Video Game Discussion Thread

[Nexus]

I found an interesting link when searching for a Final Fantasy X and VII connection

http://faqs.ign.com/articles/702/702971p1.html

****Translations concerning the plot-related connection between FFVII and
FFX/X-2**** (005)
As some fans of Final Fantasy VII, X and X-2 may or may not know, the worlds
of the two games share a plot-related connection. The connection's existance
was established during an interview with Yoshinori Kitase (lead developer of
the Final Fantasy series) and Kazushige Nojima (the scenario writer of Final
Fantasy VII, Before Crisis, Advent Children, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy
X, Final Fantasy X-2 and the Kingdom Hearts series) in 2002, as featured in
the Final Fantasy X Ultimania Omega guidebook, an official Square-Enix
publication.

This interview established that there would be a connection between the two
worlds, though it didn't detail it. However, based on what was later revealed
to be the connection, it's clear that it had already been conceived, as
Kitase hints at it with his final word on the subject. In 2003, the exact
nature of the concept was finally revealed in the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania,
having been hinted toward by a few elements of the game.

Nojima revealed that Shinra of the Gullwings, an Al Bhed child prodigy and
inventor of various machinery, would attempt using the remains of Vegnagun --
the behemoth machina Shuyin tried to destroy Spira with -- to extract life
energy from the Farplane and use it to power machines. Shinra would attempt
doing this as a result of his analysis of the Farplane late in the game.
During this diagnostic, Shinra concluded that there was a great deal of energy
floating around inside the Farplane, and that it was most likely the life
force of Spira, which could be extracted and used as a power source; however,
he concluded that it would take generations to properly implement the idea.

Further of note is that Nojima explained that the Al Bhed entrepeneur Rin also
was interested in extracting mako from the Farplane, and that he provided
Shinra with the funding to make the attempt. For his part, Rin's desire to do
this is revealed during the game should he be uncovered as the culprit behind
covering up the malfunctioning machina disaster on the Mi'hen Highroad.

Nojima went on to say that Shinra's attempts to use Vegnagun's remains failed
and that he was unable to complete the concept of mako-extraction, just as
Shinra had predicted. However, some 1000 years later, once space travel became
possible, Shinra's descendants would go on a voyage to the world of Final
Fantasy VII. There, at some point in the future, they would be successful in
utilizing the concept, and would provide electricity from the Planet for a
price; these descendants would found the Shin-Ra Company of Final Fantasy VII.

The connection would again be hinted toward in the Final Fantasy X-2:
International+Last Mission (released in 2004) game's Last Mission scenario, in
which Rikku revealed that Rin and Shinra had begun working together. Finally,
the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega guidebook (released in 2005) also brings
forth mention of the concept.

I will here present the dialogue from Final Fantasy X-2 that hints at the
connection, as well as the interviews and other translations that establish
its existance as part of official Final Fantasy continuity.

***Dialogue with Rin from Final Fantasy X-2***
Rin
"You are suggesting that my decision to upgrade the machina resulted in a
number of casualties... ... and that I tried to cover it up?"

Yuna
"You put the investigation in our hands because we were amateurs. You hoped we
would botch the case."

Yuna
"And then, I kept calling you even though I didn't have any leads."

Yuna
"You would have objected to the meaningless interruptions, if you really
wanted to solve the case."

Rin
"I see. It appears that I have underestimated you, Yuna."

Rikku
"Why, Rin?"

Rin
"If word got out that machina pose a danger, people would fear them and stop
using them."

Paine
"So Yevon's not alone in sweeping things under the rug."

Rin
"I firmly believe that machina are an indispensable part of Spira's
development."

Rin
"Even if there is another incident, I intend to conceal the evidence."

Yuna
"You really think people will follow you that way?"

Rin
"I am not alone in my thinking."

Rin
"We are researching ways to extract the vast energy that sleeps in Spira, and
use it to power machina."

Paine
"You're a jackass."

Rin
"I will take that as a compliment."



***Dialogue with Shinra from Final Fantasy X-2***
Shinra
"Aha..."

Yuna
"What are you looking at?"

Shinra
"Farplane data."

Shinra
"The more I study it, the more fascinating it gets. There's limitless energy
swirling around in there."

Yuna
"Limitless energy?"

Shinra
"The life force that flows through our planet...I think."

Shinra
"With a little work, we could probably extract the energy in a useable form."

Brother
"Sweet!"

Shinra
"Of course, that'd take generations."

Brother
"That's no fun!"

Buddy
"Well, still, it is something worth shooting for."

Yuna
"Think how much Spira would change if we ever got it to work!"

Yuna
"Maybe one day we could build a city full of light, one that never sleeps!"

Shinra
"No doubt about it."



***Dialogue with Rikku from Final Fantasy X-2: International+Last Mission***
Paine
"These days, people are always looking for sunken machina."

Rikku
"Yup-yup!"

Yuna
"Oh? Has Shinra been helping you with that?"

Rikku
"Ahh, now that you bring it up..."

Rikku
"Well, he left the ship and got together with Rin, and what do you think all
that research they've been doing is about?"




