Author Topic: Video Game Discussion Thread  (Read 246336 times)

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1905 on: January 16, 2011, 01:38:09 am »
On top of all that, SE publicly complained about how "hard" it is to make a game on current gen HD capable consoles. I can understand a tiny fledgeling company, or an individual person saying something like that. But Square Enix? They're big and experienced. ALL they do is make games. Everybody complains about their jobs, but not everybody feels the need to tell the press. I'm sorry about the rant, but that still irks me. I took it as another excuse why we can't have more Chrono games. :(

Lennis

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1906 on: January 16, 2011, 05:24:34 am »
Actually, SE isn't just a game company anymore.  They're something of a media conglomerate, with a manga publishing division that has also branched out into anime - not including the two Final Fantasy films that were produced in-house.  The following is from Wikipedia:

The business model of Square Enix is centered on the idea of "polymorphic content", which consists in developing franchises on all potential hardware or media rather than being restricted by a single gaming platform.  An early example of this strategy is Enix's Fullmetal Alchemist manga series, which has been adapted into two anime TV series, a movie and several novels and video games. Other polymorphic projects include Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, Code Age, World of Mana, Ivalice Alliance and Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy XIII. According to Yoichi Wada, "it's very difficult to hit the jackpot, as it were. Once we've hit it, we have to get all the juice possible out of it".

The company also has a manga publishing division in Japan (originally from Enix) called Gangan Comics, which publishes content for the Japanese market only. Titles published by Gangan Comics include Black God, Papuwa, Pani Poni, Spiral, He is My Master, Yumekui Kenbun, Doubt, Bamboo Blade, Pandora Hearts. Black Butler, Soul Eater, Zombie Loan, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. Other titles include manga adaptations of diverse Square Enix games, like Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts and Star Ocean. Some of these titles have also been adapted into anime series.

Fullmetal Alchemist so far is the most successful offspring of Square Enix's manga branch, with more than 30 million volumes sold in Japan alone. The anime series obtained great popularity and even spawned a movie sequel. Both series and movie are licensed to many locations worldwide (in North America by FUNimation Entertainment). The same occurs with its manga series, licensed in North America by Viz Media. Kingdom Hearts and Spiral were licensed in North America by Tokyopop; Tokyopop dropped Spiral, but the title was later licensed again by Hachette's Yen Press, which has licensed other Square Enix titles including Soul Eater, Bamboo Blade and Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. Other titles like Soul Eater, Sekirei, Bamboo Blade and Shikabane Hime also were adapted to TV and licensed to other countries, including a second Fullmetal Alchemist anime series which debuted on Japanese television in 2009 and America on Adult Swim in 2010.



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On top of all that, SE publicly complained about how "hard" it is to make a game on current gen HD capable consoles.

This is one of the reasons why the video-game industry is in such deep trouble.  For example, Gran Turismo 5, which was in development for about five years and cost over $60 million to produce, included high-res textures and cockpit views on only about ¼ of the total available cars to drive.  Over 700 of the cars had PS2-era textures.  Now while the game was excellent overall, that kind of thing really makes you take notice.  How much more money would it have taken to properly render all 1,000 cars?  It's very sobering.  The video-game industry may have become a victim of its own success, with consumers expecting a quantum-leap in performance and graphical capabilities with each successive generation of hardware.  But creating the hardware to meet consumers expectations is no longer the big hurdle it once was.  Things have advanced to the point where companies are finding they can no longer afford to produce games that can take advantage of today's awesome hardware – or at least not to its fullest.

I feel the need to amend my earlier post, now that I've thought about things more clearly.  Certainly, a lot of problems have been caused by ignorant executives making poor decisions, but I also believe a select few have seen the writing on the wall and just aren't sure what to do about it.  If game-companies can't maximize the potential of the current generation of hardware, what hope is there for a PS4, or a new X-Box?  The 1990's was an age where everything was cutting-edge and developers were always expanding the limits of what a game could do.  Those days are over.  The development costs have become too high.  I fear the 2010's will become an era of scaling-back expectations, and that true AAA titles outside of an unexpected niche will become exceedingly rare.  Can the industry survive that?  In a word: no.  The market will shrink so much in this decade that I don't think any of us will recognize it by 2020.

