Poll

Who would you vote for?

Obama
15 (71.4%)
Mccain
5 (23.8%)
Other
1 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Author Topic: Presidental Vote  (Read 5587 times)

placidchap

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Presidental Vote
« on: September 22, 2008, 05:00:04 pm »
Just curious.  You can list reasons why, or just vote.

edit: modified the question to include everyone
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 08:07:27 am by placidchap »

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2008, 08:18:39 pm »
Jesus fucking christ, Obama. Anything besides Mccain.

teaflower

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 08:30:09 pm »
If only my opinion truly mattered. I vote for Obama. I don't know why. Maybe because McCain sucks. And my mom votes for him only because she's a registered republican.

KebreI

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2008, 06:02:23 am »
THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION!!!!

Romana

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2008, 11:47:31 am »
Hm... Well, I'm from Ireland plus I have little knowledge of politics and stuff at all, so I can't say myself.

Thought

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2008, 12:52:18 pm »
McCain.

Why? Oh I could give reasons, but I suspect that this has a good deal more to do with it than I'd like.

Yet if you are really desiring to know how, HOW in the name of all that is good and right, anyone could support McCain, then the following might interest you.

The above noted psychological factors aside, Obama criticizes McCain for voting with Bush 90% of the time. The best information I've been able to find is also that McCain has voted with the Republican Party 88.3% of the time. Obama has toed the Democratic Party line 96% of the time. That seems to imply that McCain is more willing to break with his own party, indeed to even stand up to them, than Obama is (I say "implies" because there are of course numerous other possible explanations for such a difference). Still, I find even just looking at a ranking of politicians and how often they toe the line to be interesting: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/party-voters/

Of course, such percentages are only relevant as presented if both parties are roughly equal in how often they are "correct" and "incorrect" on their stances (if it isn't equal, then that would call for a statistician to adjust appropriately, but I am not sure if the data even exists that a statistician would need).

While both McCain and Obama's stated plans for health care reform are broken, Obama's promotes inefficiency while McCain's promotes efficiency. Thus I like McCain's goal more, though Obama's is by far the safer of the two routes (McCain's plan favors the majority at the expense of the minority, Obama's favors the minority at the expense of the majority). However, given that neither a Republican or Democratic congress would let McCain's plan come to fruition, the fact that McCain's goal is better than Obama's is thus more impressive to me.

I am not happy with either Obama or McCain's position on Abortion. Personally, I'd argue that in a perfect world there would be no abortions by mere merit that no woman would ever become pregnant who did not desire to be so. We do not live in a perfect world, but knowing what would be an ideal state, I believe we should work towards that state. Thus, I see abortion as a necessary evil, but one that must be allowed. McCain, then, is closer in line to that sentiment (Obama almost seems to treat abortion as a desirable good; almost, but not quite), though I do find it nearly unforgivable that McCain voted against funding to reduce teen-pregnancy in 2005. However, in the same turn, I find it nearly unforgivable that Obama refuses to acknowledge that the guardians of a child might have the right to determine if their child should have an abortion or not. For every other medical procedure, a guardian's consent is required, yet abortion is treated as a special case. There may be some circumstances where the guardian's rights need to be abridged, but then let those be special cases; abridging the rights of a population group whole-hog to prevent a "maybe" is unacceptable. Essentially, at the end of the day, I think the direction we need to move is north, but Obama is heading due south. McCain, at least, is weaving towards the west; he might not be always going in the right direction, but at least he isn't going in the opposite direction.

