An Elemental Model for Character Abilities

[Hadriel]

I think it's interesting that Magus can't hurt Lavos right then, but he can later.  What changed?  Perhaps it was the fact that he had Queen Zeal to leech off of, but you can beat Lavos without destroying the Omen.  If, on the other hand, it is true that Lavos was getting pissed off that the Zealians were leeching his power, then he shouldn't have been as strong as normal, and you should have been able to hurt him easily.  Either way, something's wrong here.

Perhaps this Black Wind is involved?

[sarua]

Was magus aviable to kill Lavos with one attack later? imho he was hurting Lavos back then but not seriously. Well if you hit oponent and he doesn`t fall, isn`t bleading and similar things then you think that you wasn`t aviable to hurt him.

[SilentMartyr]

Okay, even if I buy into what Belthasar's saying about Lavos being summoned...That's only about the original, Lavos, timeline. At the very least, when Crono & Co show up, they throw that out the window. The summoning is disrupted and Lavos obviously doesn't appear. In Lavos's place? A giant gate. And also, I don't think the Black Wind is so focused. It isn't something that's just about someone about to die. When he feels it in his castle, who dies there? Himself? Not really...But he is defeated. I don't think that Black Wind=Death. I believe it's more a forwarning of some kind, depending on who senses it and how they sense it.

In Chrono Cross, a 'wind' is mentioned to be around Serge...Damn if I don't have the quote though...It's from the old woman Direa? Well, it's around Serge because he's supposed to be dead in that timeline, but he's not. I don't think there's enough on the Black Wind to be so concretely defined...Or at least, not from just what you're saying of it.

I was unaware of the wind being mentioned in CC. But I have yet to finish the game, so I can't help you with that quote. Okay, I can see how the wind isn't directly related to dying, but it does have to do with death in general. You can not deny that. And I am pretty sure that Lavos does show up at the castle, you can hear it's scream before you are teleported if I am not mistaken.

[razor's edge]

The 'wind' mentioned in Chrono Cross is not necessarily the same as the Black Wind.

And about Magus attacking Lavos, he may have hurt Lavos superficially, but it's pretty obvious that at that point that Lavos can kill them with just one attack(Crono).

[SilentMartyr]

The 'wind' mentioned in Chrono Cross is not necessarily the same as the Black Wind.

And about Magus attacking Lavos, he may have hurt Lavos superficially, but it's pretty obvious that at that point that Lavos can kill them with just one attack(Crono).

I'm sure that it hurt Lavos, but not to the extent that Magus wanted it to. I think he was expecting more of a extreme attack kind of thing.

[sarua]

The 'wind' mentioned in Chrono Cross is not necessarily the same as the Black Wind.

And about Magus attacking Lavos, he may have hurt Lavos superficially, but it's pretty obvious that at that point that Lavos can kill them with just one attack(Crono).

I'm sure that it hurt Lavos, but not to the extent that Magus wanted it to. I think he was expecting more of a extreme attack kind of thing.

Yes, he probably thought that he would seriuosly wound Lavos with one or two spells.
And about wind, imho black wind = something terible might happen. And yes in Chrono Cross someone mentioned that strange wind surrounds Serge

[razor's edge]

The 'wind' mentioned in Chrono Cross is not necessarily the same as the Black Wind.

And about Magus attacking Lavos, he may have hurt Lavos superficially, but it's pretty obvious that at that point that Lavos can kill them with just one attack(Crono).

I'm sure that it hurt Lavos, but not to the extent that Magus wanted it to. I think he was expecting more of a extreme attack kind of thing.

Yes, he probably thought that he would seriuosly wound Lavos with one or two spells.
And about wind, imho black wind = something terible might happen. And yes in Chrono Cross someone mentioned that strange wind surrounds Serge

I don't think the Black Wind and Serge's Wind are the same thing.

It makes sense that the Black Wind could be a 'might, but I would say it's more of a chance than 'might'. Like a sort of 'this bad thing has a 95% chance of happening'.

And Serge's Wind, well he's dead in the world where his 'strange wind' was sensed, so that could just be because he wasn't supposed to exist in Another World.(That was someone in Another World who mentioned it, right?)

[SilentMartyr]

The fortune teller in termina I think mentioned the wind thing.

[razor's edge]

The fortune teller in termina I think mentioned the wind thing.

NOW I remember. Yeah, since Serge was essentially dead in that world, he didn't have a future, so she(the fortune teller) couldn't read it.

[V_Translanka]

No, I wasn't talking about the fortune teller, I was talking about Direa...Damn myself for not bringing my thing of quotes with me! It sounds essentially like the Black Wind though, and it seems like a bit of a coincidence if it's not...Ah hell...I'll get to it sometime...

[razor's edge]

But the Black Wind is only mentioned in CT when there's a really good chance of someone (or many someones, in the case of Zeal) dying. In CC, Serge is technically already dead in Another World.

[SilentMartyr]

No, I wasn't talking about the fortune teller, I was talking about Direa...Damn myself for not bringing my thing of quotes with me! It sounds essentially like the Black Wind though, and it seems like a bit of a coincidence if it's not...Ah hell...I'll get to it sometime...

How far into the game is that part? I am right after defeating Miguel, and If it is coming up I'll look for the quote for you.

[Chrono'99]

No, I wasn't talking about the fortune teller, I was talking about Direa...Damn myself for not bringing my thing of quotes with me! It sounds essentially like the Black Wind though, and it seems like a bit of a coincidence if it's not...Ah hell...I'll get to it sometime...

How far into the game is that part? I am right after defeating Miguel, and If it is coming up I'll look for the quote for you.

Direa says it when you first meet her I think. So you might have already passed this event, I don't know.

But the Black Wind is only mentioned in CT when there's a really good chance of someone (or many someones, in the case of Zeal) dying. In CC, Serge is technically already dead in Another World.

The Black Wind blows because someone is gonna die, and Serge's wind blows because Serge died... The two winds seem really too close to be just a coincidence...

[V_Translanka]

Hmm? There is an odd wind that is whirling about. I have heard that such wind-bearers appear at times, but...

Ta-da! I brought my damn quotes with me this time! Yeah, it's pretty vague...But nothing in CT clearly states what the Black Wind is, does, or is for really...

And, just for kicks, here's an alternate translation from when Magus confronts Ozzie later on in Ozzie's own castle...

Do you hear that sound around you? It's the sound of the Black Wind...

Now, here's the changed version from the regular translation that uses "The Reaper" instead of the Black Wind...

Say, can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper...

I think the English translation implies that the Black Wind is a messanger of death, but the original really still sounds as if it's a possibility of death...Although, in the end, Ozzie doesn't die...

[razor's edge]

We don't know whether Ozzie dies at his own castle...he may have already had a kid.

Although he shows up at the Bend of Time in CC, but I don't think that proves he's still alive, since that place is screwy anyway.