Author Topic: Is Magus truly a Prophet?  (Read 10332 times)

swift

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Is Magus truly a Prophet?
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2005, 01:09:14 pm »
The Magus' castle disappears after you defeat him and Lavos open that huge gate.

Quote from: V_Translanka
Also, if it were just Magus's mental state, would it also transfer to Schala?


If Magus is a schizo or something, are you suggesting that also Schala would share the same mental problem because they're brothers?

SilentMartyr

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Is Magus truly a Prophet?
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2005, 02:44:29 pm »
Quote from: swift
The Magus' castle disappears after you defeat him and Lavos open that huge gate.

Quote from: V_Translanka
Also, if it were just Magus's mental state, would it also transfer to Schala?


If Magus is a schizo or something, are you suggesting that also Schala would share the same mental problem because they're brothers?


coughSIBLINGScough

Not necessarily, if whatever this impled condition is it is most likely genetic. So if it is a recessive trait Schala wouldn't have it garunteed if Janus had it.

Zaperking

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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2005, 05:35:24 am »
Quote from: swift
The Magus' castle disappears after you defeat him and Lavos open that huge gate.

Quote from: V_Translanka
Also, if it were just Magus's mental state, would it also transfer to Schala?


If Magus is a schizo or something, are you suggesting that also Schala would share the same mental problem because they're brothers?



Schala isn't a guy! HOW DARE YOU DISGRACE SCHALA!!!

*Die hard Schala Fan*

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2005, 05:14:50 pm »
Quote from: CTcronoboy
Quote from: swift
The Magus' castle disappears after you defeat him and Lavos open that huge gate.

Quote from: V_Translanka
Also, if it were just Magus's mental state, would it also transfer to Schala?


If Magus is a schizo or something, are you suggesting that also Schala would share the same mental problem because they're brothers?


coughSIBLINGScough

Not necessarily, if whatever this impled condition is it is most likely genetic. So if it is a recessive trait Schala wouldn't have it garunteed if Janus had it.

Firstly, regarding the Janus and Schala being 'brothers' thing, I honestly think that it was just a typo on the guy's part, and he meant 'siblings'...but that's beside the point.
To my mind, I'd see Schala, at least post-Chrono Cross, as suffering from the same metal problems, as it were, that Magus is. Furthermore, it is doubful that his are 'problems', per say, as it is rather a darkness brought about by ceaseless thoughts of vengeance, and dark learning. He feels the shadows of the Demon in Zeal, and later, being obsessed with his quest, gives no thought to others. But he is not schitzophrenic or mentally unstable, however bitter and dark he may be: he knows truth from illusion, knows how to act in courtly manners when it suits his ends (see Radical Dreamers), and is not unlearned... only quick to anger and overprideful. I'd think him not even so nasty as such rulers like Assyrian Ashurbanipal, and certainly not nearly so evil as Vlad the Impaler. Even Alexader the Great himself had greater ambitions and desire for conquest. I would think him less dark than he makes out, and that bitterness of his being only a superficial charcter trait. Schala, on the other hand, has it far worse, is nastier, darker, and more powerful, than even her much maligned brother. Not in Zeal, to be sure, and neither her incarnation as Kid, but after all of that. I have difficulty believing that even the CC could heal her fully, and that she comes out of that torment without any scars to show for it.
So, essentially, I would wager that both of the children of the Queen of Zeal share the same mind, and both from the same root, that is, Lavos in his various guises (for Janus the folly-ridden path of vengeance he gives his life to, for Schala her eternal torment in the Tesseract.) The only difference between the two would be that Schala, being somewhat more wise than her younger brother, would have more restraint, and be able to hide it. Does any of this make sense? I explored that in better words in my story, this idea of Janus and Schala having a similar bloodlust and the like. It would probably be best to use those words; they exemplify what I mean better, and are more clear:

"And to this title you must promptly add 'Janus the hot headed fool who thinks to much of himself,'" Schala replied. "Had Zeal endured, I should have been queen in my turn; if you lament the loss of such captainship, look only at what fate has wrested from me: the rule of the greatest kingdom the world has ever seen. Such things were not our destiny. And perhaps it was well, for if history is to be judge of your leadership, you would be found lacking."

