The Original Fall of Zeal

[PhantomBPR]

I'm sure this is something I could find with a simple search, but I've always been a bit of a n00b when it comes to the extended plot of Chrono Trigger, so I figured I'd ask myself.

How did Zeal originally fall before Crono and the team destroyed the Mammon machine and affected other events in the Zeal timeline?  Was Lavos originally summoned by Queen Zeal and brought destruction to Zeal, and why did the Black Omen only arrise after the team altered the timeline, what stopped the Ocean Palace from rising otherwise, which brings me to the question, would it even need to rise? Did Zeal continue ruleing for several more years? Or did I just totally miss something?

In short, what was the original timeline of Zeal?

[V_Translanka]

Well, we see through Magus' recount that the Gurus are there...then Lavos comes & time ufcks them along with Janus...One major difference between the Keystone Timelines as it pertains to the Fall of Zeal is that Schala wouldn't have had to use up her power to send anyone out of the Ocean Palace...and Crono & Co. wouldn't have fought Lavos at all, really...I think Schala was able to do something as a final act, perhaps...maybe someone else has a better grasp of the Keystone events than I do, though...

[Dark Serge]

Yeah I thought it was like that, in the original timeline there was no Chrono's friends so Schala could port away herself and the queen instead... The only possible trigger for the Black Omen has to be Queen Zeal, her influence in staying with Lavos somehow created the Black Omen.

So yeah, basically this:

The Guru's are present because the Prophet's not there (Magus) to tell the Queen to banish them, then as a result Janus is there too, I believe he was there too in the Chrono & co timeline, but can't remember for sure. Then the time holes materializes and the Guru's and Janus get sent to past & future timelines. Then Schala ports herself and Queeny away and the Ocean Palace sinks to the bottom. The Black Omen never rises.

I think.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

On a similar note, I have a question.  Do we know how long Zeal was a flying kingdom?  Was it a matter of centuries, years, months?  Or is it unknown?

[Dark Serge]

I don't think we can know that, but my guess is decades at least. It seemed like it had been there for a long time, what with the deserted Earthbound Village and all. Also the Blackbird had already been constructed, the Skyways were fully functional, and let's not forget about that Elemental Weapon place or whatever. It seemed like it had been there for a long time as well, and it was also known that they used the power of the Sunstone before the Mammon Machine came or something.

I assume it's been there for at least 100 years.

But something that seems strange to me is, why do they count down in years? The prehistoric age is in the past, but that's in the year 65,000,000 B.C. or w/e and Zeal is in 12,000 B.C., so it seems weird that they would count down instead of up. At some point the kingdom of Guardia was founded and they started at the year 0 again, and from that point they do count up.

Ah well, lots of weird stuff left to figure out.

[Thought]

Aye, Zeal was probably a floating kingdom for quite some time. However, it seems that it reached decadency specifically under the rule of Queen Zeal. Both Janus and Schala realise that Queen Zeal isn't there mother, so Zeal must have been using Lavos' power for less than 10 years. Given basic fantasy tropes, I'd wager that a it has been there for a good 1000 years.

But something that seems strange to me is, why do they count down in years? The prehistoric age is in the past, but that's in the year 65,000,000 B.C. or w/e and Zeal is in 12,000 B.C., so it seems weird that they would count down instead of up. At some point the kingdom of Guardia was founded and they started at the year 0 again, and from that point they do count up.

The only Time Period dates we are given is from the perspective of people in the future (specifically, from the eras 1000 and 2300). Thus, we don't know what the people in 65,000,000 BC or Zeal used for a system of dating (the former probably didn't use any calendar, the latter probably went by year of a King or Queen's reign).

Hmmm... Since in 2300 AD, they still seem to use years since Guardia was founded, that seems to imply that it was still an extant power at that time...

[Lakonthegreat]

Or they just didn't have the technology to change their dating systems over to a new date format. Like in the movie Office Space, they had an entire floor of people changing the date format from 2 digits to 4, and even then it took them like an assumed few months considering the amount of contracting help they have. Who knows? The Future may have somewhat become an Idiocracy. Because if you notice, only one or two people knew what those seeds were, and all they knew to do to regain energy and such was to use the Enertron. They may have lost all technical knowledge by then with the exception of Doan and the first guy who went to get food.

[Quenditar]

It's been a long time since I went through the Future the first time.  Do any of the people there tell you the year, or do you learn from a computer terminal or Robo?  The computers and Robo were built before the Day of Lavos when Guardia might have still been in existence, or even if it had fallen the era too familiar to change.  (IRL it takes a strong impetus to recenter a well-used calendar, either a new religion or adopting some other culture's calendar.)

I like the new name "Antiquity" for 12,000 BC.  Despite historians' efforts, the "Dark Ages" sound like a time of ignorance, constant war, and suffering.  "Antiquity" sounds like a period of ancient high culture, even if underpinned by slaves.

[Fireseal]

How does one know that Schala teleported Queen Zeal to safety before Crono and co. started changing the timeline? How does one know for a fact that she even had the power left in her to teleport herself to safety at all? We don't see that in the game. Perhaps I've missed something mentioned in the game that she had escaped in the original fall?

[V_Translanka]

How does one know that Schala teleported Queen Zeal to safety before Crono and co. started changing the timeline? How does one know for a fact that she even had the power left in her to teleport herself to safety at all? We don't see that in the game. Perhaps I've missed something mentioned in the game that she had escaped in the original fall?

Welcome to the wonderful world of theory. Should I go through a step-by-step definition of the word hypothesis for you?

It's just a likely possibility based on what we do know...A lot of the Compendium theorem is made this way...

[Dark Serge]

How does one know that Schala teleported Queen Zeal to safety before Crono and co. started changing the timeline? How does one know for a fact that she even had the power left in her to teleport herself to safety at all? We don't see that in the game. Perhaps I've missed something mentioned in the game that she had escaped in the original fall?

Welcome to the wonderful world of theory. Should I go through a step-by-step definition of the word hypothesis for you?

It's just a likely possibility based on what we do know...A lot of the Compendium theorem is made this way...

It's just a theory, but imo the most likely one, since somehow Schala's pendant fell in the hands of the Guardia line, and that would be difficult if Schala wouldn't have survived the incident. The theory that she also transported her mother is because there isn't another likely explanation why the Black Omen didn't rise in the original incident.

[V_Translanka]

It's also possible that the Gurus were able to accomplish more sabotage on the Ocean Palace in K-1, being unhampered by the Prophet's warnings and thus it didn't have w/e it needed to rise as the Black Omen at all...

[Ethasus]

This might the first post in a long time but anyways..

summary of the fall of Zeal, not necessarily other things like how long Zeal had been floating:

->OP built and the Gurus have sabotaged it
->MM activated and Gurus are present, Lavos is awakened send the gurus and janus away.
->Schala teleports herself out of OP
->Lavos destroys Zeal and by extention most of the Earthbound
->Schala and other survivors stay with the Earthbound, become assimilated and the pendant finds its way to the chief family and onto the royal Gaurdians.