Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading  (Read 1506 times)

wwfgd

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Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« on: July 24, 2008, 12:59:27 pm »
I've just finished a pretty lengthy analysis of Chrono Trigger as it relates to philosophy, especially existentialism.  I'm not a regular on these forums, but because Chrono compendium was such an invaluable resource for me, I thought I'd post the finished series here.  It's a 6-part series on my LiveJournal; the following link goes to an index of all six entries.

Chrono Trigger Analysis

Each of the entries starts with a partial synopsis of the game that will be old hat to all of you.  The commentary comes at the end of each article and is marked as such.  I'd appreciate any feedback.

maggiekarp

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 04:42:26 pm »
Interesting, but I'm gonna have to read all of it before I can give a real opinion. Digging it so far, though.

VincentGAU8

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 01:23:50 am »
Wow.. You did all of that?
I have not the time to read it all, although I am impressed by such a lengthy insight..
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 01:28:47 am by VincentGAU8 »

maggiekarp

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2008, 02:14:46 am »
Hokay, finally read it all. Damn, even if you're not into the whole existentialism thing, I think that's a good read for any CT fan. I especially liked the way you incorporated the retranslation, it was insightful and necessary, but I think anyone unfamiliar with it would get it without feeling any disrespect to the original localization. You added to our favorite characters and themes rather than changed them to something weird. Bookmarked.

It definately has a place on this site, though sometimes I felt like it needed cleaning up in some places and expansion in others.

wwfgd

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 03:01:13 am »
It definately has a place on this site, though sometimes I felt like it needed cleaning up in some places and expansion in others.

Yeah, it's not my most polished work, owing to the sheer volume of material I had to cover.  If you've got suggestions on what I should expand, clarify or cut, I'd like to hear them (either here or in the journal itself).  In any case, thanks for reading.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 03:11:56 am »
I'll read it in the next few days.

Kebrel

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2008, 04:25:06 am »
I'll read it in the next few days.
I recommend doing soon then that, it was VERY well put together. You took a few leaps, like with the Dreamstone, but it in no way detracts from the analysis. Insightful AND entertaining.

maggiekarp

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2008, 01:22:05 pm »
Yeah, it's not my most polished work, owing to the sheer volume of material I had to cover.  If you've got suggestions on what I should expand, clarify or cut, I'd like to hear them (either here or in the journal itself).  In any case, thanks for reading.

I just noticed a lot of typos that could be easily fixed in a re-read, but those usually mean there are other errors, too... As for what to expand and clarify, I can't really say anything for certain since it'd be based on what I personally want to hear, which would mostly be character analysis not necessarily related to the existential themes ("Wait, did Marle ever get a center for her fragmented personality? Did she just give up and decide to be a baby factory? Wh- it's over already?")

wwfgd

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2008, 10:12:36 pm »
"Wait, did Marle ever get a center for her fragmented personality? Did she just give up and decide to be a baby factory? Wh- it's over already?"

I noticed this lingering question, too.  Marle's got a pretty strong character arc going at the beginning of the game, but then it just trails off.   I think Marle shows the most growth in the Moonlight Parade endings, especially the versions where Crono hasn't been resurrected yet.  She's proactive and determined in those endings -- and shows no compunction about ditching her dad to go time-hopping -- but she seems more responsible and self-possessed at the same time.  I like the symbolism of replacing Leene's Bell with Nadia's Bell, too.

But, yeah, between Marle and Magus, Chrono Trigger is a game in dire need of a real sequel.  I would be very interested to learn how life worked out for Queen Nadia.

maggiekarp

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2008, 01:38:31 am »
I would be very interested to learn how life worked out for Queen Nadia.
If Cross and RD are to be taken as complete canon... it didn't.

Of course they do say the Fall of Guardia was caused by someone outside of the normal flow of time. One wonders what happens to Serge, Kid, Magus, and the rest in the "proper" timeline, if there even is one.