Regarding Science, until just this morning I had actually liked Obama more (though I held out hope for McCain), since Obama had answered the Q's over at http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/ and McCain hadn't. But then I noticed that McCain finally had submitted answers. I am still pondering them, so I don't know which I'll ultimately favor. However, I still like Obama's Market Based Cap-and-Trade program the most when it comes to the environment (and I hope even if he is defeated he'll write it up and try to get congress to pass it). However in turn, I am also a bit suspect of many of Obama's answers (probably more of an emotional response than a logical one, however). His answers seem like he hired a few scientists to write his answers for him. Potential emotional bias aside, I whole heartedly disagree with his statement that embryonic stem cells are the gold standard; even if that is the present reality, that should not, and indeed must not, reflect the future course of stem cell research. Additionally, his claim that adult stem cells cannot mimic the versatility of embryonic stem cells is horribly hasty. Current research has indicated that techniques can and will eventually be developed to overcome that limitation in adult stem cells, thus his claim seems to reek more of PI bias than scientific conclusion.

But this is already getting long, so I should probably end it here or move it to the general forum. I have reasons to prefer McCain over Obama in foreign affairs, the Economy, and other things, but to include an exhaustive list of my reasons and arguments would take more energy than I’m willing to devote right now. But to be clear, I do not think that Obama or McCain will be the greatest president ever and neither do I think that one or the other will be the worst ever. Rather, McCain generally seems to have better goals than Obama, while on specific issues their respective merits and flaws make for a close call.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2008, 12:47:34 am »
I will obviously be voting for Obama. He is one of the most amazing people in two generations to run for president and have a legitimate shot at winning. Quite simply, if this country does not elect Barack Obama, we do not deserve him.

It would not be easy to justify my enthusiasm, which comes from closely following his campaign over the course of a year, in a reasonable amount of space here. But if you look at his positions on the issues, check out his history, and watch a few of his speeches—and not just the big addresses, but the usual campaign stumps, too—it seems obvious that anyone who is not a doctrinaire conservative or a strict ideologue would support Obama without hesitation. The margin of Obama’s victory this year will depend on how successful his campaign is at introducing voters to who he really is and what he stands for.

Barack Obama represents so much of what is still good about America. Obama’s family is a healthy and a happy one. His racial diversity and his affluence are both a testament to American opportunity and egalitarianism. But most telling of all, Obama has spent his entire career leaving his mark on the world by serving the interests of his community—as an organizer, civil rights attorney, constitutional law professor, and finally an elected representative. He chose this destiny for himself because he wanted it. Judge a person by their ambitions, or by their ideas, or by both, and Obama comes off pretty well any way you slice it. And did I mention he’s left-handed?

In his political engagement, Obama educates himself on the details underpinning important issues. He interacts with people purposefully rather than adversarially. He surrounds himself with a diversity of opinion. He writes much of his own material for his speeches and positions on the issues—a political rarity. Obama’s intellectual curiosity, his grasp of issues at the policy level, his constitutional scholarship, and his commitment to socioeconomic justice are more than just refreshing after the preposterous Bush era. Given our current state of affairs, these qualities are indispensable. They put Obama in a position to be one of the most transformational presidents in American history, and we need something like that right now.

When it comes to the issues, I contemplated how much detail I would provide here. I think too detail would detract from the point, so I’ll keep it abstract. A candidate’s ideological stance is more important to me than all of the above combined, because it is the ideological stance that calibrates his or her arrow of intent. Obama wants to take this country and all of the people in it forward, upward, and leftward. I choose those three words carefully, and will explain in greater detail if asked, but hopefully they speak for themselves. While I disagree with Obama on numerous minor and moderate points, as well as a few major ones, I fully support his arrow of intent. I am confident, based on what I know about him and have learned of his positions on the issues, that he will make a serious effort to expand and protect women’s rights, mitigate our environmental impact, secure energy independence, rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, establish a single-payer healthcare system, reverse some of the wealth capture that has delivered so much of America’s riches to the rich, lift up the poor, adequately fund and restructure public education, expand government oversight of the private sector, excise the influence of religious interests in the federal government, end the war in Iraq and regroup our strength in Afghanistan, bring the free(wheeling) markets under tighter regulatory control, promote racial and cultural harmony while addressing numerous race-specific social problems, reinforce the standing and rights of workers and consumers, restore our tattered alliances with nations, enshrine net neutrality and extend high-speed Internet access, balance the federal budget and reduce the trade deficit, reform our immigration policy, refurbish and popularize our space program, flush out some of the huge influence enjoyed by high-powered corporate lobbyists, redeem the importance of science and technology in our public square, renegotiate our trade agreements, clamp down on irresponsible oil drilling and strip mining operations, and create good-paying career-level jobs to replace vanishing production ones…to name a few of the things that are important to me.

