Author Topic: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]  (Read 20265 times)

FouCapitan

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2009, 12:12:05 am »
Why would Magus help Dalton?  He hated him AFIAK.  He took his sister away, forced her to help her mother after Mt. Woe, constantly rode his ass when he was doing his thing as the prophet, and frankly Magus wouldn't care less what Crono and the others did in Guardia post ending.

Magus only helped others for accomplishing 2 goals, killing Lavos, and helping his sister (Radical Dreamers for example).

Zergplex

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2009, 12:29:35 am »
Why would Magus help Dalton?  He hated him AFIAK.  He took his sister away, forced her to help her mother after Mt. Woe, constantly rode his ass when he was doing his thing as the prophet, and frankly Magus wouldn't care less what Crono and the others did in Guardia post ending.

Magus only helped others for accomplishing 2 goals, killing Lavos, and helping his sister (Radical Dreamers for example).

I believe they are referring to the amnesiac Magus wandering around Guardia circa 1000AD as of the end of CT:DS. He wouldn't know Dalton, but Dalton would certainly know him.

utunnels

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2009, 03:42:35 am »
 :picardno
Magus: Who am I...I can't remember a thing...
Dalton: Listen up, Bro. You are once called Gilbert, and that red haired monkey is the one who burnt your house and robbed your cookies. Let's revenge them for you.

So they had a deal, and was about to conquer Guardia with Porrean  Army.

Magus: ... (a red flash in his eye)
Dalton: ...? What's the prob'?
Magus: Ahh, I remember everything now!
Dalton: !!!
Magus: I'm King Dalton. Grrr, how dare you little insect deceive me!!
Dalton: Ha...what are you talking abou...
           Ahhhhh!

And so Magus left with his scythe dripping blood...

Magus_Brokenhart

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2009, 04:43:24 am »
As much as you're joking Tunnel, that would actually be interesting! Magus thinking he's Dalton, and being the ruler of Porre!

Anyways, I was dreaming about Chrono Trigger (Something I actually do quite often, being my favorite series of all time and all), and in Chrono Break, Guile becomes a main character. They show how Dalton and an armored creature took down Crono and Marle. Later on in the game, Guile breaks the armor, showing Magus. Turns out that the game falsely made us think that Guile was the Fiendlord all along! And then came the zombies with Nemesis and Mr. X...But it gets too weird from there. >_>

mav

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2009, 03:26:19 pm »
...this thread has done so much for the question at hand.

Assuming the amnesiac Magus is not Guile, then it's completely plausible for Dalton and Magus to have joined forces, but if Guile is the amnesiac Magus, then I'd hardly expect him to have helped Dalton with the fall of Guardia. I mean, Guile is completely lax and no one seems to know anything about the bloke. If he played a very strong hand in bringing down Guardia, someone would have to know--anyone--and he wouldn't just slip away willy-nilly; he'd be pursued, followed, praised: something would happen. I simply cannot believe that Guile would ruin a kingdom and just wander off like a mindless child.

Even if we examine Magus's role in the Mystic War, we clearly see that although he played a prominent (and possibly unseen) role, he had desires that he wanted fulfilled; and Guile/amnesiac Magus would still have to have some cause or desire and the fall of Guardia would either be a means to achieve that cause or the effect of his cause. Guile/amnesiac Magus, even as much as he likes to seek adventure, just couldn't have been a key figure in the Fall and vanish as if nothing happened...it's just too unlikely for him to escape unscathed, unknown, and unseen.

Now, if amnesiac Magus is not Guile, then it's completely possible for him to have played some role, but fuck if I know what it is...

Magus_Brokenhart

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2009, 05:42:09 pm »
Magus will do anything to regain his memories, and Dalton would show off his magic and offer to help him in exchange for his servitude. It has already been shown that Magus will not go above sacrificing others to get what he wants.

V_Translanka

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2009, 09:38:21 pm »
Magus uses you, you do not use Magus. :lol:

They live happily ever after.

A fine ending...

But it is still strange Porrean use guns and cannons, did we see then in Zeal?

I think it's possible they 1) developed it on their own (it's not terribly advanced technology after all), 2) got them from Lucca (the receipt could be proof of this), and/or 3) Luccia had a hand in it...this seems plausible since she worked with Lucca.

mav

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #97 on: January 11, 2009, 09:55:26 pm »
Aye, with Luccia's brain and things like the Dragon Tank and guns already in development, creating larger-scale artillery isn't out of the question.

Magus will do anything to regain his memories, and Dalton would show off his magic and offer to help him in exchange for his servitude. It has already been shown that Magus will not go above sacrificing others to get what he wants.
Magus will do anything to regain his memories? Now, I haven't played CTDS, but I wasn't aware that he showed any indication that he even wanted to regain his memories. But like I said earlier, Magus could definitely use the Fall to advance his own goals, but alas, we don't even know what those goals are, or if he even has goals. Are we assuming he has a new goal? Or that he has completely new desires? It doesn't seem like he'd gain anything from the Fall at this point.

utunnels

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #98 on: January 11, 2009, 10:27:24 pm »
I think it's possible they 1) developed it on their own (it's not terribly advanced technology after all), 2) got them from Lucca (the receipt could be proof of this), and/or 3) Luccia had a hand in it...this seems plausible since she worked with Lucca.
Before CT DS, I used to think it was future technology...
Yeah, but I think you are right, Guardia already had Dragon Tank, and Lucca had already invented robots and machines, so why not guns?

Magus_Brokenhart

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #99 on: January 11, 2009, 10:50:23 pm »
In the new ending, Magus stated his new goal; Regaining his memories. "I must.".

mav

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2009, 11:15:05 pm »
Ah, ah. My mistake, you are indeed correct--he states that there's something he needed to do/find and that he must find a way to remember what it was. I guess you could say he'll do anything to regain his memories, but it'd be more accurate to say he's determined to do anything to remember what he needed to do/find. Either way, if he played a hand in the fall, he and Dalton must have been extremely elusive--as no one in Cross mentions them in the slightest.

utunnels

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2009, 11:23:29 pm »
I think it was Magus himself that want to forget his past and start newly. After he really did that, he wanted to regain his memory.
So if regaining his memory resulted the very same Magus, it is really pointless...
Yeah, if it was not officially said that Guile was not Magus, he'll be a good choice.

Magus_Brokenhart

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #102 on: January 12, 2009, 01:07:10 am »
Well, he doesn't remember his pain, but does remember that he needed to do something important. It will only be pointless once he remembers. Or maybe in remembering, he'd feel as if he started anew. Or maybe the new purpose he found was enigma...

FouCapitan

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2009, 01:24:51 am »
Well just to state it as bluntly as possible.

I don't think Magus had anything to do with the fall of Guardia.  Mainly because it just seems to be a poorly written plot idea.  Not inconcievable, not unlikely, but poorly written.  Magus becomes evil incarnate to achieve his goals, finally reaches a pinnacle and fails, only to wipe clean his slate and....become evil incarnate again?  Redundant.

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Re: Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]
« Reply #104 on: January 12, 2009, 01:53:28 am »
Yeah, I think it's necessary for him to go against his old ideals so that he can really face Schala when he finds her again without any regrets about his past (or w/o her seeing him as a monster, anyways)...