With a blaze of anger in his eyes he said:

"That was merely a means to my end. I have told you this many a time. History has vindicated me of fault, for my sole desire was not the ruin of Guardia, nor mastery and lordship of the lands, but to rise in power."

"For vengeance," she said wearily, plainly having heard the very words from him many times before.

"Yes, vengeance. For me, for the world, and for our fallen land. How else could I build my power to such strength with which I could challenge the Demon? I did as the Mystics had me do, and led them along their path so long as it suited my own designs. And did I not make good on my intent, sister? Did I not summon Lavos himself to my fortress to do battle with him?"

"Yes, as a fool, my brother, for surely you failed. By rights you should be dead now. For we all know that after that day the Mystic armies faltered, and their beloved Magus never returned."

He glowered at her, saying:

"That fate is gone forever; I am not dead now, and so I did not die then. And even if that was once my destiny, fate had me die a noble death, for it was in saving the world that I perished."

"Do not colour your mis-truths so lightly, Janus," she said, and her voice was one of gentle, sisterly, reproach. "You cared nothing for the world, and your only desire was to pay due to your enemy the injustice it had dealt out upon you. There was no holy honour in your self-serving vengeance."

"There are times when one must worry only about oneself, and dismiss the fate of others, if only to survive. Think you it an easy thing to cast pity from one's heart, and to force oneself to dissemble all kind emotion and caring? To not weep tears at the death of friends, to make one's lips laugh at cruelty and the drawing of blood, to perforce live a life of bloodlust and deal harshly, and even evilly, with those near? I walked those paths for so long, I can even now scarce see any other way to live. But I am not by nature evil: those things pained me deeper than words can tell, and I still bear remorse for every one of my misdeeds; I only justify myself through purpose and end. But am I not changed, now? Sister, why must you always deride me so? Can I do nothing with pure intent in your sight? Am I still the Sorcerer to your eyes?"

"I remind you of your place, Janus, and restrain your pride. But for me you would cease all caution. You are mighty, in some ways more so than I myself am, but lack the wariness that proceeds from wisdom. Take care, and learn this."

For a moment it seemed to Serge that Janus would protest bitterly. But he did not. Nor did he glare in vehemence as he often did. Instead he lowered his eyes, as if in shame over the rebuke.

"Perhaps you speak truly. My heart cannot abandon its old pride, no matter how bitterly I struggle against it. Lavos, and my folly ridden vengeance, have left their marks deep, I am afraid."


That was regarding Janus. Also, regarding Schala, and the way I think she would be post-Chrono Cross...

“You think ill of him for it? Serge, do not fault him too much: he has suffered the span of his life. Remember what he has said: Lavos has left a deep scar. He knows his own follies well enough, I dare-say, but cannot act contrary to what is his nature. I am certain he repents most bitterly every day of his vehemence and anger, but is cursed with being ever in thrall to it. And this, too: if you would judge him, you must do the very same against me, for he and I are not so far removed of mind.”

“No, you’re quite different,” Serge said quite adamantly. “He’s very bitter with nearly everyone, even his friends; I’m glad that I can usually avoid him. But you seem calm, and...”

“You have said it! I seem one way. But, Serge, twixt, how I appear and how I truly am there is a great disparity, as it is with many things. Be wary in this world, and discern closely. For my mood is nearly the same as his,” she said with a deep sigh. “I but dissemble it through a greater will, and allow what wisdom is mine to overrule foolish and misleading passion.”

“I still don’t believe it,” Serge replied. But he saw or, rather, took a nearer note of his memory, thinking for the first the grim tone in which Schala spoke of some things.

“Have you never looked into my eyes?” she said to his disbelief. “Have you never seen that evil flame that burns within me?”