-edit-
Quote from: wwfgd
...Chrono Trigger is a game in dire need of a real sequel
real sequel
I really need to work on my reading comprehension skills, hah
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 03:01:18 am by maggiekarp »

MeshGearFox

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2008, 02:14:14 am »
I think these interpretations work. I don't think the writers did a lot of this intentionally, but I wouldn't be surprised if the writers would accept these interpretations or, at the least, these probably explain why people still care so much about Chrono Trigger.

Reading a bit of your articles, there, specifically the thing about the campfire scene in SUBJECTIVITY/OBJECTIVITY AND TIME.

I tend to think, now, that that scene's really pivotal to the game as a whole. It changes the... context of the story?

The Planet dreams, but the people in the game are the ones that change history, and I tend to think that, maybe, the only thing the Planet wanted was just to relive its past, or tell someone its story so it didn't have to die so alone. Or something like that. Lavos getting defeated just sort of happened as a result of what the characters saw. Or not.

It's also a pretty weird scene because, while plenty of SNES games had moments you could call "dark," I can't really think of many others where the characters sit around and ask "What do you think'll happen to us when we die?" It's not just dark and moody storytelling or some misguided attempt at being deep and edgy or something. It's emotional directness.

Also, something else you reminded me of with: "On one level, this is a fantasy element that is irreconcilable with any kind of realistic existentialist philosophy, and even counter to existentialism's focus on the inevitable triumph of death and time."

A lot of people complained about Chrono and co. being dead in Cross, but I think it fits here and really points out something kind of ironic about a lot of RPGs. Even if you save the world from the Big Bad Guy, everyone's still going to die eventually. And as a result, though, people say Cross is cynical, because it kills off the main characters from the original -- I think I read a forum post where someone said this was just Kato getting revenge at his former coworkers and the Trigger fans (or something insane like that).

Maybe it WOULD be a case of Cross being cynical, except Trigger does this to itself already. Frog's from 600 AD, Ayla's from 65000000 BC, they're both dead by the time 1000 AD rolls around, and, ultimately, there's no way that Crono and co. would've even lived to see the end of the world had they lived normal lives, unaffected by finding timegates and things.

Two scenes from Dragon Warrior 7 remind me of this, a lot. I'm new and don't know how to make spoiler text invisible, so I guess this is a spoiler warning.

In one quest in the game, you travel back in time, and one of your party members leaves to defend a tribe of... gypsies, I guess you could call them. You never see him again, and later, in your own time, you're able to find his grave somewhere.

In another case, you travel back in time and meet a scientist who builds robots, one of which is named after a woman and is acting as his caretaker, sort of. In your home time, you can visit his house, and find the same robot trying to nurse the scientist back to health. Except by that point he's long dead, so you just see this robot puttering back and forth between a pot of soup in the kitchen and a pile of bones in the bedroom, talking about how it wants Zebo to get better.


As a result, I sort of do wonder whether some of these headier things were from Kato or Horii. Or if they were from Kato, if his work on CT had an effect on Horii going into DW7, because there are quite a few other odd, odd scenes in that game that dwell heavily on mortality.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 02:20:54 am by MeshGearFox »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 08:06:06 pm »
I'll have to postpone this for the next update, since I haven't been able to give due time to it...

soulsurfer

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Re: Chrono Trigger: An Existentialist Reading
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 02:51:09 pm »
I just got a chance to read this article...very well put together, especially for something that was purely for the fun of it. I really got a lot out of the existentialist reading and I think it hits on some of why I love this game so much -- it deals with topics that are normally left for theologians and philosophers, and it throws in some very well developed characters to play it out.

The idea of free will vs determinism is so much more interesting and emotionally relevant than your typical hero story, especially these days when neuroscience and scientific materialism seem to be bankrupting the idea of free will, leaving nothing but cells and atoms obeying physical laws and consiouness as nothing more than the playback of our brain's deterministic activities.

Thanks WWFGD for making such a great contribution to the compendium!