***Interview with Yoshinori Kitase and Kazushige Nojima in the Final Fantasy X
Ultimania Omega*** (Page 191)
**FFVII and FFX are connected?!**
--"Previously, with a conversation in the FFX Scenario Ultimania, you made
certain inferences, and since it's been about half a year since then, is there
anything new you'd like to clarify about FFX?"

Kitase
"That's true...... Now that FFX International is out and we're in the future,
I'm in a predicament; it really isn't that hard to think of another story
[set] in that world; room for expansion was left possible there without too
much difficulty, don't you think? Speaking conversely, FFX received a splendid
reception and made us think of adding to it."

Nojima
"After FFVII was finished, we were easily able to add Zack's open[-ended role]
into the International version. But, with X, there was an older story with a
partly-finished world and an opening that this new one could be added to and
[, in doing] so[,] complete it."

Kitase
"So, you could say [in terms of] time, Nojima-san decided to designate it to
act as a sequel to VII, if you follow me."


--"It's a sequel to VII!!"

Kitase
"Well, there was a joke right there. Simply put, in VII's ending, Holy came,
and the next thing you knew, it was over without closing things up, and then
it was the "500 years later" [scene] in the future. There's a large margin
buried there. A margin for the imagination. Nojima-san and Toriyama are going
to be filling something of that with VII, though, while they're at their best
and can do it."


--"So, will it become a sequel to VII's story?"

Nojima
"I have a strong feeling that they're going to be connected."


--"Huh, so VII and X ARE connected?"

Nojima
"Well, there's not many specifics to it. I know that what becomes of people
when they die is among them; you could say that it's basically the same. Both
[concepts came to] function along the same line of thought as I wrote the
stories. Sometimes my thoughts just flow out like that, even though pyreflies
distinctly aren't green."


--"When you speak of the dead becoming [something] green, do you perhaps
[mean]......?"

Nojima
"Yes. In my mind, pyreflies and VII's Lifestream are the same substance."

Kitase
"Nojima-san's even considering making use of an idea like this -- [with] an
addition to the idea of life origin -- in a sequel to FFX International.
That's just a little bit of the thought that's been going into what to do with
VII."

Nojima
"That's right. There's something like the Lifestream [in X's world
also]......."


--"'An addition to the idea of life origin'......does that mean you're going
to revise life origin concepts or something?"

Nojima
"I can't say......it's a secret (laughs)."

Kitase
"It's a surprise with how someone from the story conducts theirself with
regards to the Farplane."



***Interview with FFX-2 creators from the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania***
(Page 723)
**"So, what of this child, Shinra......"**
--"Among these latest stories, 'connected' is one of the key words becoming
applicable, isn't it?"

[Daisuke] Watanabe
"I personally like the word 'connected,' but there's one aspect where that
applies well."

Nojima
"During the game's progression, various vague things will be tied together to
reveal it."


--"For example, the name 'Shinra' suggests a connection with VII? There's
[what's said] in the 'Graduation Mission' scenario [ -- 'graduation'
referring to Shinra being soon to leave the Gullwings -- ], and the 'I am not
alone in my thinking' line from the 'Rin's Detective Work' scenario seems to
have some particular significance."

Nojima
"Actually, it does. After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous
financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako
Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for
utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to
distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another
world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after
this story, I think."


--"So VII's story is after that?"

Nojima
"Well, you could say the feelings I have are like that. When I think about the
characters, those are the kinds of feelings I already have. Shinra is a good
child, but his descendants are going to end up becoming like the president [of
Shin-Ra] (laughs)."

Watanabe
"With you said about VII, after seeing your episodes with Shinra, one of the
people on the [development] staff said that the first shot of the Bevelle
Underground 'gives the impression of somewhere else.'"

[Motomu] Toriyama
"Certainly; it looks like the opening shot of Midgar in VII."



***Information on Shinra of the Gullwings in the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
Omega*** (Page 563)
Shinra is a boy who supports the Gullwings, the group which the main
protagonist, Yuna, belongs to. He carries a name that gives him an association
to the Shin-Ra Company, and he is researching a method that could utilize the
energy of "the life force that flows through our planet." The results of this
cannot be seen in FFX-2, but maybe one day his descendants will establish a
"company that supplies the energy of the planet"?

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
The words of Shinra, which can be heard at the end of the story. This world
has something similar to the Lifestream that is worthy of attention.



***Interview with FFVII creators from the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
Omega*** (Page 571)
--"At E3 (the world's largest game show, which was held in America), as a demo
for the PS3, the opening of FFVII was shown; was its purpose to serve as
something of a preliminary announcement?

Kitase
"Well, in regard to that, please think of it as a mere demonstration. Because
the production period for its imagery was [going to be] so short, we made the
opening of FFVII, as it was easy to represent. Beyond that, there is no
particular deeper meaning.


--"In that case, it's not a remake; when might you be making something to
serve as the direct continuation of FFX-2?"

Kitase
"Producing something like that holds the same problem as a remake [of FFVII],
as our schedule just isn't open for it [right now]."

It is interesting though it makes you wonder if they really had any reason to make such a connection.