That’s a long list. Obama himself laid out his top priorities thusly:

Quote from: Sliced Bread II
If I haven't gotten combat troops out of Iraq, passed universal health care and created a new energy policy that speaks to our dependence on foreign oil and deals seriously with global warming, then we've missed the boat.

Indeed, if you add infrastructure to that list, and assume that he’ll at least hold the line on women’s rights, I would say that these few accomplishments alone would constitute a successful first term. However, I have a lot of confidence in Obama and I expect more from him than that—especially given the likelihood of a friendly Congress throughout his first four years in office.

Now, all of this is merely a cursory attempt to justify why I am voting for Barack Obama. To spend just a bit longer here, there are also some compelling reasons to vote against John McCain. I could, if I wanted, mirror my entire post up to this point, and it would be more than half accurate. But I’ll spare you the trouble of reading all of this again.

The worst part about John McCain is the Elephant he worships. But what does that mean? Here is an example. If you go Republican this year, this is what you are voting for:

Quote from: Official 2008 Republican Party Platform
We do not support government bailouts of private institutions. Government interference in the markets exacerbates problems in the marketplace and causes the free market to take longer to correct itself.

Link

That was then. Now, the Republicans have proposed giving a trillion dollars to the very same Wall Street profiteers whose irresponsible risk-taking and shameless economic plunder have ruined this nation’s financial health for the foreseeable future. Not only is this going to be the biggest corporate bailout in American history, at taxpayer expense!, but it amounts to a wholesale nationalization of great swaths of the financial sector. So here we are at last: After a generation of free-market, laissez-faire worship championed by such notorious individuals as Milton Friedman and Alan Greenspan, where America lived the nightmare that deregulation was god and government was at its best when twiddling its thumbs and staying out of everyone’s way, resulting in massive wage stagnation and debt accumulation for ordinary citizens, all of a sudden the robber barons have come running to the government in a blind panic about being on the receiving end of the glorious corrective power of the market. These people would be a joke if we weren’t paying our arms and legs and houses for them to put on their act.

Sidenote:
Oh, and did I mention that it’s the damned Bush administration that’s handling this crisis? You know…here’s a gamble I don’t want to take: Bush’s State Department: Secretary Colin Powell, on the strength of his reputation, waved around a vial of white powder in the halls of the UN that helped lead this nation to an unjust war. Bush’s Federal Emergency Management Agency: Michael Brown may have been a fashion god, but, since his actual job was emergency relief logistics, thousands of people died. Bush’s Defense Department: Secretary Rumsfeld sent half the forces he should have into Iraq, put a bunch of right-wing teenagers in charge of reconstruction, and subsequently saw the Iraqi state blow up to smithereens, taking four thousand American lives with it. Bush’s CIA: Director George Tenet might have been able to prevent the September 11 attacks if he had been paying attention, and he never did catch Osama bin Laden. But at least he caught himself a nice Medal of Freedom on his way out the door. Bush’s Justice Department: John Ashcroft’s greatest accomplishment was putting a bra over the statue of Justice. His successor, Alberto Gonzales, one-upped him by approving a policy of torturing prisoners. Justice is a dish best served with Laffy Taffy. Bush’s Labor Department: Yeah, I bet you’d forgotten that we actually have a Labor Department. Not coincidentally, Secretary Elaine Chao, Bush’s only remaining original Cabinet member, is in charge there, and has spent her eight years quietly letting mining companies get away with dangerous operations and shoddy maintenance, resulting in cave-ins and poisonous gasses and all sorts of wonderful stuff. This, of course, is when she wasn’t busy eroding the standing of unions and workers. Bush’s Supreme Court: Now with four conservative voices on the highest court in the land, including John Roberts and Samuel Alito appointed by Bush himself, America has finally gotten the jurisprudence it deserves, exemplified by decisions such as that in Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. What’s that, you’re not familiar with it? Hrm. Bush’s EPA, FDA, and USDA: Let’s fire scientists who criticize the administration’s policies and make Americans have enough melamine in their diet. Bush’s Forest Service: What good are these trees? Chop them down! Bush’s Energy Department: Anybody remember when Enron cause all those lights in California to go out in 2001? No? Here’s a more recent one: Remember when Exxon earned a $40 billion profit in 2007? You know…which is only two zeroes more than former Exxon CEO Lee “The Waddle” Raymond “earned” with his retirement package, presumably paid in gold bricks. How does the Bush administration fit into the picture? I’ll refer you to the Independent Branch.

