Did Magus miss his big chance on Death Peak?

[FaustWolf]

One of the most ingenious moments in Chrono Trigger, in my opinion, occurs during the Death Peak Clone Replacement scene (starts at 1:30 in this vid) with Magus in the party. Notice how, just after he says "Save the hellos for later! We've got work to do!", he takes a moment to step back and brood?

I've always been fascinated with what, exactly, is going through Magus' mind at this moment, and I think the answer would reveal much about his character. When the team acquired the Chrono Trigger, did the thought cross his mind that he might seize it, get Norstein Bekkler to create a clone of Schala, and then ascend the mountain himself to achieve his goal of saving her, at Crono's expense? Now that the world's only Chrono Trigger has been expended, does he regret not doing so? Magus might therefore have developed a latent animosity toward Crono (explaining such charming comments as "You got whacked 'cuz you're weak!").

Given that Crono's life holds far less meaning to Magus than Schala's, it would seem to me that he didn't just run off with the Chrono Trigger precisely because he believed she was still alive. This couldn't just be a mere guess on his part -- I mean, he's giving up his one chance to pull her out of the time stream. This man has faith! Though pangs of uncertainty probably haunted him throughout the rest of the game.

Just thought I'd ponder aloud, because it's fun. See what can come out of a simple sprite animation and text box?

[Umaro]

Definitely an interesting thought.

I think what Magus was thinking about was that he already missed his chance. When they enter the time freeze, Magus says he never thought it was possible. I haven't played Chrono Trigger in awhile, but I think while Gasper is talking about the Chrono Trigger Magus makes a comment hinting at a sort of scepticism that it will work.

Once Magus starts brooding in the time freeze, he is probably mentally kicking himself because now here he is, and he has no replacement for Schala.

Gasper also says something to the effect that the Chrono Trigger will only work if they really want their friend back. Everyone's reaction to this seems to be that they don't care how absurd the idea sounds, they'd try it if it meant even a slim chance of saving Chrono. Magus, being the calculating individual he is, probably was not thinking along the same lines. He was probably thinking about the odds of it actually working. While everyone else is in awe in the time freeze, and Magus is dumbfounded that such a thing is actually possible, he could be thinking that even if he did seize the opportunity, would his will to save Schala have been enough to get the Chrono Trigger to work, or would his arrogance make him too proud to put his faith into an egg. Maybe he feels guilty that he wasn't willing to consider every possibility to save Schala.

[FaustWolf]

Fascinating, that makes sense!

[mav]

Very interesting...

I think he's just amazed that it worked...I'm sure he wanted to hold on to that moment: he's essentially seeing Schala for the last time, whether or not the thought to save her crossed his mind. Magus just seems to arrogant and self-reliant to accept anyone else's help in saving Schala, so, like Umaro said, the guilt here was just hitting his mind.

Oh and this is what Gaspar said in the original script:

   Like any egg, it represents a
   possibility...
   It may or may not...hatch.

   But the Chrono Trigger gives you the
   potential to get your friend back...

   The egg will have an effect equal to
   the effort you put into your search.
   No more, and no less.

   Don't forget that.
   As long as you keep Crono in your
   heart, the day you are dreaming of
   shall arrive...

But perhaps that statement affected him as well, you can argue that Magus wanted to save Schala more than the others wanted to save Crono. Once he realized that it worked for them, he's completely positive that he missed his chance, even if he didn't believe that it would work. Even after hearing all that talk about the Time Egg, Magus still scoffs at the idea of saving Crono:

[Magus]
   I don't care either way whether he's here
   or not......

   Just as long as I can beat IT.

[Umaro]

That's a good point as well. Magus' primary motivation is probably more revenge than rescue. He never had a plan to save Schala. From the very beginning all he wanted to do was summon Lavos so he could kill it. You could say he wants to kill Lavos first and save Schala second. The moment in the time freeze could have hit him pretty hard because he sees that he and these people he's traveling with have both lost someone to Lavos. The difference is, they weren't consumed by it. In making Crono their first priority, they were able to get him back. Magus probably regrets not doing the same thing for Schala.

[mav]

Good point, I've always felt that Magus's goal was to kill Lavos, saving Schala was most likely his next goal. Even though Magus may have had the opportunity to save Schala at that point, I think he still felt it was his duty to kill Lavos, but seeing Schala may have shown him the error in his priorities. He never seems to level with Crono and co, even after this whole ideal. I've been looking at the original translation and the real translation...when does Magus say these lines? They're placed right after that long pause:

Magus: Save the hellos for later!
   We've got work to do.

Magus: ......

Magus: What a pity...

   We weren't able to change a thing.

Does he say that if it fails or something? Like I was saying earlier, he just won't level with the rest of the team, even though he can definitely relate.

[FaustWolf]

Oooh, totally forgot about the "we couldn't change a thing" line. I thought that happened if you try to examine the environment before switching the clone for Crono, but now I'm not sure.

[V_Translanka]

It's either examining Magus' body or Schala's that he says that (probably Magus' since the ellipsis is the one for if you examine Schala)...or maybe Lavos/Zeal? I forget...But, yeah, I'm mostly with Umaro on this one. His focus is on his revenge against Lavos. I don't think he can really save anything without taking out Lavos first and I think he knows that. If nothing else, though, I believe he certainly makes note of the Time Egg's power...

[maggiekarp]

The line is said if you examine Schala in the time freeze. In the retranslation, he doesn't say "we" but instead says:

Magus: ......

