I am working off quotes from the game, not the compendium. The compendium is useful as a reference in a discussion like this, but quotes from the actual game hold more relevance. I also tried to separate my personal opinions (that his personality leads me to believe he would be a poor leader) from my corrections to your statement (that Dalton built the Ocean Palace and the Blackbird) in the last post though it doesn't seem like you took it in that way.
I just combed the script of the game for references to the construction of the Blackbird and the Ocean Palace. I am only posting the relevant ones (to keep the thread short) but heck if you want I'll post all the quotes that mention either.
"Indeed!
That great aeroplane «Blackbird,»
which Belthasar built.
When it soars in the sky, it looks alive!
Belthasar is truly a genius!"
...I see no mention of Dalton. At. All.
"The Earthbound Ones are being allowed
to work on the construction of the
Palace.
So they do have a purpose after all."
"Even Belthasar is gone, after designing
the Blackbird and the Ocean Palace.
How strange that the 3 Gurus who
guide Zeal have all disappeared."
"The Queen's aide, Dalton, was in charge
of the Ocean Palace, until some
traveling prophet took over.
He's in a bad mood so you should avoid
him."
I can't find any quote whatsoever in the script that says anything about Dalton doing any work on the Blackbird, and the only mention of him with the Ocean Palace is the above quote.
Now the Ocean Palace quote above can be taken a few different ways. As Dalton is in charge of the security force of Zeal, I assumed that it meant he was supervising the construction from a military standpoint, not actively participating in the construction. Your millage may vary from that quote of course. But regardless he was taken off the project
I seriously doubt that could be the only reason. Zeal is an intelligent kingdom. They only had a queen who was drunk with power. Another point where did those golems come from. Who says that a mage can't defeat them. They were quite easy to me. As long as you used lightning on them both they don't hurt all that bad.
I never once said that those were the only reasons he has his position. I was simply listing positive things about Dalton at that point, as I'm not just trying to focus on the negative. And that second part of your quote seems to be arguing against Dalton's effectiveness (or at least his golem's effectiveness). Remember Crono and crew are powerful, considerably more powerful in my estimation then the average Zealian citizen.
Completely unimportant. You seem think that his personality is the most important thing. Determination is a powerful feeling. He DESPISES the Chrono Team! Your saying that his buffoonery is so ridiculous that he couldn't win. I think that is a total underestimation. And remember Kato always does what you least expect.
Oh, and military is security, not just striking other countries. Or at least in the U.S.A. it's not defined as just striking other countries.
Before I go into what you are saying on determination, I'll clarify that I never said ANYTHING about Dalton's Security Force not being military, that was another poster. So take that up with them and don't try to attribute it to me.
A persons personality is completely unimportant? That seems to be a rather hefty statement, especially in a game where I would argue a character's personality is one of the most driving forces in the game. I would also argue that his determination is part of Dalton's personality, not a separate entity.
Determination is a powerful thing, and not once did I say 'Dalton did not aid Porre'. We are discussing his involvement and I corrected you about his constructing the Ocean Palace and Blackbird, then stated my own opinions. Dalton is a powerful combatant, I give him credit for that. Dalton's personality seems to make him seem like a poor leader, there is quite a bit of evidence in the game to that effect, and ignoring that evidence doesn't convince anyone of what he did do to aid Porre. Porre doesn't seem to make use of widespread 'true' magic use, so Dalton either only taught the highest commanders or kept it for his own use (heck is it even teachable? In Zeal it seemed more like you were born with it's use, so he might be unable to teach it). Dalton's golems would make him a powerful figure to inspire his troops (imagine Dalton yelling 'foreward!' to his troops as he summons his golems to decimate the Guardia front line).
You seem to take offense at what I was saying while missing my entire point. I was not saying his 'buffonery is so ridiculous he couldn't win'. I never said that at all. Porre overthrows Guardia. Dalton aids Porre in overthrowing Guardia. I have never argued that point. That is all we know of though, anything else is conjecture at this point, and ignoring what little we do know of Dalton (his poor personality) seems as ludicrous to me as when the pro-Guardia side ignore Dalton's powerful role in combat. If we are really to judge what role Dalton played we need to consider everything we know of him, positive or negative. We do not know what role Dalton played; whether he was their leader, their general, a manipulator from behind the scenes, a figurehead, or what. I didn't argue that he couldn't kill Crono/Marle in this thread, nor did I say he COULD for that matter.
What I said in my last post was regarding Dalton's ability to effectively lead a country, and I think I made some decent points.
Heck one last quote on the subject, from the mouth of one of his own guards.
"[Guard]
Dalton doesn't have what it takes to be
a king."
Certainly not. A inspirational figurehead possibly, a powerful combatant definitely, but a King? Not to me, but maybe to others. And that's ok, because until a new game comes out the only thing we have are a whole lot of questions and theories, and very few answers. And if we are gonna come up with some good theories we need to use everything we know of Dalton, and not just the side that supports your personal theory (and I'm directing that at both sides). We need to look at everything about the character if we are going to surmise what he did in the rise of Porre.