He nodded, and to his mind come the memory of her fell battle-mood. He had wondered about it at the time, but the continuing war had driven it from his mind. Only now did he think on it again.

“I am still a slave to that evil,” she said softly. “And ever I am on the brink of falling to its corruption, and so I must always guard myself. That is why I do not welcome this new war. I do not wish to give that darkness a free hand to overcome me. And my heart forewarns me that if battle should fall upon us, which seems now a certainty, it will be difficult to restrain all my dark strength. This is even as it is for Janus, who is still a slave to his own dark will at times.”

“Kid,” he said, stressing her younger name, perhaps without thought saying it in the uncertainty of this dark talk, “how can you compare yourself to him? I’ve never heard you say anything wrong of anybody.”

“Not with voice, no. But if you mark my eyes, the disdain is there nonetheless. To most my words are but lies or, rather, I say what I deem I should say, rather than what I feel and wish. I abhor the weakness that is shown by this rabble of peasants, though my reason tells me it is a groundless and dark pride, and only a grain of memory of my princess-hood grown to over-bearing pride through the corrupting touch of Lavos. But sins of the mind are no less grievous than those of speech.”

“But your brother’s way more critical and proud than you ever are, I’m sure,” Serge insisted, but Schala only said:

“Ha! Is he, now? Again, Serge, you would be much mistaken if you think that that which is put forth in words is the only truth. To you I hold no ill feelings, but I am not as joyful as I may appear. Schala is every bit as bitter as Janus is,” she paused a moment, then said: “No, the darkness is deeper. My brother had his mind tainted by ill teaching of sorcery and ceaseless thoughts of dark vengeance. But I, Schala of Zeal, am far darker than he, for I was joined with the blackest evil to ever afflict this world. If Lavos has left a mark upon Janus, how much more has he left a scar upon me. But for Kid, I would not be so much different than he is. Her righteousness, and Schala’s wisdom, are perhaps the only things that hold the evil in guard.”

She turned from Serge.

“Pray for my sake, and all those whom I might call enemy, that they never fail.”


To my view, Lavos messes up and corrupts a lot of things, these two mighty ones being among them.

Zaperking

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« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2005, 05:43:52 pm »
^
I don't think that Schala would have suffered any mental problems other than losing faith in people for a while. She was encaged inside that magic barrier, riding on Lavos' back. My theory is that she used some of her magic to protect her while Lavos was trying to fuse with her. She did look kinda peaceful sleeping inside that barrier. Anything that she did like cause the magnetic storm was pure dreaming, which came to life. It would make sence since CC is based all on dreaming, and Schala could have easily drempt the whole saving herself thing by herself.

Schala also always seems to have alot of mental strength vs things. She did always resist going with the who Lavos-is-better-than-the-sun-stone project in Zeal. She was just to good of a daughter to abandon her mother, who would even kill her for immortality.

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2005, 05:48:49 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
^
I don't think that Schala would have suffered any mental problems other than losing faith in people for a while. She was encaged inside that magic barrier, riding on Lavos' back. My theory is that she used some of her magic to protect her while Lavos was trying to fuse with her. She did look kinda peaceful sleeping inside that barrier. Anything that she did like cause the magnetic storm was pure dreaming, which came to life. It would make sence since CC is based all on dreaming, and Schala could have easily drempt the whole saving herself thing by herself.

Schala also always seems to have alot of mental strength vs things. She did always resist going with the who Lavos-is-better-than-the-sun-stone project in Zeal. She was just to good of a daughter to abandon her mother, who would even kill her for immortality.

Ah, but Chrono Cross says differently, in that matter! Granted, she was good before, but what evil thing is in origin evil? Remember what Kid herself was: a last resort by Schala, before the Time Devourer fully corrupted her. So she must have been fully a part of that abominable thing; appearances can be deceiving, after all, and I doubt her seeming peace was representative of truth. She was, at that time, fully evil; her goodness had been overcome by the will of Lavos and, whatever strength she possessed was bent to the will of the Demon. That would be a terrible thing to endure and, as I said, I doubt that anybody could come through something like that unscathed, even through the use of that Dragon relic.