Video-games will never go away completely, but they will become divided between cheap casual entertainment and ultra-expensive bachelor's toys.  Remember the Neo-Geo?  For those of you who weren't around in those days, the Neo-Geo was the absolute top-of-the-line gaming console you could buy – essentially a 1990's arcade machine reduced to console size.  That system cost $700, and the games alone cost upwards of $200. (And that was in 1990's dollars!)  For fans of the cutting edge, that is what we are looking at, and it's frankly a wonder it hasn't happened already.  Video-game production costs have skyrocketed while the prices for those games – considering inflation – haven't gone up that much.  That is not a sustainable business model, and I think that's why Square/Enix is spinning its wheels on the subject of giving us the games we really want.  The industry has reached a dangerous crossroads: Either the quality of the games go down to maintain profitability (as we have already seen), or prices go up.  There's no escaping it.  How much can the industry jack prices before pulling the rug out from consumers and triggering a mass-exodus from gaming?  How much can the industry sacrifice quality before causing the same?  It's a bad situation any way you look at it.

Magus22

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1907 on: January 16, 2011, 05:41:33 am »
...Which is why milking new games with extra DLC, that already should have been in the game to begin with, could explain the need for companies to short-hand the consumer in the shameful attempt at acquiring a greater profit to cover their heavy expenses. It's a great way to swindel the ever-increasing younger generation of gamers, and so far, it has been working. The DLC era may even be an enormous bank heist.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1908 on: January 16, 2011, 05:59:31 am »
The fact that game companies don't know what consumers want does not equate to the claim that they can not give us what we want. They can, they just don't "get it".

I don't care about graphics. I care about being able to fall into a good story, having a little say in how it pans out(being able to explore and interact), and having some fun in the process. I don't want new battle systems if it means the game will be less fun to play. My point is that if so much money is being poured into these games, and they aren't faring well, that's all the more reason to scale back to the old, working formula.

Don't fix what isn't broken. They looked at previous versions of Final Fantasy and said "well, clearly this is all garbage and we should start from scratch." It's unnecessary and inefficient at best.

If the big companies go out of business, maybe they deserve it (no less than any other failing business venture) and that clears more floor space for indie developers to get a little praise.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 06:02:50 am by Mr Bekkler »

Lennis

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1909 on: January 16, 2011, 07:18:45 pm »
...Which is why milking new games with extra DLC, that already should have been in the game to begin with, could explain the need for companies to short-hand the consumer in the shameful attempt at acquiring a greater profit to cover their heavy expenses. It's a great way to swindel the ever-increasing younger generation of gamers, and so far, it has been working. The DLC era may even be an enormous bank heist.

Yeah, the "hidden expenses" business model disgusts me.  Game companies should be more open about development costs so we don't find out about them second-hand.  Otherwise, it just looks like a money-grab.  I'm not sure how we can persuade them to stop, though - aside from not buying their products.  How do you prove that a company is delibrately churning out an incomplete product and yet charge full-price for it?  Legally, it would be difficult.

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I don't care about graphics. I care about being able to fall into a good story, having a little say in how it pans out(being able to explore and interact), and having some fun in the process. I don't want new battle systems if it means the game will be less fun to play. My point is that if so much money is being poured into these games, and they aren't faring well, that's all the more reason to scale back to the old, working formula.

Don't fix what isn't broken. They looked at previous versions of Final Fantasy and said "well, clearly this is all garbage and we should start from scratch." It's unnecessary and inefficient at best.

Indeed, scaling-back graphics in exchange for content is a possible solution, but the gaming press won't look very kindly on it.  Some reviewers will see a great game for what it is regardless of the technical specs, and others will blast anything that isn't a clear evolution from what came before.  Of course, the more likely explanation is one of pride.  Developers always want to be trying something new and don't like to be told “Stick with this system”.  After all, what do we know?  We don't make the games, we just play them.  :(

Samopoznanie

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1910 on: January 17, 2011, 01:16:36 am »
Sorry to break up an engaging conversation, but...