Magus: Pitiful......

   Unable to change even a single thing in the
   end……

This seems to be more about his time as the Prophet, where he tried to stop the destruction of his entire Kingdom, but failed out of his own weakness and the idea he could do it by himself. (Don't give me that meddling kids theory, if they weren't there he would be space hedgehog food)

I think it's also important to note that Magus is the one who had the Chrono Trigger idea to begin with, and even tells the party about Gaspar's ideas if you choose to kill him. He's surprised at the time freeze, but it's not like this all came out of nowhere.

Magus faced Lavos alone and failed, he knows he needs to use the crew to beat that guy, he knows Lavos has to die, he's not gonna have a plot to snatch the egg at the last second and completely change his life's plan on a whim.

Remember, revenge first, Schala maybe later if his own weakness didn't mean her death already. Magus is all about killing Lavos and ending that nightmare, Schala isn't mentioned again until the end, when his problem seems to be over.

[Prince Janus]

 On that subject, there may be another horrifying thought....


 
       In Chrono Cross, what event exactly conceives the Devourer of Time? Because I'd think somewhere between post-disaster 12,000,000 BC and 1999 AD, Schala and Lavos became as one, but Lavos doesn't appear to have changed much for round 2. Still though, imagine if Magus defeated Lavos only to find... HE killed his sister.

[Xenterex]

The thing with the mindset for Magus, is he's always prepared for, and attuned, to death.  After his many years in devotion to gaining power, he'd probably already come to terms with the fates of Schala and Zeal. Otherwise, he might have had the idea that perhaps he could sever Zeal's connection to Lavos in the hopes of saving Zeal, rather than just putting her out of her misery by ending her life.  While he may feel some regret, or even remorse over the events involving Lavos and the destruction of the kingdom of Zeal, part of his acceptance with this lose is that these deaths occur in their proper time frame.  Crono's death, on the other hand, is untimely in more ways than one.  He has an established value in the war against Lavos, while (at least in terms of CT's story alone) Schala, had more or less done her part.

The three dot pause is probably more akin to jealousy than regret; that Crono has those that value him so highly, while he himself, (Magus) really isn't, or at this point, won't let himself be.

[Umaro]

I think Xen's got it. Magus has probably come to grips with the situation and sees Crono and Co. as assets for his cause: killing Lavos. His annoyance with everyone in the time freeze seems to show that and probably is derived from slight jealousy. Kind of like, "okay, I helped you get what you want; now help me get what I want." He probably sees the situation as more of a means to an end. They now have Crono back; morale will be higher; they have more assets; let's go kill Lavos.

Though the way Magus says, "al right we have work to do" and then turns away still makes me believe that, in that moment, he was thinking of Schala, but as usual, he was very methodical and rational about the situation because he doesn't want to appear weak. Maggiecarp is right, it's not as though Magus acts choked up about Schala throughout the game. That moment in the time freeze when he turns away is probably supposed to be the short time Magus actually shows some vulnerability.

[FaustWolf]

Something Uboa just noted was worthy of revivifying this. I never really paid much attention to it before, but it seems a key event in retrospect; the basic gist is that Magus' change in heart (and change in goal from slaying Lavos to saving Schala) may have been born at this very moment.

I still find problematic the notion that Magus had some inkling about the clone-switch process and he could have done likewise if he really wanted to save Schala at that point, but then again there are other considerations as noted earlier in this thread.

It seems that Magus is surprised by Schala's sacrifice in the linked scene. His reaction is the same in the Japanese version judging from Kwhazit's translation for the Retranslation project. Magus doesn't protest in the slightest when Schala sends the survivors out -- Schala's action is eminently useful in that it will give him a second chance at Lavos -- but he does seem to mull over what's happening. Consider that this may be the first time in his adult life anyone has ever shown him some mercy; it makes sense that this moment could mark the beginning of his reclaiming his own humanity, and thus the concern for Schala we see in CT:DS' bonus ending.

Darn it, Magus' journey as a character is packed with soooo much dramatic potential, and it's just one of those unique situations in storytelling that simply can't be outdone in a separate intellectual property. This is why Square Enix failing to treat it, and preventing fans from doing so, is such an injustice.

[chi_z]

It really is an injustice, I think of CE as being a fanfic taken to the interactive level. They really should've let you guys go through with it, the old square from 95-99 would've allowed it.

[Xenterex]

that moment may have been a catalyst to his change of heart, but I wouldn't say that he changed his focus from there.  When Magus is consulted at the pier, he mocks the death of Crono (and insult to Frog) and seems just about ready to concede to the might of Lavos, iirc the dialogue there correctly.  The change, as mentioned prior, probably comes more from witnessing the event of the Time freeze.  It's been mentioned in other threads that I've participated in, but the manipulation of time/space is a reality for adept black magic use, and perhaps studying that freeze illuminated the possibility to Magus that Schala could be saved at all.

Disregarding the DS and Cross for a moment here, there really isn't mention of Schala from the rise of the Omen until the Moonlight Parade ending where Lucca only assumes that Magus is going to seek out Schala.  I say assume because, while yes, he is seen in the snow mountains flying around (and thus confirming the idea) he doesn't actually say specifically that's his intent.  He might not even consider Schala until Lavos is defeated, at which point he needs to search for some new drive as his entirety of being was consumed in revenge.  Much like Inigo Montoya I would say.    Maybe at the end of the day Magus is just some magical time traveling pirate.