Dalton (Post-DS Revision) [DS Spoilers Included]

[mav]

These actions were done only to secure power. By leading the Mystics and becoming their leader, Magus probably was able to draw upon all the magic knowledge available at the time, as well as obtain his own fortress with all the amenities necessary to summon the Lavos. This important tidbit was left out of the NA translation.

That's what the Encyclopedia says, I personally believe that Magus just capitalized on the growing tension to further his own agenda. By utilizing the Mystics, he had slave labor to make his castle, to gather resources, etc.

[Magus_Brokenhart]

Hm. Without memories, Magus would be as a child. Not an idiot, but in the dark.  If you don't know anyone, including yourself, and you see a guy who can use magic as strong, or nearly as strong as you can, you'd have some high hopes in that person. I'd see Dalton as the type of guy who would manipulate Magus into doing his bidding. Perhaps help him fight Crono and Marle, then betray him once he has served his purpose. Kinda like Lynx and Viper. People seem to need an explanation as to how Dalton would win, this is just an unbased theory that would help. Although Dalton did own the team after the fall of Crono. He aslo easily abducted Schala, who is supposed to be powerful, so he's no slouch.

[V_Translanka]

Do we know how much Magus forgets?

And does pwnt=sucker punch? Not to mention after that, they totally give him better than they got...

I never asked for an explanation, myself, he has the Magic (especially after the Vortex) & other knowledge of Zealian technology. I just think it's a stretch to call him a 'strategic mind' as has been said.

[mav]

Hm. Without memories, Magus would be as a child. Not an idiot, but in the dark.  If you don't know anyone, including yourself, and you see a guy who can use magic as strong, or nearly as strong as you can, you'd have some high hopes in that person. I'd see Dalton as the type of guy who would manipulate Magus into doing his bidding. Perhaps help him fight Crono and Marle, then betray him once he has served his purpose. Kinda like Lynx and Viper. People seem to need an explanation as to how Dalton would win, this is just an unbased theory that would help. Although Dalton did own the team after the fall of Crono. He aslo easily abducted Schala, who is supposed to be powerful, so he's no slouch.

He's no slouch indeed, but I just can't see Magus being naive enough to blindly follow Dalton. Sure he'd be impressed with Dalton at first, and perhaps he might follow him temporarily, but that's only assuming Magus doesn't know anything about Dalton's reputation at this point. If Dalton's a powerful mastermind, somebody would at least mention it in passing, right?

I've always seen Magus as more manipulative than Dalton...and even without his memories, Magus still has personality--and that's where his manipulative nature comes from.

[maggiekarp]

Keep in mind that while she was a powerful magician, Schala had an unbelievably weak will. Before you go saying "Noo Schala-sama is so noble and wise and with a beautiful spirit and such a tragic blah blah blah, " remember that even though she knew the power of Lavos was dangerous, even though she knew her mother had gone crazy, even though she had her creepy little brother's prophecy going on, she still did her magic summoning bit for God knows what reason. Maybe she just loves being popular? Bah... well, anyway, her submissiveness shows nothing about Dalton, really.

Of course I think the whole Fall of Guardia thing is mind-numbingly stupid, so take my insight with a grain of salt. I'm only ever gonna give canonical "Why this shouldn't have happened" stuff.

[utunnels]

Keep in mind that while she was a powerful magician, Schala had an unbelievably weak will. Before you go saying "Noo Schala-sama is so noble and wise and with a beautiful spirit and such a tragic blah blah blah, " remember that even though she knew the power of Lavos was dangerous, even though she knew her mother had gone crazy, even though she had her creepy little brother's prophecy going on, she still did her magic summoning bit for God knows what reason. Maybe she just loves being popular? Bah... well, anyway, her submissiveness shows nothing about Dalton, really.

Of course I think the whole Fall of Guardia thing is mind-numbingly stupid, so take my insight with a grain of salt. I'm only ever gonna give canonical "Why this shouldn't have happened" stuff.

Schala's personality is strange to me... just as Lucca says in her letter in CC, Schala was the complete opposite of Kid, so quiet and gentle.
But I don't think she's just quiet...

And according to what Kid says in RD: there's another herself, who is alwaying watching quietly, no matter how stupid her actions are. Yeah, she really did nothing when she should....

[maggiekarp]

It's sad that the Zealian's idea of "growing a pair" means bottling up their good qualities and wearing a tough guy mask. Although Magil at least sounded like he was getting over that, and Kid was nice when Serge was competent...