I just managed to snag a copy of Xenogears on eBay for $29.99 (plus $4.00 shipping) from a vendor with 100% feedback.  Score!  It was closer to $80 at my local game store, and the average eBay price was closer to $50-$60.  :D

I've never played the game before, despite being a Chrono fan since '95. Mind you, at that time I was what, 11 years old? Wasn't exactly searching the credits for Kato's name, so I only found out about the connections when I found this site, after the DS release of CT. Looking forward to checking it out, given its reputation among fans... even if the second disc is apparently a bit hurried. Question is, will it be better than Chrono Cross...

ZealKnight

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1911 on: January 17, 2011, 09:16:48 pm »
You guys know Square Enix came out and said what went wrong right?

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1912 on: January 17, 2011, 09:37:38 pm »
So that's what it was, lack of unified vision. Pressure from the committee of leader-men to get the game out "on time" anyway. Why make obscure pointless deadlines if it works adversely on the quality of your product, and worse, why stick to them when you see what you're doing isn't getting finished on time?

I'll leave the subject alone now.

skylark

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1913 on: January 17, 2011, 11:50:00 pm »
So that's what it was, lack of unified vision. Pressure from the committee of leader-men to get the game out "on time" anyway. Why make obscure pointless deadlines if it works adversely on the quality of your product, and worse, why stick to them when you see what you're doing isn't getting finished on time?

I'll leave the subject alone now.

I want to say the whiner/complainer/otaku fandom, but I'm more than likely wrong.

I kinda wonder which is worse, though. The fan wank or the companies? :?

Magus22

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1914 on: January 18, 2011, 12:15:11 am »
Sorry to break up an engaging conversation, but...

I just managed to snag a copy of Xenogears on eBay for $29.99 (plus $4.00 shipping) from a vendor with 100% feedback.  Score!  It was closer to $80 at my local game store, and the average eBay price was closer to $50-$60.  :D

Not bad! Although it is coming to PSN, I would rather have the original disc-based copy too.

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After the game's release, Square Enix has revealed that Final Fantasy XIII's development was a difficult one and ridden with miscommunication between different sections of the development team. Final Fantasy XIII had the largest development team of any previous Final Fantasy game, with some of the work also done in conjunction with the Final Fantasy Versus XIII team. According to the October 2010 issue of Game Developer magazine, a big problem during the game's development was the lack of unified vision.

They knew about the issues in advance, but chose to release it anyways. I would have hated to have been the Project Manager after the reviews and feedback came back to the headquarters...

ShinGundam

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1915 on: January 18, 2011, 06:15:09 am »
FFXIII-2




Romana

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Kodokami

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ShinGundam

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1918 on: January 18, 2011, 12:37:52 pm »
All trailers here from fan event
FFXIII-2 this year (JPN) on PS360
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgOKJ5Cjq70

Versus XIII from Kingdom hearts team on PS3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A0AU1eNSXk

Type0 on PSP (2 UMDs) this summer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC5P3Jxvtzg

Anyone has Dissidia's trailer?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 12:41:30 pm by ShinGundam »

ZealKnight

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Re: Video Game Discussion Thread
« Reply #1919 on: January 18, 2011, 06:45:29 pm »
XIII-2 although this is premature looks EXACTLY like Western bait right now. I don't like Lightning outfit. (Although, I'm more of a fan of the half scifi and half fantasy setting that 13, 7, and 8 were in) All over just looks like a Fan Fic taken too far. I'm pretty sure Final Fantasy is dead now... Although Type-0 is awesome. Glad that's separate from FNC. But do they really expect it to be so good that it can have 3 sequels already? And of course Dissidia is always welcome in my book, especially with Gilgamesh in the 'mesh' hehehe puns. vs13 looks like KH nothing more or less. Instantly disappoints me. Why not drop 13 and try to make a completely new story and characters to wipe our minds of the last two bad memories.