Author Topic: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)  (Read 159994 times)

placidchap

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #180 on: November 27, 2008, 09:37:20 am »
The Dead Sea is still kinda a mystery. When Kid saves Serge the dimensions split. Is this the only time when dimensions split? Was it a special event that caused dimensions to split? Or do dimensions split everytime somebody makes an important decision? Or do they split when you travel back in time and change something?

Who knows.

I always thought of it as each timeline is in its own dimension...all separate from each other, so when one changes the timeline, it is  self contained to that dimension...  but the split in Cross was one timeline that was split in twain but still self contained...for the most part anyway (looking at you Dinopolis).  like a head of hair, each hair is in one follicle (i know multiples can sprout from one follicle but for simplicity sake...), and then there are hairs that are split, effectively becoming 2 hairs from one follicle.  something like that anyway.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 09:39:30 am by placidchap »

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #181 on: November 27, 2008, 10:09:15 am »
The Dead Sea is still kinda a mystery. When Kid saves Serge the dimensions split. Is this the only time when dimensions split? Was it a special event that caused dimensions to split? Or do dimensions split everytime somebody makes an important decision? Or do they split when you travel back in time and change something?

Who knows.

I always thought of it as each timeline is in its own dimension...all separate from each other, so when one changes the timeline, it is  self contained to that dimension...  but the split in Cross was one timeline that was split in twain but still self contained...for the most part anyway (looking at you Dinopolis).  like a head of hair, each hair is in one follicle (i know multiples can sprout from one follicle but for simplicity sake...), and then there are hairs that are split, effectively becoming 2 hairs from one follicle.  something like that anyway.

I always thought that Home World was a split off of Another World that wasn't supposed to happen. And when they fused into the Ideal Timeline, I think some events that happened in Another World were replaced with the better outcomes that happened in Home World, and vice versa.

Eske

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #182 on: November 27, 2008, 01:27:45 pm »
So, I've been one of those lurkers who've been reading through the compendium for years, but never actually commented on anything.  It gives me great pleasure to finally join in the discussion since everyone here puts plenty of thought into each of their posts.  It's a great thing to see.

So here's my question.  I'm a bit confused about how time gates tie in with dimensional vortices.  It was my understanding that if Chrono & Co alter the time line (no matter when they do so), the pre-alteration time line gets sent to the Dead Sea (or is it Sea of Eden--I always get them confused).  If that's the case, how can different dimensions exist?

To me, different dimensions represent events that could have happened, but if alternate time lines are sucked into the Dead Sea, then how can these different potentialities ever come to fruition?

I know I'm probably overlooking something really obvious, but I'd love some help with this one.

Quote from: ZeaLitY
...statement by Masato Kato that the Dead Sea is the ruined timeline Crono averted by killing Lavos, and a reflection of destruction that Serge causes.

Ok wait, what gets sent to the Dead Sea and what gets sent to the DBT.  I need a refresher.  If the above quote is true, then the Lavos who wasn't killed is inside the Dead Sea, with the rest of his timeline.

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #183 on: November 27, 2008, 01:48:22 pm »
So, I've been one of those lurkers who've been reading through the compendium for years, but never actually commented on anything.  It gives me great pleasure to finally join in the discussion since everyone here puts plenty of thought into each of their posts.  It's a great thing to see.

So here's my question.  I'm a bit confused about how time gates tie in with dimensional vortices.  It was my understanding that if Chrono & Co alter the time line (no matter when they do so), the pre-alteration time line gets sent to the Dead Sea (or is it Sea of Eden--I always get them confused).  If that's the case, how can different dimensions exist?

To me, different dimensions represent events that could have happened, but if alternate time lines are sucked into the Dead Sea, then how can these different potentialities ever come to fruition?

I know I'm probably overlooking something really obvious, but I'd love some help with this one.

Quote from: ZeaLitY
...statement by Masato Kato that the Dead Sea is the ruined timeline Crono averted by killing Lavos, and a reflection of destruction that Serge causes.

Ok wait, what gets sent to the Dead Sea and what gets sent to the DBT.  I need a refresher.  If the above quote is true, then the Lavos who wasn't killed is inside the Dead Sea, with the rest of his timeline.


Lavos in I guess almost every version of the Keystone Timelines was sent to the DBT when he was defeated, so it would seem that he wasn't meshed in with everything else in the Dead Sea. If he was, though, then he is either frozen or dormant.

Xenterex

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #184 on: November 27, 2008, 02:31:22 pm »
Quote
with the Chrono Trigger - Perfect Bible out, maybe the answer to the Is the new ending canonical?

I wouldn't count on a game guide book to clear up anything about plot or story canon. If anything, especially when it comes to third party involvement, these books sometimes print erroneous things.