Now, given a track record like this, what do you suppose are the odds that Bush’s Treasury Department and his Federal Reserve are going to acquit themselves honorably in this financial crisis—a crisis that happens to be the direct consequence of the very same economic policies that the Bush administration has espoused and implemented so religiously?


If you vote Republican this year, you are voting to endorse and prolong the economic ideology of a bunch of hypocritical pirates. Not only has the GOP utterly discredited itself on economic grounds, but John McCain in particular buys into all of this laissez-faire-ordures, or at least that’s what his voting record and his campaign rhetoric would suggest. That’s where the “John McCain votes with George Bush 90 percent of the time” talking point comes from. If you’re voting for McCain, you’re voting for a Republican economic agenda…in which case you are either a robber baron or a moron. Reality rarely reveals itself so clearly.

That’s the problem with Republicans. For fourteen years they have put the Elephant above the Stars and Stripes, American people be damned and America itself be damned. McCain, whatever his personal virtues, is a member of the party that got us to where we are today. He may style himself as a maverick, and there have been occasions when he showed some spunk in the Senate, but the way he has run his campaign is a glimpse as to how he will run his administration. In the course of this campaign, McCain has bowed to the Republican hard line every time that it mattered.

Take this thought to its logical conclusion: The most important consequence of a feeble McCain presidency is that he would allow the White House to become a vehicle for the interests of the corporados who have been so emboldened and engorged by the policies of the current administration. Even if I was sympathetic to McCain personally—which I actually am to some extent—you have to remember that the people who will have McCain’s ear are meaningfully and unsettlingly different than those who will have Obama’s ear. Obama’s small-donor fundraising base and his refusal to accept the stickiest kinds of lobbyist money are no small matter when we arrive at the question of an independent Executive Branch. I’ve had friends who made contributions through their businesses that were actually returned by the Obama campaign due to its strict standards on what kinds of lobbyist money to accept. While the value of this policy is no doubt greater for its PR appeal than anything else in the short term, it is also the truth that large campaign contributions tie a politician’s hands once elected to office. With Obama having such success at getting his campaign funded ten or twenty dollars at a time, he will enjoy much greater freedom once he finally does make it to the White House.

To vote for McCain is to vote for that Almighty Red Elephant, not just on economic issues but on foreign issues: He has favored a Bush-style doctrine of unilateralism. And civic issues: His tax cuts for the rich, combined with the deficit, the debt, and the recession, would cripple the government’s ability to tackle the issues of infrastructure and healthcare. And social issues: We’ll just sum that one up with the words “Sarah Palin.”

