Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)

[Eske]

Nope,  12000BC, post Lavos's rising was covered mostly in water, so the effects of his eruption cannot be seen but in 2300AD we see that ground zero became Death Peak.  That was only 301 years later.  A similar mountain would exist in 1000AD, 400 years after a proposed rising.

There is no proof that an eruption/rising creates a mountain. 

Fair enough.  There is no evidence suggesting that Lavos "exits" his pocket dimension because that would hinge on the pocket dimension existing in the first place.  So that portion of my argument is unnecessary.

[ZealKnight]

AHRG!!! One day spent studying and utunnels throws me out of the loop! Ok to make this easier why don't we all agree on a new name for Amnesia Magus? We'll call him Magil, just so it will be easier to follow? Can we agree on that?

And my question is Magus did summon him, but couldn't that just possibly mean he awakened it? Because, It would seem geologically correct that a Mountain would form. I say this because Lavos would have no reason to show itself to 600Kingdom Year other than Magus. So perhaps it just pulled a Ocean Palace on him.

[chrono eric]

Don't study man. Drop out. Drop out and play Chrono all day. You know you want to.

Fair enough.  There is no evidence suggesting that Lavos "exits" his pocket dimension because that would hinge on the pocket dimension existing in the first place.  So that portion of my argument is unnecessary.

The fact that Magus remembers them in 12,000 BC is a huge nail in the coffin for the PD theory. I can't believe we didn't think of that before. It makes me wonder what other insanely obvious things we haven't thought of.

So we can infer a few things from this fact -

1) Eclipse Magus had to come from a dimension in which he met Crono and co. and was sent to Zeal, thus initiating the New Ocean Palace disaster.

2) The events surrounding the fall of Zeal probably proceeded very similarly to how things happened in the dimension that the main game story takes place in.

3) The fact that Eclipse Magus mentions that they "may or may not have teamed up with him in their dimension" suggests that he did team up with Crono and co. in his. Otherwise why would he mention this? Plus, he would have been killed by them in the fight.

So, this evidence strongly suggests to me that Eclipse Magus is probably both from another dimension and from the future of that dimension.

[ZealKnight]

Well, does he mean the Future or the New Future? I'm assuming he means the changed Timeline.

[Eske]

Well, does he mean the Future or the New Future? I'm assuming he means the changed Timeline.

New future.   Since we can only access TE from New Game+ or an old save, it is most likely the Magus from our original playthrough, sometime in the near future  (as many have said before).

[ZealKnight]

Well, does he mean the Future or the New Future? I'm assuming he means the changed Timeline.

New future.   Since we can only access TE from New Game+ or an old save, it is most likely the Magus from our original playthrough, sometime in the near future  (as many have said before).

More over is it just after Lavos's defeat or actually the future as in 2400AD?

[Eske]

Well, just after Lavos's defeat, but Eclipse Magus could have been searching for a means to find Schala for 5 years or so, we'll never know.

The only thing that gives me the impression that its been at least a few years is his cold attitude towards the people who may or may not be the team that helped him defeat Lavos.   It seems like he doesn't care about them anymore.  (I know I know, he's Magus, he probably never cared blah blah - you know what I mean)

Or he is just probably aware that it is extremely unlikely that the Crono team he encounters is the one he once knew.

[chrono eric]

Or he is just probably aware that it is extremely unlikely that the Crono team he encounters is the one he once knew.

I think this is most likely. No doubt Eclipse Magus has learned quite a bit about time and dimensional travel in his journey to locate Schala. He may have even made contact with Belthesar - that certainly seems probable to me.

[Shadow D. Darkman]

Oh wait, I just thought of something. Magus wouldn't have to kill himself because he's already been killed by Lavos (or w/e happened to him originally in the K-1 timeline)...So all he'd need is a Time Egg and/or the bucket...

The only time in which Lavos killed Magus was in the castle during the Lavos Timeline. K-1 is CT changes + Another World events in Cross leading up to 1020 A.D. K-2 is CT changes + Home World events in Cross.

No, the Lavos timeline is K-1 unless I'm mistaken. Home & Another World are dimensional differences, not separate timelines.

No, K-1 is at least ONE of the main Keystone Timelines (even if the differences Home World's timeline and Another World's timeline are irrelevant), therefore it is a timeline in which at least one of Crono's actions occur. The Lavos Timeline was never given an abbreviation, unless it occurred recently and I did not learn of it.

The reason I consider Home World and Another World separate timelines is because of the differences in events, such as Dario's fate, whether Radius became Chief Of Arni or not, etc. If anything, Home World is a separate timeline because of the split.

EDIT: Going back through the Encyclopedia to verify all this. Will edit as necessary.

EDIT 2: It's possible that you may have been referring to Keystone T-1 (which contains both the ruined future and the new future, the difference being whether or not Lavos is dead in 1999 A.D.

[chrono eric]

Technically Home and Another World are separate dimensions, each dimension containing its' own timeline. You are right, Shadow. But he was most likely confused and thought that you meant they were separate timelines within the same dimension.

[placidchap]

Nope,  12000BC, post Lavos's rising was covered mostly in water, so the effects of his eruption cannot be seen but in 2300AD we see that ground zero became Death Peak.  That was only 301 years later.  A similar mountain would exist in 1000AD, 400 years after a proposed rising.

There is no proof that an eruption/rising creates a mountain. 

Fair enough.  There is no evidence suggesting that Lavos "exits" his pocket dimension because that would hinge on the pocket dimension existing in the first place.  So that portion of my argument is unnecessary.

But then again, Lavos erupting from the crust in an upward fashion may have inverted the area it was resting in, creating a mountain as Lavos rose from the Earth...and yea I think that PD stuff is so 5 years ago.

[Shadow D. Darkman]

Very well, then, explain the weird blue place you fight him in. It's even seen in the FMV of Crono's death.

[Eske]

Very well, then, explain the weird blue place you fight him in. It's even seen in the FMV of Crono's death.

Even Robo mentions in-game that there is "dimensional instability" whenever we are around Lavos.
Lavos's power simply distorts the area around him.   When he retreats far into the shell, we see the ground visible beneath it.  (defeat shell, then return to 1999 version)

The PD theory always assumed too much in my opinion.

Also, the Mammon Machine, filled with Lavos's energy, creates a similar field.

[ryu planeswalker]

Very well, then, explain the weird blue place you fight him in. It's even seen in the FMV of Crono's death.

Elemental Field?

[Shadow D. Darkman]

Meh, that was for Chap to do, but Eske is the most convincing.

When he retreats far into the shell, we see the ground visible beneath it.  (defeat shell, then return to 1999 version)

I always wondered about that. I figure now maybe they were trying not to cut you off from the Gate if you got second thoughts after choosing "Fight!" but before you actually went in.