If you had to...

[CelestialPhantasm]

I like what they're doing in Kajar with Glenn at Magus' death in the Schala hack. Where he finds that the joy he was chasing in killing Magus wasn't there to begin with.

The Other Promise from Kingdom Hearts 2 comes to mind.

Oh, that sounds really out of character.  It never seemed to me like Frog was under the illusion of having the "thrill of the hunt".  He pursued Magus to avenge his best friend, and to defend his Queen, King, and homeland- all of which should still have meaning later on.  Once you find out about Lavos and Magus' motivations, it doesn't make much sense to kill him.

[Shadow D. Darkman]

Precisely. And, the "no joy" thing comes after he has killed Magus. I follow canon and recruit him.

[CelestialPhantasm]

So you mean you like it in the sense that if you did kill Magus, it would indicate that Glenn's character was actually petty and shortsighted and the Schala hack explores realistically this version of Glenn? Hmm...

It would have been funny if could choose not to fight Magus, and then also choose not to let him in your party. 

"Let me come with you"
"No."
"Why not?"
"Because we don't like you"
"But you need my knowledge, I can help you save Crono."
"Nah, we'll figure it out somehow. Later"
"...!"

And he just stands there lonesomely on the cape, thinking about what to do next...

[mav]

Just because Magus wasn't filling out some personal vendetta doesn't make his action any less reprehensible: Frog was haunted by Magus's actions, to kill him solves nothing in the end, but Frog's guilt can essentially be squandered away. If Frog realizes the futility of killing Magus, then he really shouldn't bother killing him--it's a combination of guilt, vengeance, and justice that drives Frog...I really don't know why we used the word joy, it doesn't seem to fit Frog's character.

[Shadow D. Darkman]

So you mean you like it in the sense that if you did kill Magus, it would indicate that Glenn's character was actually petty and shortsighted and the Schala hack explores realistically this version of Glenn? Hmm...

It would have been funny if could choose not to fight Magus, and then also choose not to let him in your party. 

...

And he just stands there lonesomely on the cape, thinking about what to do next...

Actually, they follow the script, but he never offers to accompany if you chose to have Schala use Marle's pendant to warp everyone out. He just stays there, and leaves after you do. Then you get the opportunity to recruit Schala.

You can find it, as I have said, in Kajar. The thread is Chrono Trigger - Schala Project (Community Project)

[mav]

Eh, we replaced joy with justice--because you both brought up some good points. Like Shadow said, he realized that there was no "joy" in defeating Magus, but he only noted it after he already defeated him. But like Phantasm said, why would Frog be in it for the hunt? Ultimately, I think it came down to the joy of "justice" being served through Magus's death...since that'd sound kinda shitty in a script, Frog just notes that the justice is ruined.

[V_Translanka]

After Magus tells his story, there's really no good reason to fight him. In the end, he was fighting for the greater good, regardless of his own personal reasons for doing so. His actions in 600AD were of small consequence compared to his ultimate goals. If looked upon in that way, Cyrus & Glenn were the ones in the wrong for all of humanity, though they couldn't have known, they were merely fighting for their kingdom. If you choose to fight him on the Cape, you're basically only doing so because of his words against Crono...and that too I don't think is good enough reason. Magus is basically condemning Crono for his failure to defeat Lavos and dying at his hands...but I think that it's also Magus not wanting to admit that he too failed (and perhaps even realizes that he would have failed in 600AD) and is simply lashing out in anger. In fact, at that point, it's easy for the party (Glenn included, if not especially because of his empathy), to pity him somewhat...

[HyperNerd]

Sorry for being off topic here, but what the Hell SHADOW? We can never tell with you. You hate people who don't like spoilers, but you agree with the guy who doesn't like spoilers? What the hell man??

[mav]

Er?

After Magus tells his story, there's really no good reason to fight him. In the end, he was fighting for the greater good, regardless of his own personal reasons for doing so. His actions in 600AD were of small consequence compared to his ultimate goals. If looked upon in that way, Cyrus & Glenn were the ones in the wrong for all of humanity, though they couldn't have known, they were merely fighting for their kingdom. If you choose to fight him on the Cape, you're basically only doing so because of his words against Crono...and that too I don't think is good enough reason. Magus is basically condemning Crono for his failure to defeat Lavos and dying at his hands...but I think that it's also Magus not wanting to admit that he too failed (and perhaps even realizes that he would have failed in 600AD) and is simply lashing out in anger. In fact, at that point, it's easy for the party (Glenn included, if not especially because of his empathy), to pity him somewhat...

Well put, well put. Looking at it from Frog's point of view, the only reason to kill Magus was because of an honor code: killing Magus would be retribution for Cyrus's death ("Cyrus, I hath avenged thee"). I'm sure Frog realizes the futility of this action at this point because, like you said, Magus had a goal that encompassed a far greater consequence than anything Frog had. A lot of Magus's statements sounded quite bitter: "You got whacked, 'cuz you're weak", "Play with fire and you get burned", etc, and I personally believe it's all out of some personal guilt...

[Shadow D. Darkman]

Magus: Play with fire and you get burned!
A lesson learned sooner than later.
The weak go quickly to their graves.

It's funny how they kept the "play with fire and you get burned" line.