I know there are plenty of brain-alive people out there who will actually, willingly vote for John McCain while under the substance of neither liquor nor narcotics. Do they really think that the United States needs more creationism taught in its classrooms? That CEOs don’t have enough tax breaks? That healthcare should only be available to those who can afford to buy it? That Christianity needs to be forcibly affirmed in the public square? That undocumented immigrants should be rounded up and deported? That corporations are unduly burdened by labor unions and safety standards? That the minimum wage should be abolished? That the environment is irrelevant? That pregnant women are worth less than a glob of cells?

That is where the Republican Party exists today. That is how badly they have degraded our national discourse. That is what it means to vote Republican this year.

John McCain himself is a tragic figure, eight years past his pull date, and surrounded by whirlwinds beyond his control or comprehension. I think his intentions are good but his judgment bad. I think his ethics are strong but his premises absurd. And he comes with no few flaws of character that are independent of his party: He is not intellectually curious like Obama is. He is not well-studied the issues central to his passion. He is not a constitutional scholar. He does not discipline himself like Obama does. His family history is heartbreaking and more than a little creepy. His ideology would plunge the nation further downward into the dysfunctional dystopia of modern conservatism He did not earn his high wealth; it was all given to him by powerful associates or obtained through marriage. His gaffes are not few in number, and they paint a consistent picture of someone who only C. Montgomery Burns would have any reason to vote for. And yet people call Obama the out-of-touch one.

The only people who are truly out of touch are the ones who believe that John McCain represents something good or golden. He may be a person of some character, but he would make a poor president by himself, a worse one with Sarah Palin by his side, and an altogether rotten president with the conservative establishment giving him his marching orders.

Obama is someone who possess the ability to take control of this country. With McCain, or Palin, we will see the weakest president since Jimmy Carter. That’s not what America needs right now, especially when the people at the wheel are going to be James Dobson, Thomas Friedman, and the aforementioned suckling pigs who can’t wait to get their trillion-dollar bailout.

(Speaking of Palin, I have to say that she takes an easy choice this year and reduces it to the point where it is not a choice at all. What a colossal blunder on McCain’s part. Of Palin, we have since learned that she spent her time as Governor of Alaska playing Pol Pot, billing the state to sleep and eat at her own home, firing people for getting in her way, forcing rape victims to pay for their own medical treatment, and abandoning the interests of her people so as to improve her own status. Classy.)

The final word in all of my considerations is one of intent. Having looked at who the candidates are, where they stand, and what kinds of special interests they will represent, all that remains is to ask why these two people want to be president.

I can’t answer that for sure, but I can take a good guess. Obama, for his part, has occasionally gone against my grain—such as his support for a limited continuation of the Bush administration’s government-sponsored religious programs. Even so, I respect his strategic thinking. Religious people eat that shit up. And yet there is always something more…some genuine empathy toward and attachment to the people he speaks with. It’s as if he is actually interested in them. You never hear about Obama losing his temper or not paying attention at meetings. It’s enough to think he actually cares. Indeed, Obama’s campaign strategy has looked like some brilliant, radiantly beautiful marriage of ruthless calculation and genuine interest in all of the American people. The last time we saw both of those elements together in force in the White House was probably during FDR’s time. This is part of what makes Obama so amazing. I think he is an idealist who wears the skin of a pragmatist. I think he has a clear picture of what’s wrong with this country, and nearly as clear a picture of what needs to happen to make things well again. I think he wants to do that because, to him, it would affirm and strengthen his sense that he has lived a meaningful life, and that his endeavors have been for good and will outlast him significantly.

John McCain, on the other hand, I think wants to be president because he—and perhaps more accurately his wife Cindy—sees it as a prize…a status symbol and a bully pulpit.
 