Sentenal

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« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2005, 08:52:43 pm »
I took it as Schala being sane till she was merged with Lavos to make the TD, at which point she made kid with the last sane part of her brain.  Kid and schala refusing at the end, along with the CC would probably have healed her.

razor's edge

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« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2005, 09:32:02 pm »
Quote from: Dain
Direa has the same power to see the wind that surrounds people, although she doesn't call it "black" wind.  So the power seems to exist outside the Zeal family.

Maybe Direa's power revolves around sensing people's wind, and trained to sense the wind, while Janus & family are able to sense the Black Wind only as a side-effect to their great magic ability.

Dain

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« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2005, 09:52:14 pm »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
It originates from Middle-Eastern lore; it's like to bad aura or wind that blows when someone has died or is near death.


Makes sense, since Magus runs a very strong parallel with Muhamad.

Actually, after some research, I've found that the black wind "huayra yana" is mentioned in a prophecy in which the ground shakes greatly and threatens to swallow the earth.  The black wind acts as an omen of this destruction.  Sounds familiar, no?

(The prophecy is called "usul" by the way, and is very signifigant to the stuff going on in the Middle-East today)

Ah, almost forgot:  Muhammad was also born in 571 Ad, so the periods of Magus' life and Muhammad's life are quite close. (I think Magus was 26 in 600 AD, but I don't know exactly how old he was when he went in the portal.)

Zaperking

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« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2005, 03:03:32 am »
Janus probably would have been around 7-9 when he was ported.

On the topic of Schala. The game indicates that she was healed even if she was not merged with Kid (which it seems like that she acctually was).

Any other debate on her not being healed would purely be superstition, but that isn't fun because I like debates.

But the game does kinda make it cure that the only way that Schala would ever be healed is only if the Chrono Cross works.. It does, Schala is healed.

And don't forget that the Chrono Cross is made up of the Tear of Love and the Tear of Hate. This resembles Kid and Schala. If Kid is the good (love) side of Schala's former mind, then if Schala (hate since thats all thats left) merges with Kid, it would be cliched to the Chrono Cross, in this way she probably becomes normal again.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2005, 07:52:00 am »
Magus was no fool. He made his living by being aware of his surroundings and surely he must have arched a brow when that strange trio of misfits showed up in his lair wielding the fully animate Masamune and fought him well enough to distract his attention ahead of the Lavos summon. When Magus was flung back to the Dark Ages, he probably ascertained quickly enough that Crono & Co. had not been flung along with him, but you can bet he expected them to find their way to Zeal someday. The sight of the Masamune must have particularly intrigued him in that regard.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2005, 01:14:11 pm »
He probably figured on some measure of time travel, being that only Melchior would've been able to fix it, and for all Magus knew, Melchior had died in Zeal.

Sentenal

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« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2005, 01:24:30 pm »
Magus did predict that Crono and co. would make their way to Zeal.  My memory is a bit fuzzy, but when you first when into Zeal's throne room, didnt the Prophet say something like, "These are the trouble makers I warned you about" or something like that.  Although I don't know if the Masamune would have hinted to that or not.

Zaperking

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« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2005, 11:24:41 pm »
Magus wouldn't not have ever thought that Melchior died... Because Melchior was the last Zealian that Janus was around before they were ported.

A Zealian at the Last Village says something like :
"Melchior tried to save Janus from a dark vortex" or something.

Melchior seems close to Janus, even in the Earthbound Agetty incident.

Though Magus never mentions anything about Melchior, I can kinda see that if Melchior would have tried to save Janus, Melchior was like a guardian to him, just like the other guru's were to Schala.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2005, 01:40:47 am »
Why wouldn't he have thought that? After all, he never saw Melchior again.