Furthermore, I don't like the wishing for an interview scheme.  It's one thing to have a a meaningful interview about elements you wanted to pursue with a project, (but couldn't due to reasonable limitations) but if you're still unable to reproduce and convey what you want, (or clarify desired outcome) in a third time reproduction,  that just means you're losing it.  Personally I'm starting to think that Akira Toriyama have more rein control of this sled.  Capsules and monster training, oh my!

Also,  this new ending tie-in to Cross makes me think that the story is just another teen girl love-fling, like 'Twilight', or whatever. *note*  (I haven't read or scene about twilight, I'm just using as an example of the genre)

"Grr, I'm angry at my parent, the world everything! So im'ma destroy it."  Then suddenly down the line she hears some child crying, develops a crush on him, and changes her ways to intervene on his behalf. (teen fickle)  So, if building a crush on an infant isn't bad enough,  she's lusting for him so much, she clones herself to be able to do it twice.  Then when both are free (one on either arm >.>)  she like "I'm only how many thousands of years older than you?  Oh well, even though you won't remember me, we're gonna stalk you through in time/space.  We're not creepy.  Much."

And all the while,  Dalton and Balthesar are collaborating to see if they can escalate this from teen-love to a soap opera.

*insert plot hanger jingle* dun dun duuuuuuuun!  

Okay, less silly now.
Quote
I always thought of it as each timeline is in its own dimension...all separate from each other, so when one changes the timeline, it is  self contained to that dimension...  but the split in Cross was one timeline that was split in twain but still self contained...for the most part anyway (looking at you Dinopolis).  like a head of hair, each hair is in one follicle (i know multiples can sprout from one follicle but for simplicity sake...), and then there are hairs that are split, effectively becoming 2 hairs from one follicle.  something like that anyway.

And I think that sort of mindset/mentality foundation would've done better for the consistency of plot design in Chrono games.  If that were the case, I don't think the draconian merge could've happened.  Most time created changes between the two games are based on the key-stone timelines,  but a timeline that doesn't have Lavos arrive (hence the survival of the reptites) couldn't have happened in this follicle.    This is another example of how the approach to time/dimensions is mostly a split basis of "what-if" possibilities to become whatever time branch is necessary for plot convenience.  Granted, a third game installment could've created some time project to prevent Lavos from hitting the planet in the first place, but I'm still finding any involvement with that time-line weak story writing at best.  Why?  Because if someone on this planet with time travel capabilities can prevent Lavos, then they could surely arrange for the means of having a similar massed object hitting the planet to maintain the time-line effects without Lavos' involvement, and thus reduce sizable variations or complications.  Butterfly-effect go!

Oh all the philosophical placements throughout both games, I guess this is where Descartes makes a show.  Only its not the 'me' it's the 'everything else'.

Eske

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #185 on: November 27, 2008, 03:45:01 pm »
So, I've been one of those lurkers who've been reading through the compendium for years, but never actually commented on anything.  It gives me great pleasure to finally join in the discussion since everyone here puts plenty of thought into each of their posts.  It's a great thing to see.

So here's my question.  I'm a bit confused about how time gates tie in with dimensional vortices.  It was my understanding that if Chrono & Co alter the time line (no matter when they do so), the pre-alteration time line gets sent to the Dead Sea (or is it Sea of Eden--I always get them confused).  If that's the case, how can different dimensions exist?

To me, different dimensions represent events that could have happened, but if alternate time lines are sucked into the Dead Sea, then how can these different potentialities ever come to fruition?

I know I'm probably overlooking something really obvious, but I'd love some help with this one.

Quote from: ZeaLitY
...statement by Masato Kato that the Dead Sea is the ruined timeline Crono averted by killing Lavos, and a reflection of destruction that Serge causes.

Ok wait, what gets sent to the Dead Sea and what gets sent to the DBT.  I need a refresher.  If the above quote is true, then the Lavos who wasn't killed is inside the Dead Sea, with the rest of his timeline.

Lavos in I guess almost every version of the Keystone Timelines was sent to the DBT when he was defeated, so it would seem that he wasn't meshed in with everything else in the Dead Sea. If he was, though, then he is either frozen or dormant.

Nevermind I get it.
1. Lavos Timeline: Lavos wins
2. Another World: He loses and Lavos Timeline gets sent to the DBT (including the formerly victorious Lavos who pulls Schala from the Ocean Palace incident thus beginning the evolution of the Dream Devourer/Time Devourer).
3. Home World: Lavos is unable to lose because the Crono Team could only save the future of Another World, since only one copy of the Team existed in 1000AD. (thank you Compendium Article)

Essentially Home World becomes the new Lavos Timeline, only with a few differences.

Another World houses Chronopolis in the Sea of Eden, which was there in first place because of the Time Crash.
Now Chronopolis was sent to the past...before the split occurs in 1010AD, so it should still be there in the future in both worlds, even though it was never created in Home World.    According to one of the Compendium's Articles, the Time Crash essentially makes Another Worlds 2400AD and 12000BC (apparently this is the new accepted date or something) exist simultaneously in that region. 

