Diagram for the relationship between CT/CC elements?

[Beauford]

Several weeks ago, I saw a helpful little diagram that put the 4 CT elements and the 6 CC ones in relationship to each other.  I've been searching the forums since then trying to find it again, but no dice.  Does anyone have this image or a link to it?

[BROJ]

Several weeks ago, I saw a helpful little diagram that put the 4 CT elements and the 6 CC ones in relationship to each other.  I've been searching the forums since then trying to find it again, but no dice.  Does anyone have this image or a link to it?

Alas, to the 'Darkness Beyond Time' has gone the page you are searching for; quoth the server: 404...

  Hit me up with a PM and I'll see if I can provide the info you are looking for.

[Kebrel]

404 isn't this it?

[BROJ]

That'll work too... by "404", I meant 'moved from the general public'.

[Kebrel]

Ah I see, this contains no hidden information and was availably before the close, we should assume any information from then is leaked.

[V_Translanka]

Wow, that's incredibly concise & insightful~! Oh, wait, no Lightning!!...dang, so close! >_>

[BROJ]

Wow, that's incredibly concise & insightful~! Oh, wait, no Lightning!!...dang, so close! >_>

<_< Bah! Always forcing me to leak information...

White
components thereof:
Judgement:The ability to convert matter to energy and vice versa.

Flux: The ability to generate a one way connection(flow) between two or more points. Generally skills of this nature generate a 'push' or shockwave.

Seal: The ability to contain aforementioned powers to a specified area to maintain order.


Black
special note: the reason combined elements turn shadow in nature is because the combined elements have lost their individuality or identity and have become chaotic(not defined) in nature.
components thereof:
Corruption: The ability to convert energy or matter from one type(i.e. Red to Yellow, Green to Blue, etc.) to another.

Gravity: the ability to use the antithesis of flux and create a 'tug' to bring something(s)(ex. two points) closer.

Barrier: the ability to repel powers from a certain point.


Red
components thereof:
Disintegration: the ability to break-down a force or entity.

Protection: the ability to prevent specified changes in the structure or nature of an entity by providing an opposing force.


Blue
components thereof:
Integration: the ability to build-up a force or entity.

Alteration: the ability to modify the structure or nature of an entity.


Yellow
components thereof:
Mold: the ability to modify the shape and nature of a force or entity.

Discharge: the ability to transfer systematic anomalies between two or more points.

Fortify: the ability to 'strengthen' a force or entity.


Green
components thereof:
Regulation: the ability to control the power of a force or entity.

Nature: the ability to dictate how an object will and will not change.

You're on notice V!

[Thought]

That's beautiful.

Though to note, V, that since Lightning is a reaction of multiple "elements" interacting with each other (usually earth and sky, in the Real World at least), it makes sense that there is no lightning element (and it is instead contained within others).

[Beauford]

Wow, thanks for responding so quickly and fully.  This stuff is precisely what I was looking for.

[V_Translanka]

Alright, then, in that weird little 'explanation'...how are the Meteorite White Elements explained (especially when you consider Harle's Moon-based Techs are Black)...or how about the fact that apparently vegetation-based Elements (Bushwacker, Bushbasher, & Carnivore) are included with Wind...? And, also, Leah's Tech, TailSpin (an homage to Ayla's own Tail Spin Tech which produced Magic-based damage w/o being Magic), is a wind-based attack, but is Yellow innate...

I think this idea is incomplete or else Chrono Cross's system is just flawed...or maybe the two systems just happen to be TWO SEPERATE CATEGORIES OF MAGICAL POWER~!!!

[BROJ]

Alright, then, in that weird little 'explanation'...how are the Meteorite White Elements explained (especially when you consider Harle's Moon-based Techs are Black)...or how about the fact that apparently vegetation-based Elements (Bushwacker, Bushbasher, & Carnivore) are included with Wind...? And, also, Leah's Tech, TailSpin (an homage to Ayla's own Tail Spin Tech which produced Magic-based damage w/o being Magic), is a wind-based attack, but is Yellow innate...

Meteorite: "Judgement:The ability to convert matter to energy and vice versa."
Vegetation-Based: "Nature: the ability to dictate how an object will and will not change."
Wind-based: "Regulation: the ability to control the power of a force or entity."
Harle
Moon Beams: "Corruption: The ability to convert energy or matter from one type to another."
Moon Shine: "Barrier: the ability to repel powers from a certain point."
Lunalretic: "Corruption: The ability to convert energy or matter from one type to another."

