Is Guile an amnesiac post-CTDS Magus?

[Vehek]

Your FIRST link "http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Kid_(Arrival_of).html" was nothing about Radical Dreamers Kid.

Oh? So this is "Arrival of Kid" then?

Hate to say it, but that really is Schala, not Kid.

http://chronocompendium.com/Term/Kid.html

[Dark Serge]

That was Shadow's link, not mine

[Shadow D. Darkman]

That was me, dude.

[Ken-san]

New theory:

- Party "A" from Dimension "A" beats Lavos, and you get the normal DS ending.

- Party "B" from Dimension "B" is seeking to beat Lavos, but since Lavos resides in a pocket dimension (pocket dimension theory is only stronger now thanks to having different dimension characters in CT DS), he was already killed by party "A", creating the Time's Eclipse.

- This would mean that "Eclipse Magus" (let's use that name) could actually be the original one from party "A" (the one that defeated Lavos and went back to 12,000 BC), but not "B" (the one in your party at the ending, who never defeated Lavos), or he could be from unknown C, D or E dimensions...

This would mean that in CT DS you play as party "A" all the game, but after finishing the game, you control party "B". And I guess we could call New Game+ characters C, D, etc...

This would make some sense in having the ending show the characters defeat Lavos, split, and have Guardia fall, but after that show another party seeking to fight Lavos... it is indeed still an alternative ending, and what do you need for an alternative ending? that's right! an alternative party!



The Time's Eclipse doesn't  open until you finish the 3 dungeon things, right? Anyone has any idea on what's the relevance of these? I haven't played till there, not enough time ;_;

As interesting a possibility this one might be there's one thing you have to consider, the original party (the one you call "A") could have been the one who defeated the Dream Devourer, thus no need for a "B" party, if you recall, after you beat the Lavos cores the screen goes blank and next you are shown the morning when Crono is called to the castle, what happened in the meantime? Allow me to remind you that in the ending all of your party plus a few other people (Doan, Kino, the other King Guardia) are all in year 1000 A.D. so that means all the members of your party went to year 1000 A.D. So the events of the new ending could have happened after the defeat of Lavos but before the last day of the Millenial fair since you still have all your party with you, maybe Robo noticed the Vortex that appeared in year 1000 A.D. and they decided to see what was going on. The one damn little thing that gets in the way of this possibility is that Marle shouldn't have to ask Magus if he's going to search for Shala since they should know where she is...

[Umaro]

Eclipse Magus being post-RD Magus makes the most sense to me. His personality is much more similar to Magil than CT Magus.
Eclipse Magus is also far more emotive. CT Magus barely mentions Schala throughout the game. Eclipse Magus screams and pleads with Schala. He didn't seem to show that much concern for her throughtout CT; it was all about killing Lavos. I think his dialougue, "here, Lavos is no more. This is the future in which we've defeated him. Whether that is the future of the world from which you've come, I do not know. There are as many worlds as there are potentialities," lends itself to the theory that he is not the Magus the party knows.

As for Magus being Guile, I'm not going to make any definite decisions just yet, but that's what it seems like the game is leaning towards.

"So, you mean to say that no matter how hard I strive--no matter how strong I grow--there is nothing I might do to save you? What purpose, then, does this existence serve? Hmph. If this is to be the way of things, then let me abandon all that was and fade away as well. Should a part of me somehow even then remain, then perhaps that will be the birth of something new--something with greater meaning than all of this."

I know this tie-in is tenuous at best, but the last part about "if a part of me should somehow even remain" makes me believe the game is alluding to Guile being that leftover part. Someone said something along the lines of "Guile is Magus in body but not in mind." I think that sums it up well. Guile is not really Magus, because what made Magus "Magus" was done away with in the Darkness Beyond Time. I don't think "amnesiac" is even the word. Magus is, essentially, dead. Guile is all that remains. At the very least, I like to believe this because it explains why Magus is suspiciously absent from CC. 

[mikeb123]

Not only does he sound like magil, but he seems to have an extensive knowledge of magic greater than magus, like magil. How else would he find a way into time's eclipse by himself? Also, I thought that either Schala erased his memories or the dd fed on what you called "what made magus magus"( his thoughts, dreams, and memories). Though I think there is still hope to regain his identity as he vaguely remembers his life goal after the battle with the dd

[Shadow D. Darkman]

Good point, Umaro. That puts two Januses in the Keystone Timeline (not counting the dimensional split for obvious reasons).