I hear from a lot of people that they don’t think there is any meaningful difference between the two major parties. Usually these are people who don’t follow political news closely enough to know what they are talking about. However, to the extent that the two parties sometimes do overlap in bad ways, a cynic should take a look at where that congruity is coming from. Some Democrats are nearly as susceptible to corporate money as most Republicans are. For instance, someone like Joe Biden betrayed progressives when he helped Republicans kowtow to the credit card companies by eliminating most ordinary people’s access to bankruptcy protection even as the economy was beginning to unravel. He lent his support because MBNA, based in his state of Delware, lobbied him. Then there was Bill Clinton, who slashed welfare and negotiated NAFTA…again betraying many people on his left. His actions were not so much the result of lobbying, but rather a strategic plot to capture the American center, which succeeded.

What this means is not that Democrats are no different than Republicans (sorry, Nader), but that individual Democrats have competing priorities and Democrats as a whole are not the party of infallibility. When you look at the actual policy accomplishments of the Democrats and the Republicans, the differences become clear, even if some maddening congruities remain. To reduce those congruities, what we need is stronger legislation that limits the power of concentrated money in politics, more nonpartisan oversight of government operations, and better <i>Democrats</i> who are sympathetic to the full spectrum of Americans but approach the challenges facing our nation with the mindset of a true liberal. People who are cynical toward both parties would do well to get involved in politics and put the pressure on the party that is nearest to them ideologically. To borrow an Obaman turn of phrase, that’s how you become the change you want to see.

Delta Dragon

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2008, 02:06:30 am »
Well if I was old enough to vote, I would probably do Mccain.  I don't really like either of them though.  I just consider Mccain the lesser of two evils.  The only candidate I actually liked was Hukabee. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 02:08:27 am by Delta Dragon »

Thought

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2008, 10:48:24 am »
The only candidate I actually liked was Hukabee. 

Hukabee was a blast, the sort of guy I'd love to share a few drinks with. But that doesn't mean I think he'd be a good president. While I like the gumption behind eliminating the IRS, that has less of a chance of working than McCain's stance of eliminating government waste. Having that intent is good, but making it a center part of a campaign, not so much. And the few times Huckabee spoke off the cuff about foreign affairs, it was painful to watch. He might have been a serious contender back around when the federalist papers were written, but not so much now-a-days.

Lord J, I think even the most extreme Republican would have to agree with part of what you said: If the country does elect Obama, then the country will be getting its just desserts. ;)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 10:50:29 am by Thought »

ONSLAUGHT

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2008, 04:30:40 pm »
Based on the article Thought put up, that actually I remember a friend of mine told me they learned in some class that apparantly that's how a child's mindworks. And only when they've grown up does their brainwaves even out. So, according to that first link that would mean it's as if our president is guarenteed to be the equivalent of a 12th grade high school student. If, keep in mind, IF this is the case, I could probably run the country better. I already have a pretty high IQ, and I've seen I rank above many of the past people who've run. Of course, I'm not interested as is the case with many people which is probably why somewhere the perfect and ultimate candidate everyone can agree on is somewhere, but we're never gonna find them.

As for who I'm interested in, I don't care too much for politics. My friends were complaining about it one day and thought I might be good for a president and got me stuff to check out. It's boring as watching a brick wall expecting it to move eventually, and so I really I mean REALLY don't care who wins. I say, let the flip of a coin do the picking. That's how I've made most of my life's decisions. If I was put in a situation though where I had absolutely no choice but to choose between the two, I'd say Obama. Of course, that's only because everything I've seen seems to either make fun of them both, or make fun of Mccain and praise Obama. I'm curious as to whether or not I can actually find something on TV that I watch that doesn't support Obama.

So for me, cause from what I've seen being one sided, I'd rather take neither side. I mostly posted this just to put my thoughts on what the presidents think like, my "if I had to choose" thing, and thas it.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2008, 06:35:29 pm »
The ubiquitous Obama praise is a byproduct of the caliber of his campaign. I'll let Horsey speak:



He's run an exceptional organization that's defeated the Clinton machine and...well, hell, it's consummate. It's had one message from the beginning, it's avoided gaffes, it's demonstrated incredible vision and resolve by not taking short shots or letting caustic news prompt sudden, risky reactions, it's gotten small volunteers and donors involved like no other campaign before it, it's opened up battleground states such that it's caused the cash-superior RNC to play a defensive game...it's even kept the same font for all of its campaign literature and signs. Obama's campaign is now famous for being level-headed and strategically minded.