TailSpin: "Mold: the ability to modify the shape and nature of a force or entity.","Fortify: the ability to 'strengthen' a force or entity.","Discharge: the ability to transfer systematic anomalies between two or more points."
To be fair, though, there wasn't many Yellow/Earth element practiced(save Crono's electrics and ironically air slash which is an EFT) along the lines of evocational force transfer(EFT).

Any more? One more V and you'll be dead to me... *wags finger*

I think this idea is incomplete or else Chrono Cross's system is just flawed...or maybe the two systems just happen to be TWO SEPERATE CATEGORIES OF MAGICAL POWER~!!!

Psh... I do these things because I can; plus there's no innate(hehe... I made a pun) validity to considering the two systems as separate either.

[V_Translanka]

So, then, nothing really ties these "Components" together...? I think that's where my main confusion over all of this was coming from...I didn't know it's just you defining the Elements within the various colors...Especially since the definitions seem so vague at times...

Riddel's SnakeSkin seems like it would go under either your "Barrier" or "Protection" definition (I don't know which it defends against).

Luccia's Mix&Match doesn't seem to be defined by any of the Black definitions (or maybe I'm not looking at them vaguely enough...?).

Razzly's Raz-Star seems like it would fall under the definitions you give for the Meteorite-based White Elements.

Orcha's SpiceOfLife is a Red healing Tech (one of the only I remember), which doesn't seem to fit into your definitions.

Your Red needs to integrate either Lucca's HypnoWave or at least Miki's SexyWink.

Speaking of which, Miki's DanceOnAir seems to use air-waves or some such...does that somehow count as 'break-down'...?

MoonShine would be more like "Protection" than "Barrier", though, wouldn't it...? It's for physical attacks, isn't it?

Shouldn't all of Starky's moves be Shadow since they're lasers...? Perhaps it can be written off as "alien technology that works differently from Robo", I guess...

Mojo's Voodoo Dance...?

Funguy's SporeCloud & Myconoids sound more like they'd be more along the lines of your Green's "Nature" definition (although it should be noted that mushrooms aren't plants, I don't know how much that matters).

What about the various TurnColor & AntiColor Elements...?

Which of each color specific definitions defines White's WeakMinded? Yellow's LowRes (or is that part of "Mold"?)? Red's Strengthen, Weaken & NinetyNine? Or Black's Genius, Imbecile, & SealAll?

And what about the Summons...?

There ya go. That's all I got for ya for now (didn't look into Monster Techs).

Psh... I do these things because I can; plus there's no innate(hehe... I made a pun) validity to considering the two systems as separate either.

Besides the facts that we're given them separately, they're explained differently, and act differently.

[ZeaLitY]

Fire + Water = Darkness. Antipode.

Fire + Heaven = Darkness. GatlingKick.

Heaven + Water = Darkness. Final Kick.

Fire + Darkness = Darkness. Omega Flare.

Fire + Water + Heaven = Darkness. Delta Storm, Delta Force, etc.

Fire + Water + Darkness = Darkness. DarkEternal.

~

That covers all the bases except Water + Darkness and Heaven + Darkness.

[BROJ]

I'm going to reply to ZeaLity's first, so don't feel left out V.

Fire + Water = Darkness. Antipode.

Fire + Heaven = Darkness. GatlingKick.

Heaven + Water = Darkness. Final Kick.

Fire + Darkness = Darkness. Omega Flare.

Fire + Water + Heaven = Darkness. Delta Storm, Delta Force, etc.

Fire + Water + Darkness = Darkness. DarkEternal.

~

That covers all the bases except Water + Darkness and Heaven + Darkness.

The system you are describing is analogous to a physically mixed substance in Chemistry or mixing colors in Art(where Shadow would be 'neutral grey'), whereas the creation of Earth/Yellow and Force/Green would be better analogously related to a chemically mixed substance.

So, then, nothing really ties these "Components" together...? I think that's where my main confusion over all of this was coming from...I didn't know it's just you defining the Elements within the various colors...Especially since the definitions seem so vague at times...

Riddel's SnakeSkin seems like it would go under either your "Barrier" or "Protection" definition (I don't know which it defends against).

Luccia's Mix&Match doesn't seem to be defined by any of the Black definitions (or maybe I'm not looking at them vaguely enough...?).