[Lord J Esq]

Of 48 votes presently, 30 are for the three female characters and 18 are for the four male ones. That's 63 percent, when, if all the characters were equal (which they are obviously not), it should be closer to 43 percent. Additionally, this community is overwhelmingly male. Anecdotally, the most derogatory comments in this thread were almost invariable directed against either the female characters or Magus. Quite fascinating. I think this poll has inadvertently sampled an undercurrent of sexism among the members of this community.

For what it's worth, I voted against Magus. Going by the story, it's the only choice. Crono himself would probably be next on the list. None of the others could be sacrificed without completely changing the nature of the game.

Lastly, somewhat casually, I think that "mary sue" does not mean what many of you think it means...

[FaustWolf]

Anecdotally, the most derogatory comments in this thread were almost invariable directed against either the female characters or Magus. Quite fascinating.

Could it actually be that Compendium members have something against long hair? The "which Chrono character would you date?" thread has Lucca in top place, showing that there's quite a bit of respect for women with brains. Either that, or there's a lot of fetishizing of brainiacs. Whichever of those two is most likely to be invoked in a dating poll I guess.

Separating this poll from the rest of your observations for a moment, would there not also be a subtle sexism in holding back criticism of female characters, essentially giving them a privileged "pass" precisely because they're female? So long as the character was booted for real character flaws and her gender didn't factor into the decision, I wouldn't consider it sexist.

On the contrary, I'd propose that if the female Chrono Trigger characters are perceived as being more flawed than the male characters in general, this may be a reflection of sexism on the part of the scenario writers and not the fans. As a hypothetical example, suppose the writers imbued Marle with misconceived notions of femininity, making her screamy, physically weak and a healer (...oh), so that she could contrast a muscle-bound, silent love interest capable of immense destruction. Players might dislike Marle precisely because they, having been raised in an environment shaped by the feminist movement, think Marle is a poor role model for women.

That example aside, I do think the CT developers did fair job writing the women given the production team's technical and design restrictions. Lucca was especially fantastic. My only complaint would be that Ayla is oversexualized; but even then, her strength made the player respect her, and she displays pretty deep wisdom given her origins.

[x_XTacTX_x]

That example aside, I do think the CT developers did fair job writing the women given the production team's technical and design restrictions. Lucca was especially fantastic. My only complaint would be that Ayla is oversexualized; but even then, her strength made the player respect her, and she displays pretty deep wisdom given her origins.

It's all good fun to have an oversexualized character in some stories. It's not anything sexist,  the "Sexy Scantily-Clad Asskicker" archetype is actually moreso putting women above the level of men, if anything.

[ONSLAUGHT]

Things that sell well.
Sex
Asskicking
Simple
A blend of dim and bright
Bloody

Ayla fits most of that(just not the last one). No one's sexist against Ayla at all! She's pimped out!

[Lord J Esq]

Anecdotally, the most derogatory comments in this thread were almost invariable directed against either the female characters or Magus. Quite fascinating.

Could it actually be that Compendium members have something against long hair? The "which Chrono character would you date?" thread has Lucca in top place, showing that there's quite a bit of respect for women with brains. Either that, or there's a lot of fetishizing of brainiacs. Whichever of those two is most likely to be invoked in a dating poll I guess.

Separating this poll from the rest of your observations for a moment, would there not also be a subtle sexism in holding back criticism of female characters, essentially giving them a privileged "pass" precisely because they're female? So long as the character was booted for real character flaws and her gender didn't factor into the decision, I wouldn't consider it sexist.

On the contrary, I'd propose that if the female Chrono Trigger characters are perceived as being more flawed than the male characters in general, this may be a reflection of sexism on the part of the scenario writers and not the fans. As a hypothetical example, suppose the writers imbued Marle with misconceived notions of femininity, making her screamy, physically weak and a healer (...oh), so that she could contrast a muscle-bound, silent love interest capable of immense destruction. Players might dislike Marle precisely because they, having been raised in an environment shaped by the feminist movement, think Marle is a poor role model for women.

That example aside, I do think the CT developers did fair job writing the women given the production team's technical and design restrictions. Lucca was especially fantastic. My only complaint would be that Ayla is oversexualized; but even then, her strength made the player respect her, and she displays pretty deep wisdom given her origins.

Now this is very well, taken. Specifically I refer to your suggestion that it is the people who created the game who were sexist and that the Compendiumites voting in the poll were merely reacting to that. It occurred to me before I wrote my last post. Is it perhaps the fact that Marle and Lucca are terrible physical fighters, or that Ayla has a stupid dialect, or that Marle spends most of her time going on about Crono, that in fact has lead to their poor performance in the polls?

There is that possibility, and the safest thing to say would be to acknowledge that that may be a partial explanation. Nevertheless, I am wary of giving the Compendium such a generous benefit of the doubt when I see real sexism pervade nearly every community in which I have had any exposure. Furthermore, Internet communities comprised mostly of teenage males are particularly prone to sexist attitudes. Given the sheer ignorance of this community in other matters, I find it not at all unreasonable a deduction that sexism is why the female characters are held in such lower regard here. I give you kudos for pointing out another possible component to the equation.

Things that sell well.
Sex
Asskicking
Simple
A blend of dim and bright
Bloody

Ayla fits most of that(just not the last one). No one's sexist against Ayla at all! She's pimped out!

Ayla is also the character doing the worst in this poll. I think the facts do not support your opinion. Also--and very significantly--from among the people who have bothered to write about their choice in a post, Ayla consistently draws the most criticism, apathy, and disdain.