Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)

[Kamiyu Bidan]

i think the only thing that can support Eclipse's Magus being from another dimension is that you can kill him in your current game and he'll still appear there and one of his lines "that i don't know if i joined forces with you in your world" (from the Japanese Script translation of Arc) that is if the fight with Dream Devourer with Crono and Co. is canon.

and about the prophet attire, i think that was just added for the mysterious effect (eventhough we all know who he is) and we must also put into consideration that Magus's Hood could have been used by him before, it was not something given to him by Zeal to reflect his Prophet status, that was used by Magus as a disguise because he didn't want anybody in Zeal to know who he was, we can also speculate that after Lavos' defeat, Magus could have journeyed with that hood intact and just showed his face to whoever it is necessary.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

You know what, though, there are plenty of unintentional plot holes (ie - "designer oversight") in the Chrono series.  To me, "Time Eclipse Magus" could just as easily be one of those unintentionals (as far as him still appearing despite killing him at the North Cape).

I'm still not comfortable with "Time Eclipse Magus" being from another dimension.  It's just too "deux ex machina" and random, and it has NO relevance to the plot whatsoever.  It just allows for too many "random intervals".

But that's just me.

[Kamiyu Bidan]

yes it might be just developer's oversight, i even think Frog being human (made us think Magus being alive is not canon!) in the ending animation was oversight too but i don't know who to blame (TOEI or SQUARE?) lol

we really need official info

Chrono Trigger - Perfect Bible FTW?

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Chrono Trigger - Perfect Bible FTW?

QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

We need to get on that shiz.

[justin3009]

I really don't think that will help.  It's just a gaming guide, I doubt it holds any plot relevance.  That's like trying to find Schala in a cereal box.

[Eske]

You know what, though, there are plenty of unintentional plot holes (ie - "designer oversight") in the Chrono series.  To me, "Time Eclipse Magus" could just as easily be one of those unintentionals (as far as him still appearing despite killing him at the North Cape).

I'm still not comfortable with "Time Eclipse Magus" being from another dimension.  It's just too "deux ex machina" and random, and it has NO relevance to the plot whatsoever.  It just allows for too many "random intervals".

But that's just me.

Understood but that is the opposite of what I'm saying  

？？？「ここには、もうラヴォスはいない。
ここはすでにラヴォスが倒された
未来の時空だ。
俺たちがヤツを滅ぼした。

???: Lavos is no longer here.
This is a future timespace where
Lavos has already been defeated.
We destroyed him.
[I find it curious that this future(?) Magus refers to himself throughout this ending as 'ore'--
Magus in the rest of CT refers to himself as 'watashi' everywhere but a single scene.]

Ｍａｇｕｓ「もっとも、お前たちが
やってきた世界で
俺たちが手を組んでいたかどうかは
知らぬがな。

Magus: Although I don't know
whether or not I joined forces
with you, in the world you come from.
[He said this to me with Magus in my party, so I assume he says the same thing no matter what.]

世界は、せんたくの数だけ存在する。

There are as many worlds out there as there are choices.

Ｍａｇｕｓ「この先で、新たな敵が
生まれようとしている。
この先に広がる、時の闇の底で。

Magus: Beyond [this Gate], a new
enemy is trying to come into being.
In the deepest depths of the Darkness
of Time beyond this point.

人の記憶を、夢を、想いを
喰らおうとしている...。

Time Eclipse Magus IS from the "original" dimension.  

1. The Player, making Choice A, defeats Lavos which allows...
2. Choice B: Player ignores Lavos and does the Time Eclipse event.

Magus A searches for Schala and ends up at Lavos's former "location".  Team B finds him there.

[Magus22]

Magus is in his Prophet garb because they've been reusing sprites and music for all the new features and it's nice and generically mysterious. Don't they use Johnny's theme for when Dalton shows up? Does that mean Dalton's really a robot biker from the future?

...You put down those sequel storyboards RIGHT NOW, KATO!

I would hope not...

There must be some reason behind it... why bother putting him in his prophet attire when they could have simply used Magus (sprite) himself? It makes no sense...

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Understood but that is the opposite of what I'm saying  Sad

I'm not saying I disagree with you, Eske.  I'm disagreeing with others' opinions I've seen here in the forums.  In fact, I pretty much am in agreement with you.  I, like you, think "Time Eclipse Magus" is actually just "Future Magus", due to the player's role.

I was moreso just voicing my opinion.   

[Lucca is Awesome]

I think that we also have to keep in mind is this:

Chrono Trigger is released. At the end we all had questions of: What happened to Schala? Did Magus ever finds her? What became of Crono and Crew after all is said and done? And more.

Debate, speculation, wishing for the next Chrono Trigger!

Chrono Cross is released. It answers some questions to the end of Chrono Trigger, but at the end of it all, even more questions arise. Too many to really list.

Debate, speculation, wishing for another Chrono Trigger!

Chrono Trigger is re-released. It answers some questions from CC, but at the end of it all, more questions arise.

Debate, speculation, wishing for another Chrono Trigger!