Razzly's Raz-Star seems like it would fall under the definitions you give for the Meteorite-based White Elements.

Orcha's SpiceOfLife is a Red healing Tech (one of the only I remember), which doesn't seem to fit into your definitions.

Your Red needs to integrate either Lucca's HypnoWave or at least Miki's SexyWink.

Speaking of which, Miki's DanceOnAir seems to use air-waves or some such...does that somehow count as 'break-down'...?

MoonShine would be more like "Protection" than "Barrier", though, wouldn't it...? It's for physical attacks, isn't it?

Shouldn't all of Starky's moves be Shadow since they're lasers...? Perhaps it can be written off as "alien technology that works differently from Robo", I guess...

Mojo's Voodoo Dance...?

Funguy's SporeCloud & Myconoids sound more like they'd be more along the lines of your Green's "Nature" definition (although it should be noted that mushrooms aren't plants, I don't know how much that matters).

What about the various TurnColor & AntiColor Elements...?

Which of each color specific definitions defines White's WeakMinded? Yellow's LowRes (or is that part of "Mold"?)? Red's Strengthen, Weaken & NinetyNine? Or Black's Genius, Imbecile, & SealAll?

And what about the Summons...?

There ya go. That's all I got for ya for now (didn't look into Monster Techs).

Psh... I do these things because I can; plus there's no innate(hehe... I made a pun) validity to considering the two systems as separate either.

Besides the facts that we're given them separately, they're explained differently, and act differently.

Okay, the main reason I'm doing yours second is the fact of it's utter convolution and red herring-laden structure(I don't mean this to irk or spite, so don't take it as such). But... *sigh* I do my best in responding.

First issue: all of the elements are different forces, but they are all inseparable in nature as one could not exist without it's partner. Look at it this way(I got this from a little Nagarjuna philosophy reading last night): A walking man and the way to be walking are two completely separate things, right? But they are also in nature inseparable, no? They must be together or neither can exist. There must be balance for there to be existence and there must be a counter-partner if there is a partner. Much like an an observer and the phenomena/object observed cannot be proved without both being there. Actor and action, fuel and fire, (Nagarjuna goes on with others)... So, yes there is "something" that ties them together.

Second:
Snakeskin... I don't think it could go under either because of it's 'partial' block nature(20%phy/25%mag); so that would say to me that matter/energy is being converted at the point of impact so: "Judgement:The ability to convert matter to energy and vice versa."

Handled in a lump:{Mix&Match, SpiceOfLife, HypnoWave, DanceOnAir} are not magic, especially Hypnowave, which in CT, was clearly not marked with a star posterior.

MoonShine would be more like "Protection" than "Barrier", though, wouldn't it...? It's for physical attacks, isn't it?

Magic

Shouldn't all of Starky's moves be Shadow since they're lasers...? Perhaps it can be written off as "alien technology that works differently from Robo", I guess...

Starky's were named as white because he uses clearly defined 'Heaven' energy, in that, his attacks focus on the use and conversion of quantum particles and energy. Lasers as you may well know focus said energy.

Funguy's SporeCloud & Myconoids sound more like they'd be more along the lines of your Green's "Nature" definition (although it should be noted that mushrooms aren't plants, I don't know how much that matters).

If it grows or blows independent of a source it's Force/Green.

What about the various TurnColor & AntiColor Elements...?

Which of each color specific definitions defines White's WeakMinded? Yellow's LowRes (or is that part of "Mold"?)? Red's Strengthen, Weaken & NinetyNine? Or Black's Genius, Imbecile, & SealAll?

And what about the Summons...?

There ya go. That's all I got for ya for now (didn't look into Monster Techs).

Give me a day or two; en garde.

[V_Translanka]

Handled in a lump:{Mix&Match, SpiceOfLife, HypnoWave, DanceOnAir} are not magic, especially Hypnowave, which in CT, was clearly not marked with a star posterior.

Then would you not consider Slash, Flame Toss, & Tail Spin magic? They create magical effects and have innates (or at least correspond to certain Magic damage-types). Why wouldn't those Cross Techs be magic though, especially?

Funguy's SporeCloud & Myconoids sound more like they'd be more along the lines of your Green's "Nature" definition (although it should be noted that mushrooms aren't plants, I don't know how much that matters).

If it grows or blows independent of a source it's Force/Green.

Yeah, okay, but Funguy & his Techs are Yellow innate...Which is why I brought that up...>_>