Janus A - Travels with the party. Meets his double from an alternate future, where Lavos has already fallen.

Janus B - Alternate-Future Janus, who is seen in Time's Eclipse. Entered Time's Eclipse from a timeline where the Time Egg was received from Gaspar, but is ultimately not used to resurrect Crono. Janus B discovers that Schala is alive as RD Kid and becomes "Magil Of The Shadows" so he can watch over her. After the Viper Manor Incident, in which Kid discovers her identity as Schala, he helps her get on her feet, and then goes back to prevent her from ever becoming Kid. He winds up in Time's Eclipse, and meets the party, which has his past self (Magus) among them. He leaves them behind to defeat the Dream Devourer on his own, and is defeated. After the party fails to defeat the Dream Devourer and is sent away by Schala, he confers with his older sister, who knows who he is, before also being sent away. he realizes his efforts are in vain and resets himself, erasing his memories, personality, all of it.

Janus A's fate - wanders the Period Of Antiquity in search of Schala, not remembering what happened at Time's Eclipse.

Janus B's fate - wanders the Present with amnesia. Becomes Guile, the mysterious magician. Joins Serge in destroying the Time Devourer.

[maggiekarp]

Magil is slightly more emotive than Magus but there's no MOTIVE, he's got his Schala again by the end of RD, and there was no Time Devourer in his timeline.

[mikeb123]

But what if he prefers a kind and protective Schala over an abrasive one from a different upbringing? And by entering time's eclipse and the dimensional vortexes, what if the party changed the future of the rd world like how Serge not dying changed the outcome of homeworlds future?

[maggiekarp]

Well keeping in mind that RD came out before Kato decided to screw with the series, there was no time's eclipse, there was no Time Devourer. Magil took care of Kid from the time she was around 10, and if you want to really get into it, Schala was the sister to Janus, but Kid is the sister to Magus/Magil. Kid's personality in RD was that of Schala's pre-CTDS, but with a mental wall put up similar to Janus's Magus. She had that softer side to her throughout RD, and it probably only intensified once she discovered her true identity.


[edit]edited slightly to remove redundancy that there was too much of so I had to edit it to get rid of the redundancy

[LavosFan]

But what if he prefers a kind and protective Schala over an abrasive one from a different upbringing? And by entering time's eclipse and the dimensional vortexes, what if the party changed the future of the rd world like how Serge not dying changed the outcome of homeworlds future?

What the hell? If Magil did something like this I would have no choice but to call him a jerk.

"Oh, I don't like this Schala, screw her, I'll go get me a new one" Doesm't sound like Magil at all.

I also don't see how entering the DBT or Time Eclipse affects the RD dimension.

That was me, dude.

You do realize that there was a a post just before saying that exact same thing?

[Shadow D. Darkman]

That was me, dude.

You do realize that there was a a post just before saying that exact same thing?

Uhh... Yeah. What's your beef?

[mikeb123]

But after devoting your entire life to something, good enough wouldn't cut it for someone like him. And besides, Schala and kid were two very differen't figures in his life. Schala was the only thing he ever held dear and saving her would be much more resolution to him than accepting the Schala he loved and looked up to in his childhood was gone. And it's not the aspect of "getting a new Schala, it's getting the old one back. Also, I was suggesting that one of the dimensions in the dvs was in the rd world

[LavosFan]

Yes, but they're still the same person, not someone different, atleast in RD, and it seems horribly egotistical to go around changing people just because they're not what "they used to be" <.<
Plus, you didn't address maggiekarp's good points.

Uhh... Yeah. What's your beef?

No beef, just pointing it out because spamming is usually annoying. This isn't a chatroom you know.

[maggiekarp]

So you're saying rather than helping out Schala's "reincarnation", the goddamn Magus would pout about it not being exactly the same, go to a completely different dimension (since in Magil's one, Schala didn't need saving), then commit mental suicide when it didn't work out this time, even though he's shown to have failed tons of times and still persevere?