Is Guile an amnesiac post-CTDS Magus?

[art_garfunkel]

This deserves its own topic.

The short (and highly opinionated) answer is no.

If Guile is Magus, then it's a completely underwhelming appearance by one of the Chrono series' best characters. There is no evidence to support this idea. I agree that there is no direct evidence against it either, however I feel that having Guile be Magus makes the ending of Cross frustratingly anti-climactic.

Now, all you believers, bring it on.

[Dark Serge]

Dude, the reason is because years and years ago they didn't know they would make Magus Guile yet. Start paying attention to CT DS. They're rewriting the canon. Before long, they will make a Cross remake / sequel that confirms how Guile is Magus.

[FaustWolf]

I think art_garfunkel is actually Masato Kato in disguise (because using the name "Art Garfunkel" is less obvious than jumping on the Compendium as "Masato Kato"), and we're all going to get trounced in this argument. However, I'll have a go.

We have to take Kato at his word when he reported that Magus was meant to be in Chrono Cross, and then replaced by Guile. That's our starting point. So let's reproduce the interview question and answer here, courtesy of the Compendium's interview section:

Is there any connection between Guile in CC and Magus in CT? Both use black magic, have purple hair, and float. The only difference that I can tell is their dress and the fact that Guile uses a staff. I was thinking that they could both be different adult versions of Janus (from CT). Of course, it's been a while since playing CC, so I could be totally wrong. There are some other character connections (I.E. Frog and Glenn) but Guile and Magus raises the most questions. Thanks for the great game.

Masato Kato: To let the cat out of the bag, in the early stages of development, Guile was indeed meant to be Magus. In our original plan, the true identity of Guile was supposed to be Magus after the events in Trigger. (At the end of Trigger, Magus [a.k.a. Janus in Trigger and Magil in Radical Dreamers] disappeared into a Time Gate to go searching for his big sister, Schala, who was lost somewhere in time.) However, as the game's development progressed and we decided to use such a huge number of playable characters, we decided not to make him be Magus. We thought it was impossible to portray the relationship between Magus and Schala adequately in this game. So we changed tracks, made the colors of the Magus character design paler, and turned him into Guile, the magician. In a way, it's a pity, as I really would like to have seen the valiant figure of Magus come to life again.

I think Kato always regretted that decision ("...it's a pity, as I really would like to have seen the valiant figure of Magus come to life again..."), and now he's found a way to tie Magus back into the plotline. In short, Guile wasn't Magus until now.

Kato's further explanation will require Chrono Cross: PSP, and I'm proud to present what very likely is the first series of preview videos for that game, seeing as the Compendium seems to have a knack for prediction.

Chrono Cross PSP? Video 1
Chrono Cross PSP? Video 2
Chrono Cross PSP? Video 3

[Dark Serge]

I do hope it will be DS, since otherwise I'll have to buy a PSP. But I'm saving money just in case

[Acacia Sgt]

I do hope it will be DS, since otherwise I'll have to buy a PSP. But I'm saving money just in case

Me too. Although right now I have the money, I usually don't buy a new console for just one game. But who knows, if the game is good enough, I may do. And considering it is Chrono Cross, then I will.

[KebreI]

Yes and no. He is Magus in body as but in mind no he is his own man. If this engima happened to be future Magus then he would remember nothing, so there is no conflict in the story. What if a memory wipe was just that a removal, destruction, not just hiding them or changing them. His body lived, but he died.

If a new game was to surface and explain Magus, how tragic it would be if this, for lack of a better word, random traveler is the "fiendlord" and never did and never will know it. In fact CC did a great job at making him NOT Magus, but Guile

[ZeaLitY]

Future Magus from another dimension might be Guile, or something.

It's hard to pin this down until we make a conclusion on Time's Eclipse, Future Magus's origin, and all the TTI / TB issues that are going to come in here...I'm already sympathetic to Chrono'99's "this is just a view from NG+" theory since eeeeeeverything in the Chrono series contradicts being able to see a future version of yourself from a time traveling perspective.

[mav]

In short, Guile wasn't Magus until now.

That's the answer I'm going with m'self. Now, whether this is the same Magus as the one from your party is another story. Like ZeaLitY said, seeing a future version of one's self is impossible, so perhaps this is Magus from another time line. He seems to be at a bit of a disconnect when he meets Crono and co, and doesn't even seem affected if Magus is in your party. This Magus, possibly unrelated to the exploits of Crono and co, goes on to become Guile--a man without an identity and apparently no recollections of his own past.

What baffles me is that Guile was not supposed to be Magus, but it always seemed to fit: Guile (a word defined as skillful deceit) garbs himself in a mask, as if hiding his own identity, and is fairly disconnected to those around him: he's the shell of a man without his own identity.

[FaustWolf]

Didn't Janus see a future version of himself when he encountered the Prophet in Zeal? I figured it worked the same way here.

[Dark Serge]

Didn't Janus see a future version of himself when he encountered the Prophet in Zeal? I figured it worked the same way here.

Indeed. Even if he didn't know it was himself, doesn't really matter. If that was possible, why isn't it possible that Magus in your party sees the man he will eventually become?

[Chrono'99]

Didn't Janus see a future version of himself when he encountered the Prophet in Zeal? I figured it worked the same way here.

Indeed. Even if he didn't know it was himself, doesn't really matter. If that was possible, why isn't it possible that Magus in your party sees the man he will eventually become?

Because the Magus "in your party" might have already died at North Cape. I didn't play through the game yet but reports from various forums suggest that the Dream Devourer scene is the same whether you recruited Magus or killed him.

[mav]

Hmmm...this can't be the first time anyone's noted that Janus seeing Prophet Magus had virtually no effect on Magus...Did they ever actually see each other though? Or were they always in different locations within the same time period?

[KebreI]

Well isn't the reason Janus be with Magus because he has yet to be subject to The laws of time travel? So if Magus and Future Magus were together then wouldn't that mean that it wasn't via time travel but dimensional travel.

[radicalblues]

Hmmm...this can't be the first time anyone's noted that Janus seeing Prophet Magus had virtually no effect on Magus...Did they ever actually see each other though? Or were they always in different locations within the same time period?

The Prophet and Janus were shown together in Chrono Trigger, in the Mammon Machine room.

If it's true that Future Magus still appears if you kill Magus, I think it's given that he's from another dimension, and the "we" that he's referring to when talking about killing Lavos, is another group of people.

It can't be just lack of detail, CT always pays attention even to the slightest details: number of cats you have in the ending, Frog being human or not, Lara walking or not... I don't think they would just let slip Magus being alive or not... and while the "we defeated" line is confusing, Future Magus DOES say that they're probably not from the same dimension, why would Kato even mention dimensions if it wasn't the case?

[ZeaLitY]

Didn't Janus see a future version of himself when he encountered the Prophet in Zeal? I figured it worked the same way here.

The Magus we know and love didn't, since Chrono Trigger / The Prophet hadn't happened yet. The Janus who does see him gets the Time Bastard shaft. So, if we'd been playing the game of Magus's life, we'd only have seen the original Ocean Palace incident.