Rather than further pollute other threads and discussions pertaining with my direct distaste for Cross, and branches of posts pertaining to that, I'm going to compile "what I am talking about" into this single thread discussion. While I don't think this is the right placing for this, I don't see anywhere else in particular that is better suited. Regardless, I’ll be breaking this down into some of my greivences with Cross, and then a section on how my posts are being ‘evaded’, all tipped off with a conclusion to wrap together “what I’m talking about.” I'd also extend a welcome to anyone else wanting to throw in their 2¢ (or more) in this regard as I think that the addition of direct links between CT and CC manifest from CTDS brings into further light my biggest qualm with CC; that it weakens CT. Assuming of course that anyone else reads this, and lives o_O
I.
Take this quote I’ve picked off from another forum that I found on the research I’ve done pertaining to Kato and Cross.
“Chrono Cross was Masato Kato expressing his distaste for the original and the people he was originally forced to work with on CT by cheapening the original and forcing people to accept any sequel on his terms (he only got to write the 12000 BC scenario, hence the change from the rest of the game). Plain and simple. After years of pondering what went wrong, I've concluded it was just a very ego-driven project as opposed to one with any interest in what people liked about the original (hence, the relatively low number of people who like both games or at least feel strongly towards both). I'll go so far as to bet Radical Dreamers (the SNES gaiden) was based on events he had written for the game and had rejected by the scenario writers and was able to get made into a low-budget visual novel. And ironically, its' status as the original's sequel is probably the main thing that helped it achieve the success and positive feedback it did. Hey, that's why I bought my copy. I personally don't want to see the series continued under the same circumstances. Another Square-Enix (d'oh) collaboration with a similar team as the first? Sure. Another clash with Kato's ego and over-convoluted storytelling to tell a story of little substance? I wouldn't even bother reading the previews.” -GoldfishX
I agree with the sentements there, and utilize that quote because it shortens many of my own sentiments. Much of Cross is an ego driven project derived from his distaste for the Trigger project. Kato’s interview from Procyon studio reveals this painful experience for him, and he further relates what he thinks of his work on Radical Dreamers, a project made from ‘his own interests’; “I mean... there's no way that I could allow people to play that game. I read my scripts from back then, and it's embarassing.”
The driving factor of the game, or how the plot works out, is the elaborate plan all schemed together to work out by a single person, Masato “Gaspar” Kato. While players ‘could’ make particular choices in regards to various decisions within the game, the most dramatic ones actually have little impact on the game itself, or the characters ability to make changes, because they’ve already been decided how they’re going to occur. This is made evident even further in how characters end up being ‘uncharacteristic’ of themselves. Example: The transformation from “Schala” to Kid (and her nihilistic attitude) is more the manifestation of Kato’s own emotion, (something he can't kill...) rather than continued character development from ‘nature’ and ‘nuture’. Authorship liberties taken for the convenience of his plot, rather than utilizing developed characterization to create a story. It's poor writting gimmicks rather than skillful tools used for the craft. (Gimmicks like these are used to blow out any child's story into a full length feature film that has a chance to make money, even before people finish turning the pages.) Plot drives are forces of action, rather than choices, or even pressed choices with consequences. Additionally, just about any good point of Cross is the result of intentional implementation of gameplay success for the purposes of just selling the game. It’s not meant to leave a legacy (or even continue it) be great, or have an impact comparable to its predicesor, (or any other story impression that an author has his heart in is trying to achieve) its simply there to sell the game. Nowadays I can buy a "good" appliance, but many are actually designed to have a limited product life so one has to buy the product again, rather than years ago when something was pricer, but its lasted a long time. Granted, certain technologies are actually better, but its sales gimmicks and not so much quality craftsmanship. Cross is the same boat.
Giving the reviews that ‘trusted’ game reviewers have placed on Cross, it is a 'good game’. Considering the regards that people have for it, in how its perceived in relation to other games, it effectively has no lasting impression on its own that is noteworthy. Despite claims that its story is deep or its characters blah blah blah, it doesn't recieve any form of recognition to demonstrate this. It isn’t a “best game” or “top” anything. Heck, its not even a consideration in gamefaqs dated poll, which is a sizeble expression of many peoples opinions. So these ‘great scores’ this game receives actually aren’t an indication of how ‘good’ is it, but rather just another persons’ expressed opinion, one that apparently isn’t shared on a scale outside of the bandwagon. This sentement seems to be shared by the producers of the game title largely because they not only haven’t introduced a continuation of the game (despite claiming they have interests and plans to do so) and instead continue to flub their previous success in our face several times. People accept various faults from Cross as “because Kato said so” rather than “because it developed that way.” Its like the Chinese food of video game stories, tastes great to some, but overall just doesn't stick with you. So is it 'bad' because its 'not as good?' It is when its dragging down another product with it.