[Acacia Sgt]

Interesting, but if they really are connected by that way, then they would have to rewrite VII's background in many ways.

[chrono eric]

Why? I haven't played VII for years, but couldn't the humans in VII's world have come from X's world? Why couldn't they? All the info you are given about VII's backstory is that there were once Ancient's 2000 years ago - then Jenova came - then Meteor came and bad shit happened - then 2000 years later you have humans running things and Mako reactors everywhere. I admittedly haven't seen or played any of the "sequels" to VII, so maybe I don't know the whole story that they fleshed out though.

[Acacia Sgt]

You ignorant traitor. I'll tell you. This was an itinerant race.
They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on… At the end of their
harsh, hard journey, they would find the Promised Land and supreme happiness.
But, those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an
easier life. They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without
giving back one whit in return! Those are your ancestors.

Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They
survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After
that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is
in these reports.

VII had all of it's people as descendants of the Cetra who went against their current way of life.

How does Shinra's descendants fit into this? They can't be the Cetra do they?

[HyperNerd]

It is possible that the books Sephiroth read were wrong. Or he was just crazy and assumed these things. It never shows for sure.

[Sintu]

You ignorant traitor. I'll tell you. This was an itinerant race.
They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on… At the end of their
harsh, hard journey, they would find the Promised Land and supreme happiness.
But, those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an
easier life. They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without
giving back one whit in return! Those are your ancestors.

Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They
survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After
that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is
in these reports.

VII had all of it's people as descendants of the Cetra who went against their current way of life.

How does Shinra's descendants fit into this? They can't be the Cetra do they?

I'm not seeing how that contradicts anything.

[Acacia Sgt]

It states all the people of the planet were the Cetra, then at one point some of them stopped being Cetra, changing they ways of life and all that.

If Shinra's descendants arrived to an unpopulated planet, then that means they are the first Cetra.

Clearly, the intentions of the Cetra aren't the same ones as of Shinra's descendants.

And Hyper, who says it's wrong, or that he was making that up? True, errors like thinking Jenova was a Cetra are corrected later, but nothing is said about the Cetra in what Sephiroth was talking about.

[Vehek]

I think one theory is that Shinra's descendents came to Gaia and convinced some of the Cetra to settle down.

[chrono eric]

You ignorant traitor. I'll tell you. This was an itinerant race.
They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on… At the end of their
harsh, hard journey, they would find the Promised Land and supreme happiness.
But, those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an
easier life. They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without
giving back one whit in return! Those are your ancestors.

Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They
survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After
that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is
in these reports.

VII had all of it's people as descendants of the Cetra who went against their current way of life.

How does Shinra's descendants fit into this? They can't be the Cetra do they?

I don't see why the Cetra couldn't be Shinra's descendents. After all the Mako technology wasn't reinvented/rediscovered or whatever until 2000 years after the events that wiped out the Ancients. Why couldn't the Cetra be the people of Spira after they left that world in search of a new one, and among those people were the descendents of Shinra. Eventually there could have been disagreements among them, with Shinra's descendents deciding to settle down and abandon the constant migration.

[Acacia Sgt]

That's just it. Shinra's descendants already had the idea of using Mako, how come they also wanted a life of migrating forever looking for a land they would one day reach? Or, are you telling me the plans of President Shinra to use the Mako of the Promised Land came from their minds, which is why they tolerated the Cetra's way of life for several centuries?

[chrono eric]

Well, how about this? I don't know if this is a particularly plausible scenario or not but here goes:

Well, we know from FF X that they could use the energy from the Farplane to extract Mako from it, similar to the Lifestream in FF VII. What if they originally made the same mistakes on Spira that they would make millennia later on FF VII's world? What if they exhausted the planet of it's energy and had to leave in search of another world suitable for habitation. They stumble across a world that they can extract Mako from and an argument erupts between people - should we settle here and destroy this world as well, repeating the same mistakes but not having to migrate for a few hundred years - or should we continue on? Catastrophe strikes the world, rendering the argument moot. Millennia later the technology of Mako extraction is rediscovered, Midgar is created, and people start draining the planet of its' energy again.

[Acacia Sgt]

Could work, it will explain why they moved from Spira. But an argument?

That's what I meant about rewriting VII's background. The Cetra never had the method or idea of extracting Mako, which the people of Spira would had they done that there.

Also, the Cetra spent centuries before the smallest signs of people wanting to stop their tradition would appear. I'm sure the Cetra's migration happened within the planet, so for an argument to occur when they arrived, they must have come to the planet in the first place.

Is there any way to tell if the Cetra arrived from outer space or originated in the planet.

If they want to add all that to connect the games, then they have to rewrite the Cetra's background.

[chrono eric]

Is there any way to tell if the Cetra arrived from outer space or originated in the planet.

Well I think this quote heavily implies this:

They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on….

Don't you think?

[Acacia Sgt]

However, if they migrate from planet to planet, then the disaster that struck the planet wouldn't have killed the Cetra, since they would have moved away long before.

[chrono eric]

But wasn't this time unique? Didn't Jenova arriving cause absolute mayhem, forcing the Ancients to summon Meteor? Or do I have that backwards? I forget.