In the end, it boils down to, lather, rinse, repeat. We can speculate all that we want, and I must admit I love reading about it, but in the end it will be answered with the next game it seems.
Let's consider what we've seen thus far:

• Never would I have known or considered Dalton to be the one responsible for the rise of the Porre Army to attack Guardia. (There was speculation in the Compendium) That just came out of nowhere, but we didn't get this answered/confirmed until CT re-released. Which goes back that our questions will be answered one way or another it seems.
• Magus, is a wonderful character. His story is sad and tragic and we finally learn what happens to him in CT re-released. (It was so sad!) Now it makes us question the whole speculation of Magus = Guile and also, what exacley did happen? (I'll leave my thoughts on this for another time )
• Schala, I believe with each release, it seems that the story is about her. Her astral amulet causing the turn of the events that is Chrono Trigger. Queen Zeal, ordering and using her because of the sheer amount of power she had. The amount of sadness she kept inside vs. the amount of good she held in her heart splitting into two beings Harle/Kid speculation. Also what happened to her after Cross?
• New Speculation on the role of Marle, Chrono and Lucca. Were they the focal characters chosen by the planet to stop Lavos? Why were they the only ones that had clones? Why were they the ghosts that appeared to Serge?

It can go on and on! And we just love this game so much we can just talk about it all day . . . until bed time!

[Eske]

Understood but that is the opposite of what I'm saying  Sad

I'm not saying I disagree with you, Eske.  I'm disagreeing with others' opinions I've seen here in the forums.  In fact, I pretty much am in agreement with you.  I, like you, think "Time Eclipse Magus" is actually just "Future Magus", due to the player's role.

I was moreso just voicing my opinion.   

Oops lol sorry I misunderstood     And as for the "player's role" part, I definately agree.  I think a player-centric persepective is appropriate sometimes because I think that's the way Kato likes to view the games - if I'm reading those interviews correctly.

     

I think that we also have to keep in mind is this:

Chrono Trigger is released. At the end we all had questions of: What happened to Schala? Did Magus ever finds her? What became of Crono and Crew after all is said and done? And more.

Debate, speculation, wishing for the next Chrono Trigger!

Chrono Cross is released. It answers some questions to the end of Chrono Trigger, but at the end of it all, even more questions arise. Too many to really list.

Debate, speculation, wishing for another Chrono Trigger!

Chrono Trigger is re-released. It answers some questions from CC, but at the end of it all, more questions arise.

Debate, speculation, wishing for another Chrono Trigger!

In the end, it boils down to, lather, rinse, repeat. We can speculate all that we want, and I must admit I love reading about it, but in the end it will be answered with the next game it seems.
Let's consider what we've seen thus far:

• Never would I have known or considered Dalton to be the one responsible for the rise of the Porre Army to attack Guardia. (There was speculation in the Compendium) That just came out of nowhere, but we didn't get this answered/confirmed until CT re-released. Which goes back that our questions will be answered one way or another it seems.
• Magus, is a wonderful character. His story is sad and tragic and we finally learn what happens to him in CT re-released. (It was so sad!) Now it makes us question the whole speculation of Magus = Guile and also, what exacley did happen? (I'll leave my thoughts on this for another time )
• Schala, I believe with each release, it seems that the story is about her. Her astral amulet causing the turn of the events that is Chrono Trigger. Queen Zeal, ordering and using her because of the sheer amount of power she had. The amount of sadness she kept inside vs. the amount of good she held in her heart splitting into two beings Harle/Kid speculation. Also what happened to her after Cross?
• New Speculation on the role of Marle, Chrono and Lucca. Were they the focal characters chosen by the planet to stop Lavos? Why were they the only ones that had clones? Why were they the ghosts that appeared to Serge?

It can go on and on! And we just love this game so much we can just talk about it all day . . . until bed time!

While its true that we are just speculating.... its nice to see that the Compendium nailed the Dalton/Porre issue.  So maybe if we debate enough, we can get close to other answers      Here's hoping...

(I know I'm not the first to say it but SE definately jacked the Dalton idea from here. We all know it. Let's keep saying stuff so it can be included in the next game lol)

[ZeaLitY]

We got the idea from Kato's "help outside of time" and long-haired design for the guy in the 1005 A.D. cut scene, so it really belonged to Square all along.

[KebreI]

Although the idea of them stealing from us is flattering, ZeaLitY is right its Square. Every theory idea hear is based of clues and facts give in game thus all of them have a chance of being true, it was just Dalton's turn.

[Dark Serge]

Maybe they were planning to have Dalton behind it all along. Who knows.

[Toma XIII]

So, I've been one of those lurkers who've been reading through the compendium for years, but never actually commented on anything.  It gives me great pleasure to finally join in the discussion since everyone here puts plenty of thought into each of their posts.  It's a great thing to see.

So here's my question.  I'm a bit confused about how time gates tie in with dimensional vortices.  It was my understanding that if Chrono & Co alter the time line (no matter when they do so), the pre-alteration time line gets sent to the Dead Sea (or is it Sea of Eden--I always get them confused).  If that's the case, how can different dimensions exist?

To me, different dimensions represent events that could have happened, but if alternate time lines are sucked into the Dead Sea, then how can these different potentialities ever come to fruition?

I know I'm probably overlooking something really obvious, but I'd love some help with this one.

[Dark Serge]

The Dead Sea is still kinda a mystery. When Kid saves Serge the dimensions split. Is this the only time when dimensions split? Was it a special event that caused dimensions to split? Or do dimensions split everytime somebody makes an important decision? Or do they split when you travel back in time and change something?

Who knows.