From a writing standpoint in comic books, they fully allow fandom to become part of the stories, and explicitily rip ideas and sell them back to their source, because its ‘their product.’ Well why the hell doesn’t square do something similar to that then? Well, after years of hostile resistance to this, I’d rather say they are in the re-re-re-release of CT. Contrary to previous sentiments the production teams shared in regards to connections between Trigger and Cross, we’re sold added content pretty much derived from the fanbase, rather than premeditated stories.
Example? Compare
“but Porre had some kind of intervention or help originating outside of the original flow of history. But if I start to explain this, it will take me a long time to finish, so I'll stop myself here. (laughs) As it doesn't directly have anything to do with the story of Cross, we cut the details out of the game. “
to
Dalton: “I’ll raise the greatest army the world has ever seen in Porre...”
Yea, that certianly took a long time to finish. The changes made from one game to be a totally different experience that isn’t a sequel (Cross is Cross and not Trigger 2) aren’t true anymore, or that rather the particular image needed for product sales isn't being used anymore, and instead another is used in its place. We’re simply being shoveled crap, and taking it all in the name of Chrono. ‘Good’ is a comparative stament between multiple options, as in ‘good’ ‘better’ ‘best’
Cross is a ‘good’ game because its designed to utilize the best tools Square had at the time to make a product designed to sell, despite prior staffing greviences. It’s like Joe the Camel saying smoking, or cigarettes, are ‘good’. Its a ‘good’ by appearances; under the gilding, is a load of literal crap that is corroding its surroundings. Kato says is could be better ("Looking back on the works, I still get this feeling that there were a lot of things that were still left undone though") and "I won't say the "best" Chrono."
Frankly, I feel this is a decent enough start for now (I can always say more in direct connection to the rebuttals that may come) and would now change my focus to how my previous thread posts where evaded.
II.
1. The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake, Page 3.
I didn't ask about graphics gameplay or music. How can anyone think its a fair comparison to weigh a game that you didn't finish in comparison to one you practically worship? Oh course there isn't going to be comparable characterization to you if you didn't see it in action! That's a trite post. And here begins the evasion " I don't need to explain how awesome Cross is." You're talking to a skeptic who doesn't share your opinions, so yes, yes you do need to explain how 'awesome' it is, otherwise you're just dodging my points.
2. Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course) page 16
Not a single responce even indirectly tied to anything I said here. That’s evasion.
3. Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course) page 19
Bring out my own arguements? I did and they were ignored (evaded) I’m not the one posting a picture (that you didnt’ even make) and continuing to point at it as the ‘ultimate’ of any particular arguement.
4. “” “” page 20
So apprently refuting your ‘facts’ and demonstrating that they aren’t ‘facts’ (at least in how the given information is used) is rambling about the sig?* Its two mentions, and not even lengthy in comparison (particularly to my habits) Unless you count other posters, (who guess what, I AM NOT) then that is hardly dwelling on or rambling about anything. Its the basis of an actual discussion/arguement, one that’s once again, evaded. There isn’t anything else in that post to “look at” when all there is is “point as sig” which is the part I was dealing with in relation to fallacies. Context, use it.
5. “” “” page 21
I wasn’t the one talking about character development. I didn’t participate in that stream of posts. If you’re refering at this time to the mention of comparisons that I issued in a different thread, you still missed the context. Failure to deal with, refute or otherwise comment on “what I am talking about” in the context it is being talked about is evasion.
*what's 1.5 million sales compared to 2 millions sales in two months, let alone 3 rereleases? or heck, what's 1.5 millions sales if no one has anything exceptional to say about it? Xenogears release sale is 1.19 million copies, and it actually is considering the "best" or "top" compared to other video games. Super Mario RPG is 1.47, and again, its cited to be 'best' and even 'desired'.
If you don’t or can’t understand that much, then don’t act like you’re “not afraid to go in a heavy discussion about it.” When I get 'heavy' its more than just graphics and cute character designs.