That level of leadership definitely has implications for the White House. Look at the alternative: McCain's changed his message and slogans several times (conceding that it's a "change election" recently), he's made contradictory statements on several issues (to the point that a campaign staffer joked that pundits should listen to campaign-approved statements, not the words of the candidate), he's resorted to Rovian politics from the get-go, he's sacrificed his reputation as a Maverick by changing his position on several issues to satisfy the Republican base, and he's made an incredibly risky political gamble by choosing Palin as his running mate in a pander to religious wingnuts and women (the former succeeded; the latter failed). And always ready to uphold the Constitution, he's prevented the press from having any substantive interviews or Q&A sessions with her, even rigging the vice presidential debate to make it easier for her.

Not only does this show poor leadership, but it hits upon something central to McCain: when it comes down to it, he really doesn't care about governing. Ezra Klein thinks that perhaps McCain chose her because he won't accept his own mortality and the possibility he may die, but Andrew Sullivan argues that he knows full well Palin might become President, and that doesn't matter -- he wants to get elected, not choose a vice president who will run the country well. On the contrary, Obama seems to care. He surrounds himself with experts, even retaining two economists who bitterly hate one another for opposing viewpoints. He selected Joe Biden, who savagely criticized him in the primaries, as his running mate to show that he's interested in sculpting a competent, experienced White House. McCain did not even feign to care, or he would have picked Romney, Pawlenty, or at least someone with some executive experience. No, he's become the new Karl Rove such that Karl Rove himself has criticized the scope of lying in McCain's advertisements. And Palin is right at home in a Rovian strategy -- her opponent for the position of mayor of Wasilla recounted that mayoral races in that city had historically been friendly affairs based on local matters. Palin injected abortion, religion, and other incendiary, divisive wedges to claim her victory, and then in the true tradition of fiscal conservatism, left the town with its first long-term debt. Did I mention she's a compulsive liar?

God, describing the Republican Party is like telling a joke; this material writes itself. It'd be more funny if they were harmless, of course, but in addition to their disastrous policies, their relationship with religion is now inseparable, and their attack on science and general intelligence unrelenting. Yes, vote for McCain, and get a Free One-Time Only Bonus Deal of theocracy, courtesy of "Earth is 6,000 years old" Sarah "I'm Doing God's Will" Palin!



LET'S GET REEEAAAAAAADY TO BIIIIIIIIIIIIBLE
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 06:40:59 pm by ZeaLitY »

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2008, 09:09:41 pm »
This of course raises a good question for those supporting McCain. The presidency is hard job, it ages a man. Look at pictures of George W Bush taken in 2000, and then a picture taken this year. And hell, he didn't even take the job seriously. The possibility of McCain not making it through due to natural causes is a real one.

So back to that question then: For those supporting McCain, do you think Palin is a good and capable choice for president?

Thought

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2008, 10:29:30 pm »
Actually, this is one of those times that I really wish our country still had the Presidential Runner-Up be president. Sucks for the opponent who looses, but the country wins. I'd certainly choose McCain over Biden and Obama over Palin. Though, it does sort of make the vice-presidency a useless position most of the time, then.

Regarding Palin specifically, I do find it amusing that if we look at job experience alone, she's actually the most qualified, outdoing Obama and McCain with ease. She's the only one to have actually spent time in an executive position and to have experience governing anything. If that experience speaks well for her is a different matter...

Delta Dragon

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2008, 11:46:55 pm »
I actually wouldn't mind having Palin as president.  In some ways I'd almost rather have her than Mccain. 

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Presidental Vote
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2008, 08:54:57 am »
You know what combination would be better than either that we currently have?

Biden-McCain