially taking place >2 billion years ago. However, (and now we get into REALLY wild speculation) given that Lavos survived a direct nuclear strike from the nations of 1999 AD as well as the kinetic and thermal energy resulting from its own barrage, Lavos may be capable of absorbing large amounts of energy from explosions, impacts, and heat. After all, with its pocket dimension's opening deep inside the planet, Lavos has plenty of access to geothermal energy. The climate of 2300 AD and the use of domes in 1999 AD could suggest a gradual cooling of the planet, which may point to Lavos. If such a feat is possible for the species, the Entity could arrive during the formation of the planet, using the abundant thermal energy of the molten surface both to fulfill its own needs, and set the stage for life.

A >2 billion year existence would give a Lavoid Entity more than enough time to breed, send off its children, and settle down to sustain itself non-destructively with what the planet produces. As demonstrated by Lavos and the Frozen Flame, inciting the evolution of life and manipulating lifeforms is well within the means of a Lavoid organism, perhaps life on the planet was the result of the Entity growing bored. It would explain its ire in Chrono Cross.


But, like I said, wild speculation. Maybe the shocking revelation promised for CTDS will finally end the Entity speculation once and for all. ^_^

V_Translanka

  • Interim Global Moderator
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8340
  • Destroyer of Worlds
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/v_translanka/
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2008, 08:45:21 pm »
Quote
The sudden decline in human evolutionary development after the fall of Lavos suggests that there was some force manipulating human genetics either before the fall, or before Lavos got his hands (or,shell fragments, rather) which may point to the Entity either uplifting humans like Lavos did, only to lose control over them leading to a de-evolution, or the Entity consciously kneecapped humanity because it saw what Lavos might (and did) do with the species.

There's also the whole nuclear winter that occurred after Lavos fell to earth...

In Chrono Cross' ending, planets are talked about as being living organisms along with the seed of life (or more accurately a combination of the two)...

I think the similarity in ability can be explained a lot easier...as you say, Lavos uses the energy of the planet...So it would make sense that it would gain similar power that the Entity has at its disposal, perhaps even greater...

DBoruta

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2008, 07:19:02 pm »
Masato Kato in an interview confirmed that the planet is the entity in Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger.  The thing is, Kato didn't have complete control over the CT project or all the storyline elements to it.  He wanted the planet to be the entity, and since he took over the project for CC, it was thus made canon. 

If you really look at Chrono Trigger, however, you can see that while Kato is right in that the planet probably was responsible for the gates in some way (probably time-space freakout effects from the planet and Lavos), it was actually Bosh who made use of them, although it's never explained how, only hinted at that he knew exactly what was going to happen.  For example, when you first meet Bosh, he's already finished working on the dolls that enable you to climb Death Peak later in the game.  In fact, even though he is in a degenerate state, he still knows you're supposed to climb Death Peak at some point and hints at it.  Of course, there's other things as well, but I'm hoping to lay all of this out in a future topic of mine... if I ever get the time to write it.

V_Translanka

  • Interim Global Moderator
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8340
  • Destroyer of Worlds
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/v_translanka/
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2008, 11:07:52 pm »
You mean like how his last notes all reference the "true heroes" he just happens to know will be the only ones capable of opening the Zealian seals?

DBoruta

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2008, 11:23:18 pm »
That, and how he programmed the Nu with his memories to perform two tasks: The first was to hand over the Wings of Time to Crono & co., and the other was activate the dolls that would allow them to scale death peak and use the Time Egg.  It was quite interesting as well that Bosh programmed the Nu with the knowledge of how to use the Time Egg.  Coincidence? Definitely not.  Bosh somehow found out about these time gates and was able to play a part in orchestrating Chrono Trigger.  The fact that he knew what would happen in the 5-D timeframe (the timeline in which Chrono Trigger progresses) before it would actually happen suggests he could have had a larger part in the events of Chrono Trigger than we actually know about.  All we have are the hintings-at from the game.   

Shadow D. Darkman

  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2630
  • "Chrono Cross" is good, and spoilers never hurt...
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2008, 10:29:06 pm »
Honestly, I think the CT/CC planet is a being not unlike us humans. And I support the theory that the planet itself is the Entity. My only question is, how the hell did Prometheus (Robo) discover its existence as a living and sentient being?

Fireseal

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: So, What is the Entity in CT?
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2008, 11:47:23 am »
Didn't he just say that there is an Entity among them that's causing the gates and not saying that it's the planet that is the Entity?

Anyhow if Robo did come to that conclusion, he had 400 years(or less due to his state in 1000AD being very rusty, nonetheless he had a long time) to reflect on his time-traveling journey up to that point as well as overseeing the growth of time. He is also a Robot, he might have sensors that can see things that humans can't detect?