...BUT NOW MY WORLD IS DALTON-DID-IT! Ugh! UURGH!

Did we get anywhere on the "Lynx helped Dalton out and then offed him at the last minute" theories?

[utunnels]

I don't think Lynx existed at that time...

[mav]

Indeed...only by 1010ad did Wazuki even attempt to drown Serge...so "Lynx" really wasn't around in 1005ad, the year Guardia fell.

And if you ask me Schala and Janus both have their character flaws--I'm sure they're both linked to some kind of psychological trauma brought about by the death of their father and Queen Zeal's decent into madness. Schala seems unable to disobey her mother and has no will of her own, and Janus becomes a self-centered brat and grows to manipulate the people around him to further his own agenda and desires.

[Sintu]

Keep in mind that while she was a powerful magician, Schala had an unbelievably weak will. Before you go saying "Noo Schala-sama is so noble and wise and with a beautiful spirit and such a tragic blah blah blah, " remember that even though she knew the power of Lavos was dangerous, even though she knew her mother had gone crazy, even though she had her creepy little brother's prophecy going on, she still did her magic summoning bit for God knows what reason. Maybe she just loves being popular? Bah... well, anyway, her submissiveness shows nothing about Dalton, really.

Of course I think the whole Fall of Guardia thing is mind-numbingly stupid, so take my insight with a grain of salt. I'm only ever gonna give canonical "Why this shouldn't have happened" stuff.

Didn't she do it because she partially wanted to? 

"It was I, after all, who wished it-wished from the depths of my sadness and despair that all that was would be erased."

What Schala says after the Dream Devourer fight.  Plus, if I remember correctly, she says something similar in Chrono Cross.

[ZealKnight]

Well here I would like to point out if we are trying to figure out if Dalton had any type of help I don't think it matters I think he was the second best engineer/scientist in Zeal. He originally built the Ocean Palace after Belthazar left, He built the Black Bird, He added those lasers onto the Epoch.

[Sintu]

Well here I would like to point out if we are trying to figure out if Dalton had any type of help I don't think it matters I think he was the second best engineer/scientist in Zeal. He originally built the Ocean Palace after Belthazar left, He built the Black Bird, He added those lasers onto the Epoch.

It's certainly possible that he did it on his own, but his comical nature and past record against the Chrono Trigger team makes it seem pretty implausible. 

He had the Daltonites at one point and they weren't able to stop everyone.  Porre's army would have to be bigger and better than the Daltonites, especially considering Guardia has an army of its own (even though it may be inferior technologically, it's still something to consider).

[Acacia Sgt]

Actually, Dalton wasn't building them. He was more likely overseeing the construction.

Likewise, Belthasar didn't built them, just design them.

And as for the Epoch, you can see while on the Blackbird how he just orders the Daltonites to work while he just stands there.

[mav]

I'm sure Porre's army is much larger than Dalton's group of cronies. Even though we didn't see Porre growing a military in CT, by CC they seemed to have reached some hefty proportions. We can safely assume that by the Fall of Guardia, Porre had either grown a large military, formed alliances, or hit some kind of technological growth, or a combination of those three possibilities. Regardless, they nailed Guardia. They nailed 'em hard. I agree that Dalton seemed to have some technological know-how...and I'm sure the technology he was accustomed to in Zeal surpassed 1000ad's by a good margin. With that technology, innovation, knowledge, and mindset, he probably brewed up a very formidable force that Guardia was under-prepared for.

Although, like some have pointed out, Dalton didn't necessarily create any of the technology he used...but he did oversee the construction, and that may have given him some upper hand...Perhaps with enough labor and a group of engineers, he could have given Porre a huge technological advantage.

[maggiekarp]

Didn't she do it because she partially wanted to? 

"It was I, after all, who wished it-wished from the depths of my sadness and despair that all that was would be erased."

What Schala says after the Dream Devourer fight.  Plus, if I remember correctly, she says something similar in Chrono Cross.

Her Rei-like desire to turn everything into nothing came more from her guilt and despair that she caused the downfall of her kingdom, though I wouldn't put it past her to want to destroy it in the first place rather than have to stand up for what's right by herself for once.

Anyway, Dalton's cronies mention in Trigger that they hated working for him. This to me is definitive proof that Dalton couldn't get power on his own, unless the mayor of Porre really is that dense.