So now Home World has this region in El Nido that crosses 12000BC and 2400AD, thus we see the bleak future Lavos creates for Home World in the Dead Sea because this "neo-Lavos Timeline" wasn't discarded. 

@ Toma XIII: So to answer your question, finally, the original changes the Crono Team made to the timeline were sent to the Darkness Beyond Time, where that Lavos now resides, not the Dead Sea. Actually, no discarded timelines are sent to the Dead Sea at all. The future we see in Home World Dead Sea exists because of the split in 1010AD.  There are TWO futures where Lavos wins: The discarded Lavos Timeline, and Home World's Timeline.

maybe  :D

Magus22

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #186 on: November 28, 2008, 01:36:03 pm »
We got the idea from Kato's "help outside of time" and long-haired design for the guy in the 1005 A.D. cut scene, so it really belonged to Square all along.

If I remember right, I believe I may have started that mess with Dalton. Many posts ago (and I will track it down in the archives) but I remember posting something about Dalton's glove in the FMV that lead to mass speculation. I will have to confirm this and post a thread link...

Magus22

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #187 on: November 28, 2008, 01:52:29 pm »
We got the idea from Kato's "help outside of time" and long-haired design for the guy in the 1005 A.D. cut scene, so it really belonged to Square all along.

If I remember right, I believe I may have started that mess with Dalton. Many posts ago (and I will track it down in the archives) but I remember posting something about Dalton's glove in the FMV that lead to mass speculation. I will have to confirm this and post a thread link...

*didn't feel like editing my last post and forgive me for the double post"

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=4103.msg71794#msg71794

There it is!!!

Romana

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #188 on: November 28, 2008, 01:59:24 pm »
We got the idea from Kato's "help outside of time" and long-haired design for the guy in the 1005 A.D. cut scene, so it really belonged to Square all along.

If I remember right, I believe I may have started that mess with Dalton. Many posts ago (and I will track it down in the archives) but I remember posting something about Dalton's glove in the FMV that lead to mass speculation. I will have to confirm this and post a thread link...

*didn't feel like editing my last post and forgive me for the double post"

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=4103.msg71794#msg71794

There it is!!!

Haha, yeah, you're the first person I remember coming up with the theory.

justin3009

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #189 on: November 28, 2008, 02:51:29 pm »
I kind of agree Serge.  There were a lot of people complaining going "DALTON CAN'T DO THIS OR THAT, HE'S TOO IDIOTIC!".  Well, this isn't a slap in the face, it's a FALCONNNN PUNCHHH to the face.

Romana

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #190 on: November 28, 2008, 06:51:02 pm »
I kind of agree Serge.  There were a lot of people complaining going "DALTON CAN'T DO THIS OR THAT, HE'S TOO IDIOTIC!".  Well, this isn't a slap in the face, it's a FALCONNNN PUNCHHH to the face.

Agreed. Stupid /b/tards, thinking they're God or w/e.

To be fair, it was (and kinda still is) hard to believe Dalton of all people bringing down a kingdom.

Dark Serge

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #191 on: November 28, 2008, 07:02:25 pm »
I kind of agree Serge.  There were a lot of people complaining going "DALTON CAN'T DO THIS OR THAT, HE'S TOO IDIOTIC!".  Well, this isn't a slap in the face, it's a FALCONNNN PUNCHHH to the face.

Agreed. Stupid /b/tards, thinking they're God or w/e.

To be fair, it was (and kinda still is) hard to believe Dalton of all people bringing down a kingdom.

Well considering he was the only enemy they had left who was alive it's not all that weird

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #192 on: November 28, 2008, 08:22:29 pm »
I kind of agree Serge.  There were a lot of people complaining going "DALTON CAN'T DO THIS OR THAT, HE'S TOO IDIOTIC!".  Well, this isn't a slap in the face, it's a FALCONNNN PUNCHHH to the face.

Agreed. Stupid /b/tards, thinking they're God or w/e.

To be fair, it was (and kinda still is) hard to believe Dalton of all people bringing down a kingdom.

Well considering he was the only enemy they had left who was alive it's not all that weird

I don't think so. The fact that Dalton was sent though the gate with no knowledge about Porre or Guardia make it even harder to believe. Even if he had gotten to the correct year, how would he knew Guardia Kingdom had a connection with them?

Actually, how does he knew that attacking Guardia would affect at least one of them?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 08:26:05 pm by Acacia Sgt »

Dark Serge

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #193 on: November 28, 2008, 08:47:47 pm »
Magus told them a lot about them as the prophet, probably. At least that they came from the modern age. Guardia being the only kingdom there, it wouldn't be hard for Dalton to figure out.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #194 on: November 28, 2008, 08:49:52 pm »
And who's to say Dalton didn't do some time traveling before he ended up at the Dimensional Distortion?